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Shouldn't there be an ICE CREAM flavor Named after PUTIN?

I mean, COME ON Now

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c66/ravenob1/piss.png

I am pretty sure that is almost exactly what Putin calls Obama.
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Spence, here is another perspective sort of along the lines of, or at least allied with, your heavy article. I think you would agree with it, if it's not too aggressive for your tastes. I like parts of it. But I wonder why it takes an American as well as American treasure for something like this to happen. I do like the call for reinstating the plan to install the anti-ballistic sites in Poland and Czechoslovakia which the Obama administration eliminated. And I really like the call for stepping up U.S. oil production including the lifting of the bans on government sites. That would really benefit our sluggish economy as well as replace the need for Ukraine and Western Europe to depend on Russian high priced oil while it would remove Putin's ace against economic sanctions.

http://thefederalist.com/2014/03/05/...-in-the-teeth/

I said above that we have several economic options that would do Russia serious harm. The Administration has certainly indicated this is a route we're willing to go down.

As for his assertion the Ukraine should cut off Crimea from services...that's pretty unwise IMHO and would give Putin further rationale to move under the guise of protecting Russians...

-spence

This thread makes me crave Poutine
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I like Tracinski's approach, but it would take an administration that doesn't pussy foot around, wouldn't pull shields from the Poles and Cheks, have open mikes revealing "we'll talk after the election" and pushing re-set buttons.
The message has already been sent ,and unless there is a 360, Putin will milk it for all it's worth.

The reality is as Obama once noted...the Cold War really is over. Putin can play games but most of what was the Eastern Bloc are now EU and NATO members.

Without strong ties to Western antagonists and an energy dependent economy Russia has little to offer, it's a 3rd world country.

-spence

Which is why I don't understand why the U.S. has to be involved. We could supply the Eastern Europeans with some weaponry and technology. The combined EU has more than enough resource and manpower to stand on their own, and to slap Putin and his ambitions silly. Even more so, since most of the Russian people don't want to go the mat for their Stalin-lite dictator's expansionist desire if it means they have to sacrifice and die for it. That would be the most demonstrative and lasting way for the Europeans to discourage threats from tyrannical bullies.

Maybe they just haven't fully bought in to what a union requires. Maybe they like and want to keep their differences intact, including the eternal squabbles and hates and jealousies among each other. And maybe they are just too used to depending on Big Brother America stepping in to do the dirty, bloody, and expensive heavy lifting. And maybe too many of them have their own internal problems, ethnic and economic, that concern them more than the fate of Ukraine.

The greatest good for their union, if they want to keep it and make it work, would be for them to get a unified backbone and punch the bully in the face, without outside help, and keep punching till he can't get up.

Maybe they could get together a "Rainbow Coalition" to fight the oppressor....send a double message to Putin. :hihi:

Call it "Operation Slap-Tickle"

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...ay_Soldier.jpg

...and even though I posted the above...you pretty much nailed it. Why do we need to jump in and fix everything...

one billion in aid should cure their problem...after all we do not need them dollars to repair our infrastructure....which crook is going to hide that billion....:)

The cold war maybe over as it was once described, but if he looks out
the window and sees Iran, Syria, North Korea, and now the Ukraine,
the winter vortex is coming fast.
I really doubt the EU wants to make the sacrifices needed to pressure
Russia. As was stated ,it is the US that always carries the heavy load and it's
time Europe stood up to the plate and lead the way.

Hmmmmm Russia sinking ships . This can't be goodi
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We should just do what we did when they invaded Moldovia and Georgia.

It's not about weapons, Russia's ability to use direct military force is geographically quite limited. They went to Crimea as it was one of the few important places they thought they could get away with it. The thing is they already have a military presence there and by treaty can have a very large military presence until 2048. Aside from some economic output does Crimea really gain them all that much? Given the push back from the West a land grab into eastern Ukraine doesn't seem very likely.

It's amazing how the GOP has jumped on Obama even going so far as to blame him for Crimea because he's "weak." I think the opposite may be true, our policy is putting a lot of strain on Russia and forcing their hand.

Regardless, the lack of unity must be giving Putin all the reassurance they need that we won't act. If anything, comments by the likes of Sen Graham and Rep Rogers are emboldening Russia's actions.

Certainly the EU should act more as a union, but that doesn't count us out of it. We don't rely on Russia for much compared to the EU and they'll need our backing to lessen any economic ties, they can't do it alone.

