Still not justifying the deal???

Justifying a deal is different than making a case about whether a person is worth the money. I don't think anyone can justify why players make tens of millions of dollars playing a kids game.

What someone is worth is much simpler to figure out. A person is worth whatever they get paid. If a player is paid x $'s, they are worth it to whoever paid it. Just like anything else, the market dictates worth. Is a small piece of wood, some metal hardware and paint worth $30? Sure, because people are willing to pay that for a custom wooden plug. But, it doesn't mean that there won't be people complaining about it costing too much.

i don't care what he makes- they're all overpaid imho. is he an average player- no he isn't. hits .300, gold glove fielder, steal 50 bases, drive in 80, cause picthers headaches when on base. i think he's going to be a great addition to this team and flourish with this lineup and ballpark.

My age is irrelevant but you are not much older. Pay attention to the game for the next decade and you will see for yourself.
Also, no player is worth 20 million but thats what it takes to build a team.

One more thing, (in regards to your condescending comments: my age, ever hear of these guys, and most ridiculous statetment you've ever heard, and I'm quoting you I think: If you don't have something good to say, shut your pie hole!

Thank You....

First off forget about the money. That is what good ball players make nowadays. Not 1968 anymore. Crazy?, yes. Would I like to see every team on an even playing field ? sure. Your not paying so who cares.:confused: They are still under the luxury tax.
Second why are you so against them trying to better themselves in the incredibly competitive division they are in. They have not even step foot on the field yet and already you are saying they blew it. Let them play the season out and then at the end of the year see what transpired and if it didn't work out then hey you got a legitimate gripe but to get so bent out of shape for something that hasn't even happened, actually playing a game, is nuts. Let it play out and see. I like the trade so far but I may be disgruntled by years end.Sometimes it is as important to keep him out of your competitions hands.
As far as developing your own players. Having a good farm system and developing young players there is as good for getting established players as it is for getting them on the field for the home team.

Larry, I had some time this morning so I looked up some numbers for you. I think most of us "older" folks look back fondly on the old days of baseball and the great players of our youth. What we don't realize is that their numbers are great for that time, but compared with the "steroid era", they aren't so eye popping.

Aaron - 8 seasons with 40+ hr's and none over 50 in 23 years.
Jackson - 1 season with 40+ and none with 50 in 22 years.
Maris - 1 season with 61 hr's and only 1 more with 30+ in 12 years.
Mantle - 4 seasons with over 40 hr's, with 2 of those being 50+ in 18 years.
Mays - 6 seasons with 40+ with 2 of them over 50 in 22 years.
Schmidt - 3 seasons with 40+ and 0 over 50 in 18 years.
Williams - 1 year with over 40 and 0 over 50 in 19 years.

I wouldn't say that any of these guys were "routinely" hitting 40 or 50 home runs per year. But all of these guys (with the exception of Maris) were considered great because they also did other things well, like running the bases and playing the field.

Forget about the money aspect and look at what has been lost/gained.

Lost- Martinez and Beltre

Gained- Gonzalez and Crawford

Both players gained are better than the ones lost(IMO) but the bigger question is by how much? Is Gonzalez significantly better than Martinez? Is Crawford significantly better than Beltre.

This is where the debate should be focused.

While I do think the club has improved, I do not know that it has significantly. Bottom line will be and always has been:

1.- Can they stay healthy as a group?
2.- Will enough players(especially the mid-level ones) have above average/career years to win another championship.

Last season was lost to injuries and the fact that no one went above and beyond yet they still won almost 90 games.

Don't know about the above and beyond....we got way more than we expected out of Beltre...if we didn't lose Youk and Pedroia for the rest of the season and Martinez for a substantial part of the season.....we would have probably made the playoffs.

there's also a lot to consider about the fact that Crawford will not be terrorizing us on the base paths....especially since it looks like we are going w/ Tek.....he just can't throw anybody out anymore.....now we can use him to terrorize Posada. :hee:

Gonzales and Beltre are a wash....there stats are pretty much identical. But Beltre would be looking for Big Dollars this year and we are only paying $6 mil to Gonzales....next year we may have to pony up for him though as he hits free agency.

Now Crawford's offense was far superior to Martinez. 90 rbi vs. 79 and 110 Runs vs 69 for a net gain of 52 runs for the year....all on the 2nd best offense in the league last year. And then there's Stolen bases where Crawford had 47 and Matinez had 1.....big improvement there for sure.

I'm liking the team for next year....they are in the toughest division in baseball......as long as they stay healthy we should be sitting pretty. Tampa bay has lost a lot this year....and so far the Yank-mees haven't done anything to improve over last year.

During their prime years they were producing numbers players today only dream about and they were doing it again pitching that was tough day in and day out and makes todays pitchers look like the molly coddled cry babies that they are!!! I did not mean every year.....but I know the stats John.....by heart!!! Also...every one of those players you mentioned........multiple MVP awards for each one of them!!!!

All the guys you mention were great players and are in the Hall of Fame, with the exception of Maris. Crawfords career average is either better than or within 9 points of all of them except Williams. He also plays in the AL East, which has a lot of very good pitchers. I'm not sure that the pitching back in the "old days" was that much better than it is now, either.

Is it a personal thing you have against Crawford?

I give up....you guys enjoy!:) We will talk more in July I am sure!

Larry, if I get tix to the DD suite at Fenway this summer, I'm taking you as my guest. The only catch is that you have to wear a Crawford jersey. :grins:

Larry I believe you would never change your mind about anything once you set your mind to it, including water boarding , so I guess we will just have to wait till next oct. and see if you were right. Peace.

HOW BOUT THEM BRUINS :biglaugh:

You are a true sox fan...after what we've been through (except the last 6 yrs), cynicism rules.

Peace out. (& go Pats!)