Mark,you are required to file report catchs in mass,whether you fish or not.i have to agree with Kenny,same guys complaining every year,one constant complainer even mentions that he had one of his best years ever.are bass stocks down? i say yes but they are down from the peak.people got use to easy fishing now that you have to do a little work to catch people complain they are gone.in the last 5 years i have caught more fish more consistantly than ever before.without the annouance of others,because they are afraid of walking a few feet from there vehicle.if popular places like Race point,Montauk, Smiths point,Democrat,etc,are slow than the cries are the fish are gone.more often than not the fish are a few miles away were a select few are hammering them.maybe some should count how many fish pass thru the canal each spring or how many bass were schooled up off Chatham,the number of fish that were off fire island 2 years ago,or the numbers off Jersey last fall winter.as far asthe Moratoruim,i am curouis,did the remaing bass decide to spawn because some states decided to ban the keeping of them or did some enviornmental factors line up just right in order for a sucessful spawn?in my 50 plus years of working playing on the water i have seen differant types of sea life come and go in cycles.

Gamefish status before it's too late. The striped bass is worth MUCH MORE money alive than dead.

The people who are always against this are the ones who are making money off of the fish. Sad.
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My bad point taken.

I agree, you and I both know of a handful of guys who sit out at a certain spot and fish the same water every day year after year and say the fishing is terrible when down the road there are fish to be caught.

The one individual from that video that makes me really take notice is Wetzel simply because we have mutual friends and I know the guy kills himself to be on top of bait and fish patterns.

Regardless I honestly hope we are down in the cycle and things improve. Like I said before I was encouraged by the numbers of really small fish I saw this year. Just hope they make it to adulthood. By my estimation they were probably 3 or 4 year old fish which leadsr to believe that last years class should have us swimming in schoolie bass in a couple of years. Not my favorite fish to catch naturally but when my daughter is a teenager I should be able to put her on some nice fish(if she still thinks I am cool then, god knows her mother doesn't lol)
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Don,explain to to me how gamefish status will keep bass alive?am i missing something?does gamefish status ban the keeping of stripedbass by everyone?is gamefishstatus making bass fishing a catch and release only fishery? just curouis if i am not getting the facts right

It reduced the harvest so that the few remaining fish could stay alive to spawn. The abundance in the mid 80's was incredibly low, like 1/20th what it is today by weight. Without the moratorium, it is likely they would have gone the way of cod. We don't need a moratorium today, but a reduction in harvest would help the documented continuous downward trend in abundance over the last decade. Based on the published data, there are at least 30 million fewer spawning females than 10 years ago and the numbered has decreased every year.

As are the ones for it .
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I agree with a lot that lifishinvt says, but I truly believe that we can all do our part. Fish stocks are down, can't really argue it. Are they horrible? NO. Having said that I think in order for us to keep them where they are we could cut down from two fish to one for recs and also reduce the amount of commercial a little and we can get close to a sustainable fishery that will not have to go through so much craziness every 20 years.

yes. A good point. I should have said the ones that are always opposed to reductions are the ones who profit from dead bass. The people who make money from these fish who are for gamefish are the ones who are guides and tackle store owners and lure makers who need to see people fishing and catching. Those who sell dead fish profit more when there is more dead fish.
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Generally speaking of course.. There are always exceptions.
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personally i am all for an across the board reduction in numbers.but how do you reduce the rec take in reality? in my eyes the only way is to have some sort of tag system or license system such as the commercials have,but what are the chances of that happening.guys put up a stink about shelling 10 bucks for a license now.

Mark,you are right the number of small fish was pretty incredible.there were some spots that were producing fish in the 8 to 12 inch range.i just have to wonder where the big fish that came thru the canal went.the commercial season saw an average of around 17 lbs,very few fish in the 40 lb range.the other puzzling thing is that the outer cape sees good fishing a couple of weeks before the canal goes off.and by the end of june gone.

More than likely the fish that travel the outside are coming from the Hudson group? And the fish coming through the ditch are Chesapeake? Just a guess but it seems the canal fish come through fairly sick where I don't often see that level of illness on the outer cape. Just a guess.

As far as where the canal fish wind up all over the bay and parts on the south and north shores would be my best guess.
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Cut back commercial take 33% from 2006 levels.

