The kind of sacrifices we need to mend this country have to come from everyone.

You need a strong leader that can lay out the true facts of where we are,what the consquences are, what we need to do, and then unite all our people to be willing to do their share of sacrificing.

It can't be on the backs of one group, it has to be shared by everyone.
This class warfare stuff will never work, except to divide the country and
bring in votes for the party that promotes it.
It's estimated that the increase in taxing the 1% will bring in 80-90 billion,
which would do very little to pay down the trillions we have in debt.

It will take a concerted effort on every citizen's part and a dynamic leader
that can unite the people for the sake of America. While Obama promoted himself
in his campaighn to be such a leader, he has failed.

I pay enough in taxes.....should not have to suffer for miss guided politicians that sit at their desk bouncing a pencil contriving to take my hard earned money.....making policies that exclude them

wow this republican cool-aid tasted great....oh wait so doesn't the democrats.. Must keep head down, keep working, keep paying for corporate handouts, keep paying for mortage handouts, keep paying for welfare and medicaid handouts, there may not be a social security hand out for me at the end, but thats ok it only hurts when I think.

Reading comp. an issue Scott? I didn't say it is "for the people" that is a farce, it is the idea that Ryan and Romney raising taxes on the middle class and and cutting nearly all taxes for the super rich is somehow what was envisioned by the founders. Guess that is why the "sheeple" would fall for the Ryan scam.

And for buchie: you don't postulate on anything, because everything you say out is put out as fact, even when it is bs. I guess that is better :rotf2:

Where have I said that I don't? Where have I said that YOU shouldn't? Pointing out your postulation in relation to the rest of your post is not a scolding that you postulate. All of my posts, except when I quote or link to other opinions or facts, ARE OPINIONS. I assume that is obvious, and it doesn't require me to say "in my opinion" before every sentence I write.

You have hit on the obvious (in my opinion). What, apparently, is not obvious even though it stares us in the face (in my opinion), is that the same entity which pays for or enforces the corparate "handouts" and mortage handouts, is the entity that keeps paying for welfare and medicaid handouts--regardless of Republican or Democrat cool aids (in my opinion). That you have so little to say about it is, IMHO (do I have to constantly say that?--I think not) because the power to make those handouts or decide which handouts will be given, was unconsitutionally taken from your local or State government by Progressive politicians and judges. It is those local governments, as constitutionally intended, in which you will have a more direct say and those governments that will be more responsive to you than the central government is.

Agree,but you think it's bad now, wait till the Bush Tax Cuts expire and all of us who pay taxes will pay around 50% of our income between Fed, State, County, Local Sales, etc.
We will be working for the Govt from Jan-July before we see our own dime.
That's why all Govt programs need to be cut to help stop the bleeding,none excluded.

These guys use many of these programs to pay back contributors and to buy votes for their own agenda and are scared to death to do what's really needed.

We need a President that will get out there explain his plan every week if need be, motivate and inspire us to get out of this quick sand. Holding a news conference every 2 months and appearing on Entretainment Tonight to talk about himself,his hobbies etc. is a dis-service to the country.
We all know he's a nice guy,but let's hear how he's really going to bring the Govt back to fiscal responsibility.

Absolutely. Nothing better than attending a local or county meeting to have your say, have it heard and answered. It's the power of the individual.

My Representative holds monthly teleconference meetings where you can state your opinions and ask questions. Can't beat it for finding out what is really going
on with legislation in Washington.

So I guess the sheeple are now the ones that don't fall lock step in with almost every major news network?

The ones who when asked why they are voting for "hope and change" have no good answer. Not saying you are one of them. You may have very valid reasons for voting D. If you want to call every American who votes Romney Ryan sheeple it may be time to look at why people vote Obama Biden as well?

