Best two years of striper fishing on the backside of cape cod we've ever seen.

Fish move.

The bait is the problem. Protect the bait, the stripers return.

Anecdotal evidence does not represent the whole population. Best fishing on the backside also happened right up to the collapse. Are you saying best two years ever, including the 1960's-early 1980's? Bait wasn't the problem in the 60's- 80's. Overfishing was. We have harvested more fish in total in recent years. It will lead to collapse, if it hasn't already. Fish move, but 10 years ago they moved, as well, yet were found up in down the coast spring through late fall.

PI

Last time >.your went to Golf & Photography ><<<>:love::grins:

How come ct isnt included?
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This is for all the guys who think the bass are healthy because they saw a miles-long school of them off the Cape this summer. You never judge the health of a fishery by the numbers of them in the center of their migratory range, at the middle of their migration period. There were schools like than back in the 80s, too. You go by the numbers at the end of their range, and the numbers of resident fish along their migratory route.

The tale of the tape is Maine. From more than 4 million, to less than 150,000, all in the space of 5 years.

But hey, I have other interests in my life besides fishing. So catch 'em up, boys, and keep on telling yourselves that NOAA can't count their own toes.

Yup us old farts don't know what we're talkin about LOL. No one has to listen. I remember some of the blitzes out along the Cape in the early 80's. loads of big fish. Went back home to Maine an nothing.Had a couple nice 50's back then but nothing in Maine.musta forgoten how to catch them again LOL.Don't do anything you'll learn the hard way.Like I said we CAN fix this if we do something now.But it takes all of us.not just the old farts.

I'm just a renaissance man.:uhuh:

There is one tournament that claims to have 3000 entries and a ten(10) fish limit. Don't know too much about that one up in MA. But that's not a catch and release thing I gather. If not, 30,000 bass is 30,000 bass.

Thankfully I'm just as happy chasing black sea bass, tog or fluke; but I do miss those days where your rod was bent all day with fat schoolies. If it gets so bad its not worth towing the boat to the launch, it will be time to sell and golf full time.

None of the people I fish with here is NH can understand where the last number came from. Since 2005 there has been a steady decrease in the catch with 2010 and 11 actually having big jumps down. Last season I was out 96 nights in NH and got about 20% of what I caught in 2005. Very few small fish from 30" or less. 2006-2009 there was really good numbers of 40-45" fish but 2010 dropped off and 2011 saw a bigger drop off. Guys out for tuna in the eez still see fair numbers but in shore has been dismal.-

One thing for sure bait isn't really the issue. Since there have been very few bluefish up here the last 7 years we have plenty of Mackerel around from May through Oct. There is still good numbers of alwives in the early season and sea herring in the fall. Bunker have been missing for the last few years. Plus we've seen some good numbers of sandeels and silversides. For a month the river had good numbers of squid.

Something here doesn't make sense. The only link posted is to a secure website. Do the guys posting these graphs have any other links to the place where this is coming from?

These graphs certainly don't coincide with data put out by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission.

Ed B

What Tournament? I've never heard of any tournament in MA that has a 10 fish limit.....

I assume they made the graphs with the NOAA data. Which ASMFC data are you talking about? The yoy index that dropped for years up until the most recent one?

Not in one shot my friend. I'm understanding the 10 fish total is over the course of the tournament. I used the word limit, but they use the word total. But it's not about the words, it's about the 30.000 bass.

About the only catch an release tournament I know of is the TRI STATE TOUNAMENT of NEW ENGLAND that was founded back in the 60's by Bob Pond and a bunch of clubs for data reseaerch. Was a catch or release tourny till the stripers went under in the 80s then became just a catch n release on till present.

There have always been Tournies. I remember them from when my dad had a charter boat years back. But I don't think the tournies of today that include keeping so many bass over a set period of time is even any option anymore. Who gains from this? What's the point? Bragging rights? Who cares about bragging rights when this thing we do is in trouble.

I'm awed by anyone who seriously pursues this sport who disagrees with the declining trend of the stock.