Cut rec to 1 per day (like 2006) and make C&R only in 2x 2week windows to be determined - say May7-May21 in NE, July 15-29 - Apr 15-30 in MidLant, Jul 7-21... Play with the dates / numbers some but have real closure - C&R only during effective windows - just tossing it out for discussion

Mark,going back a few years it seemed like the canal fish would come thru the bay invading the beachs on the cape side,right up to long point the last few years this hasn't happened to the degree it was. does this mean the fish are gone or are they changing patterns,seems like good numbers come thru the canal.

I like that John. I think 1@36 to 45 inches for a slot makes sense too.
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Seals.
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http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/...ps604b0297.jpg
And boom goes the dynamite

Lol
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I think this could very well be a large part of the problem
http://www.jackgartside.com/myco_info.pdf
Releasing fish may not be the solution
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I can't remember the last time I kept 2 bass in a trip... make the fishery rec only with a 1 bass limit. And end this stupid CT bonus bass program that lets you keep over 2 fish if you have a ticket.

Why a C&R only time frame? My quesiton being what do you do if you catch a bass in the C&R window that is obviously not going to survive. I seldom go out into the surf with the goal being to keep my limit of bass. However, if things happen and I have a deep hooked fish, spent fish from the fight, etc., then I have kept two fish in a night. When #2 goes on the stringer I call it a night and had to do so last season after landing back to back large fish, so the likelyhood of there being a real cow in front of me was pretty good. If that occurred in a C&R season I would be doing nothing but feeding crabs. A "better idea" is to have an all-out closed season if you are looking for a no-kill timeframe, but I am more against that than I am at modifying current regs.

And New Jersey's bonus tag while your at it...

Both of those are states that outlawed Commercial Striper fishing and reallocated that quota to the recreational sector by allowing a third fish (disgusting).

2 very good examples of eliminating commercial fishing not doing a GD thing in terms of reducing mortality.

Stripers Forever "forgets to mention" this when they show their little state by state graph.

Btw - as a charter boat, our business depends on a strong bass population. I'm in no way against limits and conservation that makes sense. But these Stripers Forever guys are barking up the wrong tree.

If they actually cared about the fish stocks and not their own personal agenda, they could put their time and significant funds into something that might have a positive effect, rather than this fools errand.
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I prefer a slot limit that protects breeders like 1@28-36. More fish would be harvested than 1@36-45, but none of the bigger fish would be harvested. The overall take compared to now would be dramatically lower.

I love catching big drum. They were getting hammered down south in the way bass do now. States put in slots. NC is 1@ 18-27". Netters are allowed a certain amount of slot fish.The population recovered. Florida has a similar system, but I believe there are differences like a two fish limit in some areas. Protecting breeders is key.

I am not sure what I think about a closed season, but from an ecological/fisheries viewpoint, the injured fish is no worse when fed to the crabs than in your freezer. A small percentage of fish would be returned wounded or dead, but it would still result in substantially fewer fish harvested, which is the goal of the closed season. I have the same emotional instinct that a fish is wasted when tossed back dead, but if thousands of other fish are returned alive because of the closed season, it is far and away a net positive for the population.

Why a C&R? Because in order to get to have meaningful sufficient reductions in rec kill you need to have a either C&R or no fish during real parts of the season and I'd rather C&R then stay home ;) - If you look at the 8% mortality rate on C&R (whether correct or not it is the baseline used) it would be better than a 100% mortality of taken fish plus the 8% of C&R fish during the same time. Maybe put a dent in the spring slaughters from NJ to CC

To have a closed season in January wouldn't make much sense so it needs to be a relevant time.

Personally, I think all groups need to take a strong hit on take/kill of striped bass. Anything else is a deck chair relocation program. in the end THAT may not be enough WRT Myco.

This is why I always kick myself for getting involved in these kinds of threads..

I look at how I fish and assume all others do the same. I pretty much always head out for a tide as a C&R fisherman (unless participating in a toruney), but I have the means at my disposal to harvest in the event that a fish I catch will not survive. I do everything in my power to prevent any wasteful kills, but if I know the fish is going to end up as crab food, onto the stringer she goes. Since I am already fishing under a self imposed C&R rule, making it illegal for me to harvest crab food, something I feel I am doing for the better good as Zimmy noted I have the same moral hang up never to wastefuly kill anything (above the 8% that are going to die anyway that I can not avoid unless I quit fishing all together), is somehting that I would have a very hard time getting behind.

Regarding slot limits, I have always been in favor of such limits so long as the sizes are purely based on scientific data and not random numbers. Protect the first two or three spawning opportunities, as well as the two most prolific spawning opportunities as based by scientific data, and/or allow for a trophy fish to be kept. This provides a fish for the table as well as a hunt for the next record fish. Limiting SB to only the small slot and no trophies will simply never happen as there is WAY too much money on the line for the big girls (tournaments, charters, tackle sales, endorsements, etc.).