I will vote Romney Ryan and it is simple for me. I work harder than I ever have for far less money than ever before. I am going to be looking at a tax increase in January due to legislation I didn't want. I fear if this administration is given a term without needing to campaign to keep their jobs we will be seeing far more legislation we don't want

I and my business will not survive another four years of the current regime. I kill myself daily to provide for my family I have gone months with out pay to make sure employees get taken care of before me. I pay my bills I have paid my dues. And I get to see people live and die through entitlement our current leadership included. I am middle class and my quality of living is rapidly decreasing. I don't live lavishly. I haven't taken a vacation for three years my customers are happy with me there just is not enough work for everyone. It is what it is. I just know if this regime gets another 4 years it will get worse.
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Sheeple wasn't my word. Obviously it is subjective. Very little has changed for small business under Obama. Many people who speak out against voting for him talk about the fear of what he Will do. The nra is big on that. Makes me want to get their sticker off my truck. Scare tactics. But concern for your business is an understandable reason. I fear for a country where billionaires change the tax system so the middle class gets hammered harder while they pay a tiny percent.how that helps the deficit is beyond me.i also don't get how that makes a better country.
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I feel your pain JB. A family member has been a bank manager for many years and
was able to approve most small business loans under certain criteria on her own.
Now with the new Banking Regulations all small business loans must be sent to a Loan Officer at Headquarters. No matter what the loan history is with the local bank, the business needs to put up %60 colatteral in some form, even their homes, to get a loan.
Not a favorable enviornment to grow a small business or hire additional employees,
and these are many of the people they want to increase taxes on.
Doesn't make sense for economic growth.

:)you are so caught up in straw dogs and talking points that you dismiss, ignore or denounce anything that doesn't jive with your story line....what would "makes a better country" would be getting back on a fiscally responsible path by reducing the burden of government and reviving the principles that made us "better" in the first place.......one of the "sides' that you often speak of has absolutely no intention of doing either:)

noone wants to "work" for an entity that is so bloated and irresponsible with what is already being provided them.... giving them even more would be an exercise in futility and enablement....see California below...

I am simply tired of this notion that Obama and Biden give 2 s@&ts about the American middle
Class. They care about one group of people those they can convince to vote for them. They care about
Middle class to the extent that they want the unions to back them period. Then they care about the poor (American non working families, which is becoming generational) . And they also care about big corporate America. Because that is where they get their campaign money.

Divide and conquer. We are being divided, look at the arguments on a fishing forum for crying out loud, next will come the conquering. I am not talking about enslavement or any Indiana jones type crap. But making people live to their will. Doing as they think we need it has already happened it will again.
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“The period which immediately precedes an election, and that during which the election is taking place, must always be considered as a national crisis. ... As the election draws near, the activity of intrigue and the agitation of the populace increase; the citizens are divided into hostile camps, each of which assumes the name of its favorite candidate; the whole nation glows with feverish excitement.” -- Alexis de Tocqueville, “Democracy in America,” 1835

I like Ramesh

I’m Right, You’re Wrong and Other Political Truths
By Ramesh Ponnuru Aug 20, 2012

I can’t stand the people on your side. Not you, particularly. You’re fine. It’s your side that’s ruining everything great about this country.

Your side lies shamelessly. Your leaders just make things up. And you just follow them blindly, like sheep -- like blind sheep. You hang out with people who think just like you, and listen only to shows where you’ll hear your own views repeated. It’s an echo chamber of lies!

That’s how your side wins elections. It whips gullible people into a frenzy about supposed threats to their freedoms and livelihoods, and it deceives everyone else into thinking it’s more moderate than it really is. Once the election is over, though, your side starts pushing its extreme agenda behind the scenes.

When your side wins an election, you make out the president to be some sort of messenger from God. Nothing he does can be wrong. It doesn’t matter how big a hypocrite he is. He can campaign on bringing us together and then do nothing but divide us when he gets in -- but you don’t mind. When our side wins, on the other hand, the president has to be personally trashed and accused of the most monstrous crimes.

Your side stirs up hate against the people on my side. The horrible signs your people hold up at their protests, the venom your spokesmen spew on television: It’s scary. I wonder how you can go through life with all that anger inside you.

