LOL like all those catch and release fish the netters throw back. more in a day than rod n reel coastwide in a year. Oh thats right those pics posted last fall were all fake and made up just to make the poor commecials look bad.LOL Same old bull to just do nothing then moan an groan about the fishing.

Here we goooooooooooo..............

What do you mean here we goo. It never stopped. some of us practice what we preach and stick to our guns.If it wasn't for that there wouldn't be any stripers around now.gamefish status and one fish 36 in.

....."Hey Mal, just flush a couple from the marsh...."we can't get there from hera"
 

...no scientific data to support the amount of yoyo fatalities--regulation to prohibit use of is not substanciated(reg should not be even introduced based on the lack of research in this area)-introduced on hearsay......do a study before even considering enacting:fishin:

......and there is plenty of data on catch & release by rod & reel--with a healthy percentaage killed-time for scientific study to evaluate the light tackle as an important negative multican of death to C&R..:love

........multiple use is the only fair way to utilize the striped bass resource.....food & recreation..........if comm & recs do not managed to SB resource to provide their respective utilization....they have nothing-both groups are not stupid.....:confused:.

oh ya...Never a big fan of industrial fishing....here
 

.........the floaters now are being applied to other commercial fisherman bag down in the mid-atlantic--and/or off loaded to other boats being counted towards the cap..............however I've avicated that striped bass commercial fish be caught by rod & reel as the primary tool........coastwide.....LOL to ya all :biglaugh::love::buds:

I'd tather see rod n reel as that is a heck of a lot more selective than nets are.I worked on a gill netter as a kid. If it was in the net is was dead.What we couldn't keep we stuck and through over the side. Not many swam away.But I'd still rather see gamefish with one fish limit. Size can be worked out.Plus everyone with a comercial ticket fishing for whatever should have to fill out a tax sheat every year. no matter how few fish they sell.I sell plugs,flies and rods and I pay my taxes.I pay my taxes they should have to pay theirs too. Ron

Are you really trying to defend yoyo'ing?

A regulation that is an attempts to correct an alleged mortality needs a study
 

........ANY fisheries regulation-as it relates to fish mortality- demands/needs a comprehensive scientific study before it shall be implemented........otherwise, a reglatory dictator can -without justification-enact a regulation without due proceess....this will start a a bad administrative process----that will--beyond this issue--bite all fisherman in the butt....:err:

LOL lets see just how many years are they gonna study this problem this time? seems to be the same problem they've been studying since the 50's.Like before study forever so nothing gets done till it's way too late.Never yet saw a scientist in the surf or in a boat studying. Always at a computer.

The Dominoes will fall..........LOL
 

LOL-gotta give the fisheries bean counters something to do LOL,,,,,,,,,,,next it will be single hook only on all artificial lures--so the catch & release boys(&girls) can release their percent of dead fish with cleaner mouths,,,not shreded by treble hook plugs(this does not apply to the small percentage of C&R anglers using single barbless)...the biological reference points in force by ASMFC will prevent a total collasp of the SB population----enough of this BS LOL,,,,,,,gotta go pack up my LL Bean boots to get resoled-for the 4th time.....yep ya northerners can make a mean boot.....:love:

They're made outside the country now.No more made in maine bean boots.

You are correct trapper - but I think the intent of this proposed reg is meant to enforce banning an unethical method of fishing. How could anyone use a bait that has a high potential to kill untargeted species such as other fish, marine birds, etc., when coming unattached from your line. Hard to come up with an appropriate analogy but if I knew that every time an eel came off my hook it would be fatal to anything that ate it - I would stop using eels.
If you can't get fishermen to voluntarily clean up their act you have to make a law. Unfortunatly society can't depend on the use of common sense.

DZ

Round & Round we go.........
 