Germany is the real nut here with I think Poland a rising second...

-spence

There is something in Crimea that he wants, or wants to keep from getting out. What it is? I don't have a clue. It is clearly important enough to have risked all the goodwill he built (and now lost) from Sochi.

So this is the GOPs fault now .
The lack of unity , Spence??
Your hypocracy amazes me .
You even list the offending Senators .
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I think he's just trying to disrupt the movement of the last Eastern Bloc states Westward.

Putin really seems to believe he can bribe his own people with revenue from energy, hold Europe by the balls, pretend he's a modern leader with Sochi and still act like a thug.

He may be delusional.

-spence

Never said it was the fault of the GOP.

But for a party who claims to have the moral high ground many sure seem to be suffering for daylight.

-spence

They could EASILY do it alone if they had the will, the courage, and the . . . uh . . . what was that you were saying about GOP meddling . . . oh, yeah--the UNITY. And it wouldn't hurt their economic ties with us. And if we allowed ourselves to export oil it would more than make up whatever they'd lose from Russia. But we and they have a myriad of squabbles and differences that lead to lack of unity.

The EU is supposed to be an economic union. But most of its members don't seem to have a grasp of basic economics. Many were eager to jump into NATO for protection from the big bad bear, and into the EU for handouts. It's almost as if Germany actually was the eventual winner of WWII. It has the controlling hand in the EU. And the outliers have to go along in order to get bailed out of their ineptitude. At the very least, all the member countries could contribute bodies for a united military force--which could easily defend itself against Russia. Yet we still have forces there.

And here at home, we are bankrupt and proposing to go even further in debt, are downsizing the military, have "commitments" to other countries in our hemisphere and to Pacific Rim countries. The Caribbean, Central and South Americans have serious economic problems which feed us with millions of illegal immigrants. And continuously have surges of Marxist puppet dictators (with whom Putin threatens to ally). Our Pacific allies are constantly threatened by China and N. Korea (Oh yeah, Russia is making some pact with China). What would we do if China decided to do a Crimea on Taiwan? Our ties to the Middle East drain us and confuse us, and our strongest ally there is daily under siege and in threat of annihilation, and other "allies" there fund those who wish to destroy us. We won't allow Canada to build a pipe line which has been determined not to be a threat to the environment. (And, oh, as a funny aside, the Canadian Government and the State of Michigan agreed on building another bridge to each other to ease the crossing traffic jams due to the security inspections since 9/11. The Obama Administration okayed the deal and promised $200 million, I think, not sure of the figure, to kick in for the U.S. side of the obligations. But Obama's proposed budget left that paltry sum out. So, the upshot, the Democrat candidate running to replace the retiring Senator Carl Levin, and who is behind in the polls is "jumping" in and proposing a bill to put the money back in federal budget. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: The Republican Governor had successfully fought for the bridged to be built, his Republican state congress backed him, and now the Democrat candidate who is behind in the polls is going to be the "savior" of the project!! Wanna bet there was a little "smart" Chicago Style collusion to leave the bill out of the budget so he could be the knight in shining armor?)

So we have these monumental problems which we don't seem to have a serious answer for, but somehow we're supposed to be the deciding factor in the Ukraine dispute, even though Russia is a third world militarily second rate and geographically limited runt?

And what is it, exactly, that the EU is doing to help us with our problems?

It's almost like the Canada/Michigan bridge thing--like we're behind in the polls but put a shining light on our dim situation by coming in to save the day in some off the wall matter that distracts from the bad moment. Just keep the distractions coming till the mid terms.

I guess you're right, we should just cut the EU off and let Russia strengthen it's economic position in the world. There's not a lot we can do about it anyway with Obama and Kerry running around encouraging this kind of primative behavior. Putin may even put his shirt back on...

Perhaps Russia can use it's strengthened position in Crimea to expand it's navy and start patrolling the Ocean's shipping lanes for us. The savings for the US taxpayer here would be huge and could be returned to the wealthy to increase the supply of goods. Good lord, just imagine if we had another smartphone option to choose from!

-spence

Uh . . . savings for the US taxpayer??? When has our beloved, benevolent, debt racking Federal Government shown an honest interest in doing that? And haven't the wealthy gained economic ground against the not wealthy under Obama's tax the rich policies?