Your side is simplistic. You never stop and think things through. That’s how you end up with your ridiculously inconsistent positions on abortion and the death penalty. You even fight against legislation that would make your own life better! How crazy is that?

Honestly, I don’t know whether to be sorry for you or mad. Sometimes I wish we could just free you from these awful leaders and their dumb ideas. Sometimes I wish all the people on your side would just secede and form your own country.

I don’t know if your side even believes in democracy. Your people are willing to do whatever it takes to win. That’s all they care about. They don’t care about how much damage their incivility does to the tone of our national life. It makes me sad.

Your side is willing to exploit tragedies for political gain. When your side’s rhetoric leads to political violence, on the other hand, you start saying how we shouldn’t politicize senseless crimes. Awfully convenient, isn’t it?

Your side’s extremism just grows and grows. Back in the day, people on your side had some sensible views and were willing to work with people on my side. Now your side purges anyone who would dare to do that.

The people on your side constantly whine about how unfairly they are treated. You’re always stoking phony outrage against the political leaders you hate. They are shameless liars, you say. But why should we take demands for honesty seriously when they come from your side? Frankly, anything your side gets is justified payback for all the things you’ve done.

I’m not saying that my side is perfect. Not at all. I complain about the people on my side all the time. They’re wimps. They’re too polite. They let your side get away with murder. And the press lets it happen, too. The people on my side always bring knives to the gunfight.

Maybe the most infuriating thing your side does is pretend that we’re morally equivalent. That’s not true: Your side is full of much worse people. I can’t even stand seeing them on television. No way could I ever watch that supposed news network of yours.

It’s nothing personal. I just hate people like you.

//////////////////////////////////

spending related....and funny...unless you live in Cali.


August 21, 2012
Funding Failure
Aaron Gee

Jerry Brown has a problem. His state continues to spend billions more than it collects in taxes. Outlays for pensioners are starting to bite into day to day government functions. Unable to get higher taxes through his state's legislature Brown is turning to the voters with proposition 30, asking the voters to raise their own taxes. Proposition 30 is being sold to the public as a way to balance the budget and prevent cuts to schools and public safety.

Brown parades around the state preaching that his citizens must accept the tax "for the children". Already the most tax burdened state in the union according to a Pacific Research Institute study, more taxes just continues the status quo. The revenue generated will not do much to fill this years 16 billion dollar deficit, nor go to schools, or public safety. That money will be used to shore up a broken retirement system that is underfunded by hundreds of billions of dollars.

The other sad truth is that much of the income promised by this new tax will never be collected. With nearly 2,000 upper income Californians leaving the state every week the amount of money garnered from Brown's latest "tax the rich" scheme is sure to be much, much, less than forecast. California already has the worst business climate in the United States which makes raising taxes that much more damning. Businesses are leaving the state and with them taxpaying workers.

if the budget was not embarassing...it wouldn't have been much of a stunt:) wasn't it a 3.6 Trillion dollar budget?

and

President Obama’s economists are nothing if not optimistic. In the fiscal year 2013 presidential budget request, they’ve once again forecast higher future growth than their private-sector peers – about a half-point of gross domestic product growth more, per year, than the 45 economists included in the Philadelphia Fed’s Survey of Professional Forecasters.

The Obama budget, released Monday, forecasts 2.7 percent real GDP growth this year and 3.0 percent next year. Growth increases to 3.6 percent in 2014 and 4.1 percent in 2015. The highest the Philadelphia Fed consensus projections peg growth at 2.3 percent this year and slowly rising to 3.1 percent in 2015

........................................
Jul. 27, 2012, 8:30 AM | 3,842 | 24

UPDATE:

The U.S. economy expanded by 1.5 percent during the second quarter, topping expecations( well, not Obama expectations) for a 1.4 percent gain, new data out of the Bureau of Economic Analysis shows.