.....circle YoYo-reminds me of ranch names out Montana/Utah way.....we can discuss a variety of topics....from weights inside baits...C & R mortality...seals wearing a face full trebles from pencils, swimmers, and bait rigs....breaking off lead jigs in fish mouths etc. etc...all important----all issues to be considered......now for some stuff of equal importance! Bean rubber bottom boots not manufactured in Maine WT% ! Here is one equal grounds---National Biscuit Company-A.K.A "Nabisco" an all American company--like apple pie & Chevrolet.......Fig Newtons are baked in Mexico(nothing against our friends from the south of USA).....I'm enjoying a stack of them...notice the net weight of the packages is shrinking(like most food stuffs)---and in tiny print Made In Mexico.....ahh! Circles Yo Yo's and imported LL Boots & Fig Newtons from Mexico. We certainly live in complex, forever changing world..........:uhuh:,,,,,good luck & good health to you all:buds:

--after thoughs---Pandora's reglatory fish'n box is open.......
 

......special hooks-limits on lead use-next in line is treble hooks banned-eels on endangered species list(better make ALL those rubba eels ya all use biodegradable/non toxic--as they are next in line by enviro do gooders....watch out for that Plover....oh the seals are cute........then-MPA's......many elementary schools have approved curicullum(sp?)-teaching against any form of fishing(the fish feels pain etc)-fishing overall is unethical---just wait 'til these kids get into the game of natural resource managers----fishing as we know today-with it.'s moderate freedom it still provides----will be a thing of the past...one surburban neighborhood's application of herbicides, fungicides, chemical fertilizer--no doubt--kills more SB than a bunch of C & R ers & Yo Yo.--it is nice to point fingers around......heading in the direction of a classic case of winning the battle and loosing the war........:hs:

God, you make me want to get a rope and start looking for a big tree.
:hang:

Got several oaks to choose from...
 

.....I'll try to upload pics of several oaks out back:jump1:

Too bad the american chestnut is gone, now that would be a tree to swing from,:)

You have me sooooooo confused. What the hell are you trying to say???
Everything is bad, nothing is bad, Fig Newtons are bad, Nabisco is Good, Chevy is bad, Yo-yoing is bad Yo-yoing is good. I don't understand any of your posts.

Yes but...

This does make a lot of sense. If you need further explanation head to the Mint Bar in Sheridan, Wyoming.

-spence

Just remember anything custom made here hurts the imports.Rod,flies,plugs,jigs,clothing-rain gear +shirts-and everything else.

REALITY CHECK...the following is public record.

DMF DID NOT INITIATE THIS RULEMAKING...Major citizen user groups with members (on this board) started both of these actions. DMF took "petitions" to the MA Marine Fisheries Commission and the Commission decided to ask the public for input.

According to a presentation by DMF's Dr. Mike Armstrong at the MSBA meeting last week....


The MV Striped Bass & Bluefish Committee "Petitioned" DMF to ban the fishing method known as "YOYO".

The Cape Cod Charter Boat Association "Petitioned" DMF to mandate circle hook use on all natural bait.


A few factoids from the Q&A at MSBA you might want to hear...

Q. Under the YoYo language would an egg sinker or weight stuffed inside a rigged eel be legal? A. If not attached to the line...then NOT LEGAL.

Q. would circle hooks be required when fishing with Sand Eels and Sea Worms? A. YES

Q. Would circle hooks be required when fishing live Bunker and Mackerel? A. Yes

Q. Would circle hooks be required on a high low bait rig? A. Yes

Q. Is an offset Circle a legal circle hook? A. NO

Q. Is and "Octopus" circle a legal circle? A. NO

Q. Is a circle hook required on the end of a Tube & Worm lure? A. NO

I know, if you can't cross their eyes a little what fun is it...

Maybe if I let the fish swallow the Eel, and swims away just right....and I keep just the right pressure....the Eel will pull out of it's gut....the hook will rotate just right... Spare me.

Patrick's right about the Circle hook proposal - it did come from the Cape Cod Charter Boat Association. It was a reaction to the ridiculous # of dead short fish that were floating during the month long eel bite at P-town during the 2009 season.

I personally think circles are even more effective than J's (again, from my boat that doesn't count here) - but it is funny to see my Father fish circles - he's been using J's for so long, he can't possible help himself from setting the hook, no matter how hard he tries.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I fished circles for tarpon in Florida and it was really difficult to get used to;"point the rod tip towards the fish and just reel".You literally can not set the hook with those things. I can see myself ignoring both of these ideas and taking my chances,circle high/low rigs? Tell me this is all a joke.