I only keep a couple per year myself and am 99.9% C&R but this has to be designed for all anglers.

I would be for a slot that makes sense but again, deck chair relocation program. Just something proper needs to be done before it is too late.

That's a solid take on slot limits.

One of my biggest problems with Stripers Forever is that they continually advocate for a slot limit that targets pre-spawn fish.

How anyone can argue that killing fish that haven't even had the chance to spawn once is conservation, is asinine.
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I think many fish the way you do. I always release just the way I am wired I am certain in my years of fishing some may not have survived the release just due to odds. But I know when they left my hands they shook on their own power.

After fishing the better part of two summers on the canal I can tell you there are people that take two a day every day if there is an opportunity to take two fish. I don't crap on em I don't begrudge them it is their legal right to do so.

However if the ASMFC proposes to reduce mortality in any sector I will support it. I know plenty of guys who will tell you til they are blue in the face how things should be. Not many are willing to actually do something about it.

The only hearings I have ever seen well
Attended were the Massachusetts
Hearings on the Stripers Forever bills.
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We have different definitions of asinine.

The reasons are three fold (or four):
1. Larger fish have dramatically more eggs. One dead 40 incher is like killing three 28"ers.

2. When the slot is small, about 50% of the harvested fish are males.

3. A harvest that selects for bigger fish will result in smaller fish over time. It has been documented repeatedly in population studies.

4. (the weakest of the three) there is a portion of fisherman who only keep a fish because it is big and they want to show it to people, not because they want it for food. Some of those people aren't going to keep a 27"er since it is less likely to impress someone.

I stay away from these threads because I dont have the answer or suggestions on this topic, If I had my way, they would be gamefish. However, the video is terrible. All the speakers have their livelihoods tied to the sucess of stripers which makes it extremely biased. I dont mean to be overly cynical but you can easily reword to say "please limit striped bass kill so I can continue to make money off the fishery". Its just the wrong angle to tell the story.

I think money in this argument is the entire problem. Either way the argument always comes down to money. SF study The Southwick study all about money. Maintaining a commercial fishery Money. The fish are secondary to these arguments and that is the sad part.

Fisheries management is about money and not fish. What is the maximum sustainable yield etc.

Slot limits or not we do not need to re invent the wheel we had a formula that worked pretty damn good IMHO 1@36 fish were every where after a few years.

You could ask 100 fisherman commercial or recreational what the solution is and you would get 100 different answers.

The solution is going to have to be recreational and commercial guys working together for the betterment of the fishery through a fair and equilateral reduction. Otherwise someone is going to get hosed.
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Precisely why I say cut to the chase - go back to the more restrictive levels of 2006 and then cut by 33%

If you are concerned about the future of the fishery 3 28” fish have a lot more value than one 40” fish. The smaller fish will continue to grow and will spawn for many more years than a fish that is in the middle to end of its lifespan. The number of eggs the 3 smaller fish will contribute to the fishery over time is far greater than the one large fish. In my opinion the guys that are catching and releasing 30, 40 , 50+ schoolies are night are doing far more damage to the fishery than the guys that are out there hunting for big fish and keeping a handful of them a season.

Do some studying on fisheries biology andand population dynamicsdynamics and see what you find. Let me know if you find data that supports your statement about smaller fish. I have never seen it. I have read a ton over the years.
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Nebe,the seals are not a problem along the inside of the cape,at least not until you get to long point.

I have done a lot of reading on the subject. I'm not trying to argue that smaller fish produce more eggs than larger fish in any given year. If you look at their potential for producing eggs in coming years though the number of eggs the three smalle fish will/could produce far exceeds the potential for the one larger fish. If you want to ensure a healthy population going forward would you rather have a one 40" thats going to produce eggs for the next 5 years of 3 28" fish that are going to produce eggs in greater numbers each year as they grow in size for the next 15 years?

How many Bass do you really need to keep ? ( I'm in for 6 or so a year )
To me , they don't taste as good as a lot of other fish out there.
Don't the bigger fish have more accumulated toxins in them anyway ?

i keep 1 or 2 bass a week depending on size and who is home for dinner.i rarely give it away towards seasons end i will freeze the meat from a few fish.my season keep total is between 20 to 40 fish.normally i keep fish around 30 inchs.

Makes sense.
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