Nonetheless, the government figures continued show that the nation's economy is on uneven footing and losing momentum.

During the first three months of the year, the country's gross domestic product expanded by a revised 2.0 percent, moderately faster than the pace seen today.

Yes and the CBO just forecast an added 1.1 Trillion to our debt for 2012.
Peanuts, what's another Trillion +. :rollem:

And that's with 2 wars winding down.

Hello America, are you awake?

No scott, i dont have a confederate flag on my truck. I do know some tea party guys who do and one has it tattooed on his shoulder.
You also seem to point out as justplugit does that everyone needs to pay more taxes.that doesn't follow your party line.
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huh?????


Originally Posted by zimmy
"You like that the majority of current tax payers would pay higher taxes under the Ryan plan?"

The other sad truth is that much of the income promised by this new tax will never be collected. With nearly 2,000 upper income Californians leaving the state every week the amount of money garnered from Brown's latest "tax the rich" scheme is sure to be much, much, less than forecast. California already has the worst business climate in the United States which makes raising taxes that much more damning. Businesses are leaving the state and with them taxpaying workers.

and coming to TX where I pay state tax of, whats that number again, oh yeah, ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Justplug correctly stated it will take tax raises and spending cuts to cut the deficit. You point out that taxing the rich wont fix it, which points to tax raises on everyone. Ryan plan looks like it lowers taxes on everyone, but actually raises taxes, but only on the middle class. So are people tricked by Ryan or just don't know enough about his plan?
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Yeah but it is filled with people from Texas.;)
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when I do my families finances I look first to trim our expenses before I ask for a raise or find a new job. Its it too much to ask the same of our government?

Yes. Yes it is. Because cutting expenses means less money to buy votes.

it's what happens when you throw money at something without fixing the probem(s):)

General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again - Forbes

“So now I want to say that what we did with the auto industry, we can do in manufacturing across America. Let’s make sure advanced, high-tech manufacturing jobs take root here, not in China. Let’s have them here in Colorado. And that means supporting investment here.”
OBAMA

"GM has been selling cars in the U.S. at deep discount, and while it’s making money in China — and is outsourcing operations there and elsewhere — it’s bleeding losses in Europe. It’s spending billions to ditch its Opel brand there in favor of Chevrolet, including $559 million to put the Chevy logo on Manchester United soccer-team uniforms — and it just fired the marketing exec who cut that deal.

It botched the launch of its new Chevrolet Malibu by starting with the green-friendly Eco version, which pleased its government shareholders even though the car got lousy reviews. And it’s selling only about 10,000 electric-powered Chevy Volts a year, a puny contribution toward Obama’s goal of one million electric vehicles on the road by 2015.

“GM is going from bad to worse,” reads the headline on the analysis of Automotive News’s editor in chief, Keith Crain. That’s certainly true of its stock price.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...308139978/1193

The government still owns 500 million shares of GM, 26 percent of the total. It needs to sell them for $53 a share to recover its $49.5 billion bailout. But the stock price is around $20 a share, and the Treasury now estimates that the government will lose more than $25 billion if and when it sells.

That’s in addition to the revenue lost when the Obama administration permitted GM to continue to deduct previous losses from current profits, even though such deductions are ordinarily wiped out in bankruptcy proceedings.

It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that GM is bleeding money because of decisions made by a management eager to please its political masters — and by the terms of the bankruptcy arranged by Obama car czars Ron Bloom and Steven Rattner.

Rattner himself admitted late last year, in a speech to the Detroit Economic Club: “We should have asked the UAW [United Auto Workers union] to do a bit more. We did not ask any UAW member to take a cut in their pay.” Non-union employees of GM spin-off Delphi lost their pensions. UAW members didn’t."


