I'll refrain a little as I was only joking. But I think its a dead horse that belongs in the political forum
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WPM, you're right. It happens every year and we get no where. I am resolved to the fact that I will see the second moratorium of my life time for stripers. It is inevitable with the level of slaughter that is going on. I am not blaming anyone as the recs are as guilty as the comms with over harvesting what should be a game fish. But this IS a dead horse.:deadhorse:

It's not a dead horse. It's a horse you go out into a field every night and try to beat with a stick, but its never there. There used to be lots of horses in the field though.. ;)
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and some feilds that never had horses have more horses than ever.if the horses were distributed over all the feilds like years ago i would bet the number of horses has gone down slightly since there all time high some years back.not saying that measures shouldn't be taken to insure that there are horses in the future,but there are quite a few cowboys who speak out both sides of their mouths

Most of the time I talk out of my a&$. 😉
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And quite a few money loving ranchers with their heads in a hole and pleased with the view.

in my young and inexperienced opinion, this is EXACTLY the type of thread that belongs here. I thought the main forum was for just these types of conversations. Does it involve politics? Yes, but anything that is organized will always have politics at play. The issue, at least as it seems to me, is that no matter what side you're on, the bass are "property" of people. The fisheries management, the recs, the state, the fed....everyone THINKS they know the best way to manage the stock. If people looked towards the future without regard to their own interest, I have a feeling that there wouldn't need to be these discussions. But, as we're talking about humans, there will always be people who are in it just for themselves. Maybe someday I will win the powerball, then lobby for a senior level fisheries management position so I could change from the inside out!

lets not forget the wealthy egotistical ranchers who have their noses so far up in the air they can't see whats in front of them.

You're wrong there, my smug vituperative friend.

My nose is in the air because I wear bifocals and that is the only way I can see what is left the pathetic striped bass population you are so eager to accept is healthy.

Yes, yes, I understand, there are plenty of striped bass...... it is just that they all live over the horizon now so lets just keep killing all the ones we can still reach and things will be fine. After all, the only good bass is a dead bass.

Alas, although you don't seem to realize it, you are right. There are plenty of striped bass if the 2011 YOY is correct. Soon we will be crawling in 16" fish again. And in 10-15 years they will even be worth catching. So in the meantime any remaining fish are expendable and under the law, as MakoMike so gleefully trumpets, they should be killed.

True, that will leave nothing but small fish to catch, but so what? With the help of fishery managers the commercial size limit can always be adjusted downward to take advantage of the bonanza of small fish and business can go on without any threat to sustainability.

What's not to like? Other than me, of course. ;)

Thank you for writing what many are thinking...

If you don't like the law work to change it, don't blame me for it. MSA is up for renewal next year, so here is your chance.

I don't blame you for it, Mike. It is just that your posts help highlight the problem, namely using the law as an excuse to continue hammering a fishery that is badly damaged (even if it is still sustainable).

You still don't get it, its not an "excuse" its what the managers are required to do.

Anyone with eyes who has fished the last decade or so knows the truth. We don't need any convoluted BS slingers telling us what's happening here. Take the $ bounty off their heads and get back to 1 @36" and presto change we will once again have a world class fishery.

"Convoluted BS slingers"? It would be illegal to do what you are suggesting.

MMike- if the next YOY assessment is low, will that trigger the reductions?
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what did i suggest that's illegal??????? as far gov't biologists go i've had them tell me to my face that their #'s could be off by as much as 50%. and why do so many long time fishermen see what i see? denial- it ain;t just a river in egypt.

Tragedy of the commons.

:rotf2:

I think this sums it up best. Unfortunately, Mike is right, the managers' hands are tied due to federal law.

Apparently, according to Mike, MSA is "up"? next year, so I guess now is the chance to make a change.

Changing to gamefish status, or 1@36" are all great mantras for Striped Bass regulation, but striped bass are just a very small piece of a gigantic confusing puzzle which is managed by MSA, and MSA won't allow for anything except taking MSY.

The way we assess & manage fisheries needs to drastically change, and it sounds like the chance to do this is with the re-visiting of the MSA next year.

The first question is, what is the new management scheme that is better than what they do now?