For a realistic idea that will have a positive impact on the fishery we need to reduce the catch to 1 at 36".Places like the canal where the recs have a sizable impact will be policed by the anglers themselves.

There are pleanty of charter boat captains who set no catch limits on their charters and allow a few extras for the sports,especially the nighttime variety. This also has to cease for the bass to have a chance to flourish.

......Being serious---interjected with a little bit of fun...
 

.....striper Maniac & I were interjecting some "spin off stuff"..I will start a thread where it belongs--me bad--in The Tavern section(i.e. not made in USA ETC.)

........and so called "Petitions" sent to DMF--in the yoyo review-is based on several accounts of fish being damaged-not done in a scientific survey...only based on very limited data...if the trend is to have the general public manage our fisheries....not based on a scientific survey-based on all the elements of proper established and accepted scientific research method....WE all are in trouble......then we should abolish all marine scientists employed by the MA DMF....and let the general public create & remove fishery regulations....

even worse, is when state asemblies take on the duty of Wildlife & Fisheries managment.....

..show me the data that is inrefutable evidence in the proper quanities...

.....my real interest is not so much in defending any methods engaged in a fishery...........please show me---in documented detail the results of extensive research to justify the said changes desired... show me that data from the scientist & managers...not limited data and fueled by emotion or passions that distain fishing methods not used by a particular group

.....the process of entering "Petitions" are part of the process..........we should have faith in the established system

....is easy to pack a hearing with large numbers of people trained to say similar views-not necessarily based on fact....

we are at a dangerous cross roads of who or whom becomes the fishery managers

Note aside: Good news---there has a susbtancial sucess in grafting American Chestnut trees to establish growth---some day--we can use them again for whatever purpose...

In the recent past-I spent 6 years -as a member on the ASMFC SB advisory panel.....I have a bit of knowledge how the reglatory system operates....I was not reapointed by The Gov. of our lovely state---when I expressed my concerns for a reduce coastwide harvest of beloved menhaden...and introduced the concept of establishing a seperate user catogorie fof the SB resource.......for Charter/headboat Com.-------a utlization of the resource that removes vast poundage of fish(striped bass)--for bucks$$.

For accurate accountability, the charter/ headboat fleet should be a separate designation. See adjective one, could make the argument that they are more commercial fishing than the guys selling fish out of their personal boats.

You mean by pissing and moaning online? :rotf2:

[QUOTE=Sea Dangles;

There are pleanty of charter boat captains who set no catch limits on their charters and allow a few extras for the sports,especially the nighttime variety. This also has to cease for the bass to have a chance to flourish.[/QUOTE]

Plenty Chris?

That's a bunch of HorseSh*t.
Like anything, there may be one or 2 scumbags out there, but the vast majority aren't about to risk their businesses and reputations to let a customer cheat.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You would be surprised at how well known some of these Captains are that are willing to take these risks. But a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch Jay.Certainly the majority are stewards of the resource so their future is insured.

What you are forgetting is the charter/headboat fleet is not "fishing". Their clients are fishing. No different than any other guy sitting on the shore or in his own or buddies boat. They just rent a ride and hire a guide.

Jon

Next people will tell you none of the charter guys keep stellwagon bass. :hihi:


There was a thread about this not too long ago. I'm sure you could find it searching commercial and charter. Very telling.

The captain is engaged in an act of fishing commerce, we are talking semantics here. I work part time on a charter boat. The goal all the time is to get the maximum we can keep . After all that is what we are getting " paid " to do. If I am rec fishing it's never about the maximum to take home, I hardly ever keep fish. So do most of the people I know that fish a bit. A couple a year suffice.

My point is to have 3 designations for Bass pie.

1- True commercial.
2- Charter/ headboat fishing.
3- Recreational.

1 and 2 are always going after max take, for money.
3 is not.

[QUOTE=trapperpierre;901510....then we should abolish all marine scientists employed by the MA DMF....and let the general public create & remove fishery regulations....
.[/QUOTE]


:fury:Yes!!!
Best idea in your rant!

What GOOD has the marine scientists done? The recent codfish debacle comes to mind and all that so called science.