Automotive News: ?GM is going from bad to worse? | WashingtonExaminer.com

Maybe this time the government will let it go bankrupt so they can re write the union contracts. What a joke.
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I like how the Forbes link Scott posted contains a link to another Forbes article posted the day after that rips apart the first one.
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Reality check.Let's face it, there are 300 million people in the US with a total debt of 16-17 Trillion and there is only one way to fix it. In order to pay it down, EVERYONE needs to have a horse in the race.
The %50 of us who pay taxes will need to pay more and the other %50, who don't
will have to do with less from Govt. programs.

This picking, choosing,and dividing by politicians to get the most amount of votes for themselves is nonsense and dishonest. As I've said before, we need a leader who will stick his face into the wind lead, and make the unpopular choices.

Ryan at the very least has a plan, I'm still waiting to hear Obama's, besides putting
it all on the back of the so called rich.

Yes, Ryan has a plan.the problem is that most of the people who are excited by his plan have no idea what is in the plan. They just think he is going to magically cut everyone's taxes and erase the deficit
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You live anywhere near Lubbock?

(CNN) -- An elected county judge in Texas is warning that the nation could descend into civil war if President Barack Obama is re-elected, and is calling for a trained, well-equipped force to battle the United Nations troops he says Obama would bring in.

The comments by Lubbock County Judge Tom Head, who oversees emergency planning efforts, were broadcast by CNN affiliate KJTV. He made similar remarks on radio station FOX Talk 950.

Saying that as the county's emergency management coordinator he has to "think about the very worst thing that can happen and prepare for that and hope and pray for the best," Head told radio host Jeff Klotzman that he believes "in this political climate and financial climate, what is the very worst thing that could happen right now? Obama gets back in the White House. No. God forbid."

Why are tax hikes politically radioactive?

Referring to unexplained "executive orders" and other documents that Obama and "his minions have filed," Head said, "regardless of whether the Republicans take over the Senate, which I hope they do, he is going to make the United States Congress and he's going to make the Constitution irrelevant. He's got his czars in place that don't answer to anybody."

Obama, Head said, will "try to give the sovereignty of the United States away to the United Nations. What do you think the public's going to do when that happens? We are talking civil unrest, civil disobedience, possibly, possibly civil war ... I'm not talking just talking riots here and there. I'm talking Lexington, Concord, take up arms, get rid of the dictator. OK, what do you think he is going to do when that happens? He is going to call in the U.N. troops, personnel carriers, tanks and whatever."

Head vowed to personally stand "in front of their personnel carriers and say, 'You're not coming in here.' And I've asked the sheriff. I said, 'Are you going to back me on this?' And he said, 'Yeah, I'm going to back you.' Well, I don't want a bunch of rookies back there who have no training and little equipment. I want seasoned veteran people who are trained that have got equipment. And even then, you know we may have two or three hundred deputies facing maybe a thousand U.N. troops. We may have to call out the militia."

Sheriff Kelly Rowe told KJTV there had been no conversation about such a civil war scenario. The two have discussed contingencies for emergency management, he said.

KJTV reported that the warning was linked to taxes. Head "indicates a tax increase is needed to shore up law enforcement to protect us," the station reported, adding that a tax increase is under consideration that "would largely benefit the district attorney and sheriff's offices. But the emphasis is more on salary competitiveness than doomsday scenarios."

Head made his controversial remarks Tuesday.

On Wednesday at a county commissioner meeting, he emphasized that his remarks were about "worst case scenario in my opinion," and added, "Do I think those are going to happen? Probably not."

County Commissioner Gilbert Flores told KJTV he was "ashamed" of Head's remarks, and told the judge, "I think you better plan to go fishing pretty soon."

Attorney Rod Hobson jokingly put up U.N. flags outside his Lubbock office, KJTV reported. "When I saw the story I thought, once again, Lubbock is going to be the laughingstock of the entire nation," said Hobson. "What makes it so sad is he is our elected county judge, who is in charge of a multi-million dollar budget. That is scary. It's like the light's on, but no one is home... I'd just like to think he's off his meds."

But video from the Wednesday meeting showed at least one citizen supporting him. "Judge Head, thank you, and God bless," one citizen said.