Once I heard that the lobsterman of southern New England and Long Island sound were blaming the lobster crash on striped bass I knew bass would never be fully protected. Bass are like zack said.. A single piece in the puzzle.
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Kinda think bass would prefer bunker....if there were any left around.
We all know lobster sucks without a pound of melted butter to drown it in.
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LOL. He never uses that type of language when we fish. Guess I am going to have to start using some 5 and 6 letter words instead of my usual 4 letter ones when we fish. I must be boring him to tears.

Lol or hyphenate and combine the four letter ones
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And then pulls out vituperative.......Fn way to go !
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This diagram pretty much shows what most of us are experiencing. The rec. catch is half of what it was from the top of the mountain from about 2000-2008. It clearly isn't lower because people decided to release more fish. Half the reward for the same effort. Twice the effort doesn't even get you to what you had for those years. So now we have half of what we have yet slaughter pretty much at will. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if 2013 is at 1994 levels. Couple more years we should be back at 1992 levels. Only benefit of that is that maybe the circus will go away for a decade or so.

Just to clarify here.

MSY is measured in pounds not numbers of fish

OY absolutely includes financial data as well as stock data

Maybe. The key number is the SSB, but the YOY index does affect the estimate of the SSB. But since the YOY don't recruit into the SSB for 5-6 years old, it may not have much of an effect.

You suggested 1) making them a gamefish and 2) raising the retention limit to 1 @ 36. Both of those actions would be illegal for the ASMFC, which is the managing authority for striped bass.

Could you point out which law ASMFC would break if it decided through amendment to change the status of sb and the limit? My understanding of the law is that ASMFC is given the authority to make those amendments. I am pretty sure what you are saying is tantamount to saying that congress would break a law by changing the law. I could be wrong...

IMO- this is where the problem lies with the MSA-they're trying to manage a fishery in a fashion just so it doesn't collapse again.

theres no thought about quality, next years catch, the possibilty for errors, etc. they're treating the fish like pork bellies, or any other commodity. its not something that is worth saving- it has "worth" when you kill it

They would be violating the Magnesson-Stevens act.

Change to 1@36 would be easily legally defended based on MSA, although it might require another amendment by ASMFC. ASMFC reports that overfishing is likely to occur in the near future. They could use yoy and the trend in catch rates to defend its legality as a preventive measure in response to predicted overfishing or just reverse amendment 6.

I doubt it, but it would depend on what F factor 1 @ 36 would yield. I strongly suspect that the F factor (mortality rate) would be far less than what is required to prevent "overfishing" in the future.

If they determine that overfishing is a factor...they should all lose their jobs and I think the RFA should pursue criminal charges. Overfishing is should never occur if it is managed properly IMO.


This is OT but a little related:

What are the laws governing dragging in sounds? I am seeing more and more small draggers working in some cases with mile off the beach in both ACK and V sound! I have been taking photos of these boats, I pass them every day. How is it we allow draggins in sounds? These guys should be out of site of land. The quoata is not an excuse to deplete out sound of fish. sounds bays and estuaries should be nurseries for fish and protected from commercial fishing.

FWIW, I hear vis the rumor mill that the ASMFC intends to take some action soon to prevent overfishing in 2014.

Make it illegal to posses bass from Nauset inlet to the Nantucket sound entrance make the canal a catch and release river lol.
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Those of us who fished the outer cape this year can tell you that any data that doesn't show overall catch plummeting to early 1990s levels is absolute crap. There were flat out no bass this year out there...none.

I am pretty sure canal rules state if you catch it, you kill.

Blitzseeker, post like yours really make me laugh.i fished the beaches of the outer cape,ptown and truro from early june till early sept this season and i caught quite a few bass.granted i fish 7 nights a week work in a tackle shop and have all the info needed to find fish,but even many of the shops customers who rarely fish caught fish this spring.it was actually one of the better springs in the last few years.unfortunatly very few people were on the beach when the fish were there.mid july till early sept was pretty dead,but if you put the effort in there were some fish around at night.

This post kills me. This is the same arguments that were givin before the moratorium in the 80's. The guys who fished non stop who were either pin hookers, poachers or charter captains ( anyone making money off of bass legit or not) screamed up and down that there were still some fish around.. You just had to work really hard for them. The fact is that they made money off of these fish and didn't want to loose their income.

Bob pond would be disappointed in you.
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