As for the Yoyo issue. While not scientific, it is hardly limited data, it is pretty factual....Sometimes common sense will be a better guide than exhaustive, expensive, time consuming and error prone science based extrapolations by state-hired Phd's who don't fish.

This was based on the commercial fleet who, off of Gay Head a few years ago, were pounding fish with this approach. Many fish were lost and ingested the lead and associated wire rigs internally. (we know this because many were recaptured with infected sores and wire/metal rigs poking thru their stomachs. Most were sold with the lead inside) When you see them doing it, and the amount of gear lost that you KNOW is now inside the fish...this becomes a no-brainer.
ENOUGH WITH THE BAD SCIENCE!!! You guys can't manage yourself out of a paper bag with that so called science you tout, Frankly, it is laughable. Try some common sense and save us all a lot of money as well as a few fish.

YoYo was an effective fishing method. But the REAL mortality is ALOT more than what is currently assumed. Further there is a risk of long term lead contamination to the flesh which is consumed by humans.
Is the state saying that fish that have lead in their digestive systems for long periods, placed there by fishermen, is a good thing for the public who consume them? Why is the DMF trying to poison the fish-buying public with lead? If they OK this method that is effectively what they are saying, that they like the idea of lead inside fish, knowing it will be consumed by the public. I can see potential legal nightmare for the state when someone gets lead poisoning.


I support this yo-yo ban.

Circle hooks are a positive step as well.

It will be tougher to catch a tog with a circle hook and a green-crab however.


The bottom line is fishermen especially NE fishermen resist change of any kind...good bad or otherwise. You have to jam it down their throat with them kicking and screaming or you can not do anything. Just do it...Man up!

Short memories too, the cod collapse has been mentioned every year for damn near 20 years now.

When you hire a charter, you don't need your own fishing license. So the government has already decided that charter boats are in a distinct category of their own. Same goes for when they are fishing for BFT, separate designation from recreation fishermen.

You see, charters are on the water for one reason... commercial intent. They exchange a service for money. Now, I'm not saying that there is anything at all wrong with that. However, the industry as a whole should be held accountable for the total amount of fish they take. Enough grouping charter/head boats and *true* recreational fishermen into the same regulatory category for striped bass.

If you want to nitpick semantics, why was the captain that caught the bluefin tuna in their trawler nets the one under all the scrutiny? He wasn't the one tending the nets, the guys out on the deck were.

The Captain will only kill as many fish as the charter wants to kill (up to the limit). Some folks don't kill any, some only kill one or two, some kill the max. Its just like guys fishing from private boats or from shore.

Not the guys we take out. Fill the box almost all the time.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

On my own boat, when we had a 23.75 inch cod, that the enviro said was "MORE LIKE 23!", as the boat owner I got a written warning for "POSSESSION OF COD".. "< 24 inches" (classic)..

In other words, the boat owner takes the wrap, they didn't ask who's fish it was, it just went on me. Same as it probably does on a commercial boat or charter. Back to Stripers..

There are plenty of private boat fisherman out there killing as many as they can, it's not something limited to a charter or commercial boat.

Actually, the worst class of fisherman to the striper is probably the expert catch and release fly-fisherman that hooks 50 fish a day. They probably kill more fish per trip than an entire 6 pack charter that limits out. At least on the charter boat they target big fish, catching very few shorts, then usually call it a day once the limit is reached.

The thing about the license for charter boats is just to deal with ignorance. They provided a boat license so the charter captain doesn't have to orchestrate his fares buying their own license. I've never looked into it, but it might be possible for anybody to get one (though it costs a lot more).

I'm OK with that, most likely if you are chartering a boat you are a novice at best; it's hard enough making sure the experienced guys get the license before your first trip out.

There's no sense to designating the charter boats by themselves; again, they are just taxis that come with a tour guide. The recreational angler is the one doing the fishing.

Jon

Boat owner is responsible.

And correct me if I'm wrong, a 23.75" fish is smaller than 24".

Maybe my maths are bad and all, but I'm pretty sure!

Damn those EPs for enforcing a clearly defined regulation. Sounds like the EP was as reasonable as he could be. Certainly could have dished out a fine if he felt so inclined.