Yup, got attacked from someone, let's invade the wrong country :shocked: We don't need none of that Science stuff w/their big words and fancy charts.

"time and time again these things get packaged as if they showed up Since Obama?"

I have never heard anyone say that either terrorism or street crime, originated under Obama. I will say that the policies Obama endorses, make both of those things worse. He inherited a stable Iraq, pulled out against the advice of many, which allowed ISIS to form, and now that region is far worse off than when he took office. As far as crime goes...we have newly elected liberal mayors in NYC and Chicago...and murders are through the roof. WDMSO, I follow the evidence, and I base my conclusions on evidence, and form my opinions on evidence. Most of our inner cities have been controlled by Democrats for 50 years. It's not working. Look at NYC. In the 1980's, it was a war zone. Rudy Guiliani gets elected, imposes conservative anti-crime principles, and we saw a huge drop in murders - a HUGE drop. Then they elect a liberal twit, who does away with everything Rudy did, and immediately, murders are way up. How else can those facts be interpreted, other than my conclusion that Rudy was right, and Deblasio was wrong? Please tell me, what other conclusion is there? Because I honestly don't get how anyone can deny the reality that's staring us in the face. It's not theory, we have actual, empirical evidence. If muderers went down under Deblasio, I would arrive at a different conclusion...but they didn't, they skyrocketed.

"the right loves to blame progressives or liberals "

I don't think conservatives are always right - not by a long shot. I am pro gay marriage, and I think we need more common sense inour gun laws - not more laws necessarily, but ones that make more sense.

Extremism exists on both sides, and is rarely productive.

Here's some evidence Jim...

In 2014, De Blasio's first year as mayor there were 333 homicides in NYC, about the same number at the end of Bloomberg's stint.

In 2015 the number of homicides "went through the roof" with a recorded 339 homicides.

That's a YoY increase of .98%

Spence, I gotta tell you, I'd be a lot more inclined to respond to your posts, if you would shoe me the same courtesy, and explain why Hilary wasn't lying (as she claims she wasn't) when she said she came under sniper fire? if you won't respond, and we all see you won't, can you at least tell us why you won't respond? The woman just said on TV that she doen't believe she has ever told a lie.

In any event...in this article, which isn't exactly flattering to Rudy G, admits that when he was mayor, violent crime dropped by 56% in NYC...not bad.

http://www.businessinsider.com/criti...-theory-2013-8

And in this article, they say murder rates for 2015 (which wasn't final when the article was written) were upo 8% over 2014...

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/articl...s-his-analysis

Spence, can you name an urban city, long-controlled by Democrats, that's better off now than it was 50 years ago? Here in CT, I can point to New Haven, Hartford, and Bridgeport. All controlled exclusively by Democrats for 50 years, and all going right down the toilet. Maybe there's no correlation between th eparty in charge and the decline in thos eplaces. But maybe we can try something different, just to see.

Anyway, we all await your honest and thoughtful insight on Hilary's position that she has never told a lie...

again More of the same almost true statements


seem you buy into "More whites than blacks are victims of deadly police shootings,


Over the span of more than a decade, 2,151 whites died by being shot by police compared to 1,130 blacks. In that respect

However, Brian Forst, a professor in the Department of Justice, Law and Criminology at American University, said this difference is predictable.

"More whites are killed by the police than blacks primarily because whites outnumber blacks in the general population by more than five to one," Forst said. The country is about 63 percent white and 12 percent black.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...whites-blacks/

You think my side is hesitant to discuss this, or unwilling to offer solutions?

Sadly you may be one of the few that see common sense changes are needed

But you get drowned out by those who's Solutions is

“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun”

It's obvious Jim has a different theory of interpretation than you. You should save yourself the frustration of trying to persuade him to think like you do and just agree to disagree with him.

Why are you infatuated with Hillary Clinton? It's like, obsessive.

Fess up, I think you have a little Hillary shrine on a shelf on the office wall.

You missed " the law abiding citizen" part
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Good point, I'd wager more innocent black people are shot than white at a much higher rate.

I didn't say innocent I said law abiding . How's 50 bucks sound ?
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Apparently Caucasions are not taking enough advantage of their white privilege when it comes to getting shot by white police. Probably the white police aren't allowing white folks the equal opportunity to get shot. If we can't somehow instill, maybe through the public school system, a fervent desire in whites to demand greater equality in the shootings, maybe the DOJ can order State and local police departments to also shoot a white person every time they kill a black one. Maybe an executive order might be required. If the government doesn't correct the inequality, white folks should take to the streets and demand equal opportunity to get shot by white policemen. They could probably shut down and burn more towns than blacks can since there are so many more whites. No equal shootings, no justice.

Asians should also join in on the fight for equality to get shot. They get shot by police only at half the rate as whites. Hispanics and Native Americans also need to more greatly assert their right to be shot by white police since they get killed by police at less than half the rate as blacks.

The Guardian newspaper is running a database, The Counted, tracking US killings by police and other law enforcement agencies in 2015, and counted 1140 killed, with rates per million of 2.92 for "white" people, 7.2 for "black", and 3.5 for "hispanic/latino", 1.34 for "Asian/Pacific Islander", and 3.4 for "Native American". The database can be viewed by state, gender, race/ethnicity, age, classification (e.g., "gunshot"), and whether the person killed was armed.[5]

The Government obviously needs to crack down on rampant racist white cop shootings and make them more equal. The problem is so persistent that very severe methods to create equal opportunity to be shot by police, especially white ones, need to be taken.