Ok, so now we should reinvest in Cold War tension to inflame a region already dependent on Russian energy? I'm not against using our natural gas surplus to help the EU become more independent, but balancing strategic weapons against home heating will come at quite a cost.

I think Russia has over-reached with Crimea. They may succeed in keeping it, but I don't think it's going to gain them much. It's a novelty prize for Putin if anything and will only accelerate Ukraine's status in the EU assuming they can get their crap together.

I think if Russia tries to annex the east and capture most of Ukraine's industrial output you'll see civil war...they don't want that.

The bigger picture is Russian and Chinese influence in the Middle East and Asia.

-spence

If "we" and "We" tended to all that we are supposed to tend, Russia and China, with the way their "we" and "We" operate, would dissolve into irrelevance.

Sorry, I had to deal with kids so I just condensed my stream.

But in the real world our defense and our economy are completely interwoven. This has been a big reason for the growth of the US economy and the growth of the global economy. It was a marriage of convenience more than an ideological motivation.

I think the question today is if they're so interwoven so as to be inseparable.

But so much of the "defense investment" has already been diverted to other projects through the Constitutionally appropriated system. It's not just providing for common defense, it's a yearly 1.5 trillion dollar tax recycler pumping billions back into our GDP and employing millions of workers.

Nonsense. You just saw a winter Olympics not more than 280 miles from where anonymous troops (wearing uniforms they picked up at the local Cabellas) are harassing Ukrainian troops. That's the distance from Providence to Philadelphia.

Neighbor Poland is the fastest growing economy in the EU and Belarus, Slovakia, Hungary, Turkey even Georgia are all doing impressively well.

Perhaps this is why Putin is so interested in Crimea, Russia is on the defensive.

Instead of investing in military I think more money has been invested to helping nations stabilize and build growth economies.

They are not different domains if your domain is the overlay between the weapons and the home. An investment in armament has to be paid twice, once the the actual arms and again for the influence to position them.

-spence

Of course they are not different domains in your preferred form of government.

But in a republican form (small "r") with limited government and constitutional separation of powers, and wherein that government is limited to specific defined duties, the domains are separate. And the investment in the U.S. armament, no matter how many times it's paid, is the domain of the Federal government. Investment in "the home" is the domain of the private sector. Federal Government "investment" in the private sector responsibility has more often been a debilitating intrusion on the People's ability to grow and self-govern. The Federal Government would perform its duties, including arming the military, far better if it stuck to its domain instead of spreading its, and the Peoples, resources and efforts over every facet of our lives.

You seem to be so immersed in progressive status quo that nothing else can creep into your perception of possibility. You seem to have that Dr. Pangloss vision that we're in the best of all possible worlds.

Many wise and thoughtful posts on this issue. How long does anyone think it will be before Putin moves on the rest of the country? Who would actually stand up to him?
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Apparently not much brain power being used in this thread.

Once again how arrogant and stupid Obama is.Its not our part of the world...stay away moron and let the Russians do the work for you.

He reset the clock all the way back to the Cold War . This is embarrassing .
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So, what should we be doing then?

It is embarrassing. But he is damned no matter what he does. If he did nothing.. he's viewed as a weak president. If he acts, he is kicking us back into the cold war... no win here...

its better to have a huge mystery to distract everyone, like a missing plane.

He needs to stop making threats he can't back up. The three idiots should just keep their mouth shut.
His policies are all over the place. We arm Al Qaeda, but we can't send arms to the Ukrainians. His spoken words make matters worse .
I agree stay out of it .
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Be specific.

-spence

In Obamas world this is specific
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That's exactly what Putin planned all along after sizing up the administration's
actions, laying down red lines without back up, Kerry saying "sanctions would not be personal to Putin", and all the way back to the apology tour.
The statement by the President that because we are not in the 19th century and things have changed since, is so naïve. Human nature has never changed from day one. POWER will always be the ultimate goal.
Heard a statement the other day, "it's the KGB vs the PTA."

We said we'd work with the EU to impose sanctions and that's exactly what happened. It's an annoyance more than anything but there's not a lot we can do short-term.

It's a great opportunity to make fun of the President though, keep up the good work :btu:

-spence

It's not making fun of the President, It's looking at the Administrations Policy
failures and misjudgments.

What specific Obama Administration policy is a failure? If anything this represents a lack of long-term strategy to contain Russia's influence.

-spence

Nobody got time for dat !
It would take hours
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