I live and fish in New Hampshire. I can tell you that the shores were not teeming with striped bass this past season -- the summertime inshore fishery in NH and Southern Maine has really eroded within the past 5 years or so. Ask any guide. I suppose the increased catch data in 2011 could be attributed to (near) offshore catches(?) Honestly, I don't know anyone out there fishing from shore catching more numbers than the recent past.

Again....What Tournament? Never heard of one like that in MA.

This is never a popular sentiment, but...

As far as our own culpability as recreational anglers, our biggest contribution to the current state of the fishery is our egos.

I'll speak for myself: Earlier in the past decade, I was one of those guys out there whaling on schools of shorts -- trying to break 100 fish in a tide (etc.) so I could tell anyone willing to listen how well I did. I'd kill large fish primarily so I could get my picture taken at the local B&T for the sake of my reputation. If I couldn't give the fish away I'd toss it in the woods. Wasteful. Foolish.

I got wiser as time went on, but I did spend the entire 2007 season eeling a small section of shoreline, pounding on a summering school of 25 - 35 lb fish. I went through about 300 eels and had "the summer of my life" impressing myself with how good I was. I'm almost ashamed of that season now; eels are in tough shape in most of their range and clearly smaller bass were on the decline, but my ego mattered more than restraint and common sense.

If you have been or are on this path regarding our sport, I guess it's up to you to recognize it and decide what your actions mean to your sense of responsibility as an angler.

We are all charged with stewardship whenever we pick up our rods...whether we do a fine job or a poor job of it, it matters -- and it's the only part of this situation we can control completely ourselves.

Eric

The same outfit that draws map and spot burns locations.

I do not disagree that we have a decline in the number of fish.

But I do agree bait matters, and where there is food you will find fish.

But over the past 5-6 years, where have all the baby bunker been, we have not seen a huge fall run of fish in most of those states for many years. But back 6-10 years ago we had baby bunker everywhere. I can remember year after year going to the Vineyard and having so much baby bunker you could walk on it and the fishing at that time was awesome.

5-6 years ago we had so many big pogies in the harbor you could have walked on them and were pulling fish over the rail every day 20-35 lb fish and releasing them back.

There were 4 Pogies boats that went back into business a few years ago for one season and whiped boston harbor, salem harbor and a few other places clean out of pogies, the next season we had hardly any and it took us 4 hours of netting just to get enough to fish with for a day. so were are all the baby bunker????

I have seen alot of mackerel the past several years, and herring in balls like no other but there is something that has happened the past several years that we have not had that sustainable bait in the later part of the season,

I also want to know WHY BYCATCH IS not counted as lost numbers of fish. You have draggers and trawler putting bycatch over the rail all day long, as well as long liners, not just Stripers but everything!!! Why is that not counted in all of the loss of species factor!!!!

The cod are in trouble, Haddock is not as good as it was, they have even increased the quota on dogfish so they are eating less fish as well, so why is it that those numbers are not counted toward declines in fisheries???

I stopped entering it, but in all fairness, nowhere near 30,000 fish get entered. In the years that I did enter it, I weighed in exactly one fish. It was gill hooked and bleeding like a stuck pig anyway. It just happened to win me a weekly prize.

When fish in the low 30s are the Grand Leaders in the MV Derby (back in the 90s, when bass were first re-entered, you needed 50+ to even be on the board, and even in the 80s, guys took 40s and 50s from the beach and released them because they weren't Derby-eligible), you know something's wrong.

One big population on the backside, yet an absence of fish everywhere else... stocks must be healthy.:smash:

Didn't there used to be a time when you didn't need a boat to catch stripers because the fish were literally everywhere along the shore?

Do you mean littorally?

Sorry, couldn't resist the pun...
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Not sure what happened to the first link but try the link below and select "catch" query. You should be able to get the tables I posted for each state.

You really need to look at the ASMFC tables closely. The 2006 to2011 data shows about a 33% decrease in recreational kept but then it shows about a 75% decrease in the release numbers. If you add the C&R numbers together you see a decrease of about 70% decrease. This is on page 18 of the 2011 assessment. If you look at the table on page 19 you will see that the states at the North and South ends of the range have seen the biggest drops.