Head did not immediately respond to an e-mail or phone call to his office Thursday morning.

KJTV reported that an aide to Head said the judge will not be commenting for one or two days.

Zim, where did you get that info from?

Most cons and tea party supporters are opposed to any tax raises (well except income tax for the poor). The Ryan plan is a huge tax raise on most taxpayers. On top of that, they would have to seek out the details beyond con sound bites. The mantra of those people is not raise my taxes but cut spending and taxes on the wealthy. It is the tea party after all. You might very well know what the details are and like the plan. That is how it should work.
I anticipate similar remorse to a Ryan plan as people had to bush term two.
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The WSJ broke the Ryan Plan down like this:

Spending-- 40.1 Trillion vs Obama 46.9 Trillion over 10 years

Tax Revenue--37 Trillion vs 40 Trillion

Lower tax rates and tax brackets

Medicare will stay the same for those over 55 and an additional
Choice-Medicare Type Program privatly run with additional Medicare type
plan to offer additional assistance for the poor.

Medicade made into a Federal Block Grant Program freeing States to tailor their
Prorgrams.

Individual Taxes- two tax rates %10 and %25 and includes removing loop holes

Corporate Taxes- lower top corporation from %35 to %25 while gutting exemptions

Reduce Defecit to %3 of GDP by 2014. Currently is %7.8 of GDP

Tax revenues would lag behind spending during a 10 year window.

there are a few opinion pcs linked to the article on the subject...the one to which you refer is a very brief, smarmy retort which is long on arrogance and insults and short on specifics......:) the other linked pcs support the idea that GM is not "fixed" despite all of the government guidance and financial assistance and looming losses that the taxpayers will incur as a result of the direction that was chosed to "save" GM(unions interests) ....stock price doesn't look so hot if you are at all concerned about the tax payers

I guess if you consider that "rips apart"

General Motor's Restructuring Plan Won't Work - Business Insider

General Motors' executive shake-up points to struggles at carmaker - latimes.com
treason?...this one is great...hate it when they make it tough to fudge the numbers

As GM struggles to boost sales, image is everything

as you read through these you notice many similarities between Government Motors and the Current Admin.....lots of hype and rhetoric, contrived numbers to claim that things are better than they really are, dependence on government(s), dissaray and a lot of failure deflected in one way or another...not so big on openess and transparency.....and on

probably time for a new, very expensive campaign :uhuh:

Try the "elected county judge" for treason against the United States.
And for being a kook.

Not so much it is filled with a Ton of people who have left their home states in search of reasonable cost of living reduced taxes and good jobs also.
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how come we never heard about this?



Ex-GM workers in Colombia sew mouths shut in hunger strike [w/video]

3rd world problems.

So what is the critiszism for this plan?

Two critical points: to balance the budget and reduce the deficit, all deductions and exemptions would go away, so those who are in that 10% bracket get a substantial tax raise; taxes on interest, dividends and long term capital gains would reduce Romney's taxes and those with income primarily from investments to between 0-1%.

So the plan is to substantially raise taxes on people with moderate incomes (roughly $200,000 and less) and probably those in the next group who have relatively limited investment income, but end taxes for those very wealthy who get most of their income from dividends and capital gains.

Also, for many corporations it would be an enormous tax increase, if exemptions are gutted. The effective tax rate is only 27.1%, so it would be a small decrease in the effective tax rate. I agree with this part of his plan, but for those who are of the limited taxation, get government out of business crowd, this part of the plan does not actual lower taxes by 10%. It is a tax cut for some businesses and an enormous tax increase for others.

My point is not to criticize the plan. My point is that if the great majority of Ryan supporters could have been asked about some annonymous plan that was going to give 90% of them an income tax increase in the range of 10-20%, most would not be too excited by it. Most Republican congresspeople have agreed to Norquist's pledge to not raise taxes. Ryan's plan raises taxes on most Americans and many businesses. The tax raises are hidden in the details, but they are tax raises none the less.