What question are you trying to answer?

Why are white people so evil?

Again a broad statement.. how do you define a Law Abiding Citizen

And since when are the police the judge Jury and executioner of the Law abiding citizens..

I work in a prison with convicted non law abiding Citizens.. and I do not have the liberty to smash them in the face if they don't do as I ask .. and those officers who do lose their jobs rather quickly .. the same should apply to officers on the street

2015 U.S. police killed 776 people, 161 of whom were completely unarmed at the time of their death.

its the unarmed ones thats my concern .. if you have a gun or a knife in your hand or going for it .. Id shoot you dead

I would think that you would know sometimes you just what's in the hand or pocket . I agree that on those very few times an officer blatantly kills somebody he should be convicted and get the maximum sentence .
Back to the topic.
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Kalamazoo, Michigan: Six shot dead in 'random' attacks

Sorry this is off topic he wasn't Muslim or Black

Horrible and cowardly . Your point ?
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What was the reason the non-Muslim, non-black man killed six people? If motive can be found, steps can be taken to prevent some further murders.

What was the motive for the Muslim couple to kill 14 people and wound 21 others in San Bernadino?

If the motive was religious jihad, what steps can be taken to prevent more of the same?

Should we be concerned about various groups whose words and creeds appear, or specifically say, that those outside their creed are considered inferior and should be subjugated or exterminated? White racists groups, for instance? Would such groups naturally inspire caution and fear in those outside of their belief system?

He's trying to show that, because not everyone who commits murder is black or muslim, therefore there is no valid reason for whites to be concerned about violence in those groups.

How anyone can think that, is beyond me, but that's what he's trying to show

In Kalamazoo, Mich. I bet blacks don't commit a lot of murder id Fargo, ND either.

Looking for motive outside a criminal investigation.. tends only to help the living make excuses why things happen (hence the OP) .. knowing ones motive has little impact on future prevention of heinous acts carried out by individuals and gives little solace to The Familys left behind

So preventing Muslims from exercising their 2a right or shooting an AK47 is not prevention.. Its control and discrimination cloaked in doing the right thing

I'm pretty sure the FBI , most in law enforcement, and anybody with any common sense at all , would disagree .
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Mental illness is not a crime, however the fact that this country has failed to find a proper way to care for these folks is criminal.
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You are correct. In their opinion, they were doing the right thing. They no doubt would have considered your mind to be twisted. And would have considered it controlling and discriminatory on your part if you accused them of it. Nothing to fear there. As you said, whites mostly kill whites, blacks kill blacks, and Muslims kill Muslims.

Are Muslims mostly killing Muslims in this country? Or in Europe or Canada? Or in the "Western" part of the world?

Oh, there are those wonderful occasional honor killings.

Hispanics aren't a race either.....
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http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...1&d=1456066205

Does this guy remind anyone else of someone we know?

I saw this and thought the same. :hihi:
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No comment
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Our guy is handsomer.

It's certainly a big part of the problem.

Case in point, there wasn't a single reference to the Kalamazoo Uber shootings on the Sunday shows this weekend by Presidential candidates (or even questions) yet had this guy been a Muslim people would be hoarding bottled water and duct tape.

You're right, terrorism is a nonissue ....carry-on
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Fixed it for you
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You didn't fix it for me, I'm not nuts .
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The Muslim clerics of Iran and their Supreme leader are the leading arbiters of Shia Muslim "interpretation" of Islam. Their version of "peace" differs from the Saudi belief (the epicenter of Sunni "interpretation) only insofar as one is Shia and the other is Sunni. And either depiction of peace differs from ISIS (which claims to be Sunni) mostly in degree, and in the desire of any of them to maintain their own power.

The Saudi Shia leaders behead scores of people every year. ISIS (the so-called "extremists" who we want to believe are not truly Muslim) will have to go a long way to equal the number of beheadings executed by Saudi Arabia which we are to believe is the head of a supposedly true and "moderate" form of Islam.

Iran, representing the true and "moderate" Shia version of Islam, has its own hundreds of executions every year. But it also, as a matter of Koranic decree, executes and supports terrorism outside of its borders. In case we have forgotten about the fatwa against Salman Rushdie, it has been reinvigorated and the bounty has immensely grown:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0928f5a6d2287

Of course, we're not supposed to be "biased" against this religion which is the most biased and terroristic one than any other major faith. It is, as we are supposed to believe, the religion of peace.

Jeff, to use your words "apples and oranges". Although I am not surprised that you choose to compare a person who lost his marbles to an act which is as heinous as the San Bernadino shootings. It would be difficult to prevent either situation but the intent part of the discussion is evident to most sensible folks.
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I wasn't comparing Kalamazoo to San Bern.

I am not sure what your point was then. We are being targeted in our own country by religious extremists and thousands have lost their lives. If your point is we,as a society have over reacted to these acts of terror then you simply are not paying attention. When a nut like we have in Kalamazoo or the person who shot up the abortion clinic in Colorado does not get the attention from the media that you think they deserve the comparison becomes embarrassing.
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