ASMFC says that stripers are not overfished because the stock numbers are above the SSB Threshold. Problem is in my opinion if we drop the stock to the Threshold number Maine, NH, Mass North Shore, VA, NC will not have a migratory stripe bass fishery.

http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/recr...ies/index.html

I know that number seems extreme, but the site boasts of 3000 entries with a 10 fish total over the course of the tourny.
My point is Mike, with how things are with the bass, how can one site still want to promote such a tourny.
As many of us are trying to save what is left and hope things will be normal in a decade or so, there is still this type of mindset out there.
I know it's everyone's right or privilege to do what they feel is ok or do, just as long as rules and regs are followed. But does that really make it right?
There has to be a change. And the change has to come from the ones who fish for striped bass!
I know it goes deeper in some respects to the guys who eke out a living fishing, but that is something else again.

Horsehockey! they haven't rerun the numbers and they have even said they won't re run the numbers. NMFS is going to stick with the new assessment, warts and all, and that's what we are all going to have to live with.

The bass are staying with the bait. Most fish are not migrating this far up. All the pogies stay south while we have sandeels. Why would u give
up prime rib for steak ums. 2 years ago everyone was pumped up about how the canal was red hot, macks everywhere same went for cape cod bay. Last year no macks no bait less fish people cry crash. Fish need a sustainable food supply to survive if there no food why stay in one area. They go were the food is.

Sorry, that's just not true. In terms of the overall garm assessment, yes, its being used. In terms of the specific April data, its been revisited. One set of data does not an entire model make :)
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[size=1]Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device[/size
Bs. Western LIS was filled with bunker all spring through June. We had more herring than anytime in 15 years. There are less bass. It is beyond any reasonable argument.

A lot more at play here than just bait.

Not true at all. You are way off on the pogies. Narragansett Bay had more pogies and they stayed longer than anytime in the past 40 years. The banning of the pogie boats from the upper Bay, EG, Bristol and the Providence River had a dramatic effect on the numbers of pogies. Hell, EG Bay had millions of adult pogies into November.

The Bass are in trouble, have been in trouble for 6 years and it will continue to get worse. I lived thru the moratorium in the 80s and helped with the recovery. I'm now 64 and probably will not live long enough to see another recovery.

Folks just really need to know what going on here with the bass. Many just see the bass as another species of fish. But the Striper is our thing, is what we do.
There are those out there that don't believe the bass are in trouble. What kind of denial is this? Why are some so resistant to see what's going on with the Striper?

I read a book entitled, " COD" a few years back. The Cod of today are just a smidgen of what they were many moons ago. I'll include in your list, Flounder, Whiting and Ling(Silver Hake). And the latter were caught as a child the size of baseball bats.

The ones that take it all do so because this is their livelihood. This is what they do. It's an old way of life, a way of life that doesn't fit into the ways of today. Resistant to change, is what it is.
Just think about how this is. Stripers dwindling down, bait being eliminated from areas, yet the boats go about their business like all is well. What is this? Not caring? I think it's folks just doing what they always done because this is what they do.

This sums it up. Humans are a rapacious lot. Any species of plant or animal that can be eaten or turned into money will be cleaned out unless enforceable laws prevent it.

Thanks for the link Mike. I have been running cases looking at angler effort. Something of note is that I see a significant reduction in Angler Effort for striped bass. Just a few years ago it looks like Angler Effort was in the order of 50% higher than what it was in 2011. Based on that, I would certainly expect a significant reduction in striped bass caught and also caught and released. I can see why the data as you queried shows a big drop, as fewer people pursue fewer fish.

Ed B

I pulled the data from their site and calculated "Stripers per Trip" to account for the decline in fishing effort. The results still show a decline underway but it doesn't look as dramatic. Another trend that came out of this is the increasing percentage of fish that are harvested. This is not surprising given the big decline in small fish over the past few years.

We had Paul Diadoti as guest speaker at the SBCA meeting last night and according to him stocks are very healthy for larger fish. The concern is the last 6-7 year class of new & schoolies have been pretty bad, a lot not to be found and a lot died off though last years class was very good.
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Two years ago I personally told him this is the scenario that he would be looking at. He just shrugged and made a note.
From just another irrelevant old fart who spends a lot of time on the water. :confused:

Follow the curve. About 2 or 3 more seasons until we are back to 1984 levels. Not a pretty picture.