I'm getting a headache and a sore thumb....

You need to actually reread what you posted.
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I don't know what a payday lendor is. A place to cash a check? Don't you need some kind of id to do that?

That is NOT what I said....I said he walked IN with his social security card and walked OUT with his ID


pretty much everybody that is eligible to vote....should have a valid SSN, correct

YOu said "My son walked in with his social security card....how much do those cost?"

And I replied "So I can just walk in emptyhanded and walk out with a SS card? Didn't know I could do that."

So I didn't change or misinterpret anything. I was asking a question. Did your son walk in emptyhanded to the SS office or did he go in with a birth certificate?

I think some people don't have SS #s. Don't know how they get by but that is what I have heard.

Just as you don't know, I don't know what they requre. The point is people live off the grid or live differently from you and I. A lot of people don't have bank accts., make so little $ they might not file taxes, etc.

If they live off the grid...then why should they vote?

And living off the grid has nothing to do with being a minority

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We did the responsible thing.....we got it for him when he was born
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I guess we can change the Constituion to prevent them from voting. Right?

" A lot of people don't have bank accts"

Then in order to cash checks, they need an id. Never heard of a place that cashes checks without an id.

"The point is people live off the grid "

True. And here in CT, every single one of those people (at least until recently, maybe it changed?), has to get to their town hall to register to vote. If they can do that, maybe they can get an id.

Paul, what if those people show up to vote, to find out that someone else voted in their name? Are they better served that way? It's designed to protect the integrity of the process. At least in theory. If, in practice, people of one demographic are more turned off by voting requirements that apply to us all - that's their choice.

And you keep quoting that guy who said that voter ids woul dgive PA to Romney? Well, Romney didn't win PA in 2012. So maybe that guy isn't as credible as a source on these things, as you think he is.

There are hoops that we all have to jump through, in order to vote. The hoops are not based on race, despite your claims to the contrary. Nothiing you have said, substantiates your claim that it's harder for blacks to get a photo id (other than a driver's license). It will be harder for people who live far away...that's not based on race, that's based on where one chooses to live.

Maybe they should provide proof that they are covered by the constitution?

How could they do that? Hmmmm
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Pls. point out where I said it was racist? It affects minorities more (who vote Democratic more). I think Tysdad was the person who mentioned racism 1st and then Cool Beans made an assinine comment (but he hasn't come back to follow up so I'm a little unsure what he meant).

It is nothing more than an attempt to lower voting by groups that vote more for Dems. There is no fraud so there is no reason to do it.

Why disenfranchise so many voters if as you agree there is so little fraud?

Exactly...
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You never said it was racist.....but you most certainly through the minority card around.

Jims point is that the minority thing has nothing to do with it...which it doesn't....

But it sure does seem like people like to throw the minority card around lately

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And it looks like the straw man racist card gets thrown around a lot here and quickly.

Scotts not wrong.....and tysdad was just being a wise ass
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"Pls. point out where I said it was racist?"

Are you serious? You posted this..."minorities don't have as much access to other legally forms such as Passports, military IDs or other government-issued photo ID"

Your were saying that Republicans favor voter id laws, because that will suppress black turnout, because of the reduced acceess you claim (falsely, and without even trying to support it) minorities have to these ids.

If you lose an argument, better to admit that you lost it, than to deny you made it in the first place.

"It affects minorities more (who vote Democratic more)."

That's a choice on their part, a choice not to bear the burden placed on all voters. It's not because of institutional bias.

"There is no fraud "

None? How many examples would you like us to post of voter fraud? It's not rampant, but of course it exists.

"Why disenfranchise so many voters if as you agree there is so little fraud"

(1) What fraud? Didn't you say in your previous sentence, "there is no fraud"? And now all of a sudden, there is a little fraud? Which is it? (2) To answer your question, we do this because we can reduce the fraud even more. Less fraud is good, isn't it? It will only disenfranchise people if they choose to let it disenfranchise them. It doesn't prevent anyone from voting.

Wow.

soft bigotry of low expectations.....

Of course there is fraud - it is so small to be meaningless. If you want to base your whole arguement on the little/no fraud statement go ahead. You'll just look petty. And of course less fraud is good but when 0,000s of 0,000s of people don't get to vote bc you are trying to reduce the minimal (almost non existent) fraud, the costs outway the benefits.


The fact is Repubs. will do anything they can to prevent people from voting whether by Id laws, shortening polling times, refusing to allow people to automatically be registered to vote when they get drivers licenses (and you can comment on that if you want) or any other innovative way to vote. And that is Pathetic.

You can't make that wrong.

Paul, I agree that a higher % of blacks don't have driver's licenses than whites. I get that, I do. That's not remotely the issue here, because YOU DON'T NEED A DRIVER'S LICENSE TO VOTE. You can get an alternate photo id. So what I don't get, and what you haven't explained, is this - why is it harder for blacks (who don't have driver's licenses) to get an alternate photo id, than it is for whites (who don't have driver's licenses) to get that alternate photo id? The process of getting that id is the same for everybody, so why is it more problematic for blacks?

If you have 100 blacks, and 100 whites, none of whom have driver's licenses...and you have voter id laws...why is it harder for the blacks to get the alternate photo id, than it is for whites?

"Don't think I ever mentioned blacks - did I?"

You said "minorities". Are blacks a minority, or no? This is exhausting, I posed the only pertinent question above, if you cannot answer it, we all know what that means.

"0,000s of 0,000s of people don't get to vote"

Correction - they choose not to vote. It's a free country. If they can't be bothered to get to town hall to get a photo id like the rest of us, that's on them. Maybe they need a history lesson on the price we have paid to safeguard their right to vote every November. if you don't know what I mean, look at the photos of Arlington National Cemetary.

too funny....what's next?..."of course there's lots of fraud and in fact...it justified!"

seems to me that same folks that want anyone to be able to vote without any identification shown are the same people that are always remarking about how stupid the average voter is....interesting

As I said, "it is so small to be meaningless". Is it a wonder I think you're snarky?

snarky but I still love you :kewl:

that's just an opinion by the way

Shortening polling times? That helps Republicans? According to your stereotypes of why blacks can't get ids, I would think that shortening poling times helps blacks (and therefore Dems), because they are mor elikely to be hoe all day, and thus can go vote. While the white conservative sare at work all day, making it harder for them to vote.

Can't have it both ways.

"refusing to allow people to automatically be registered to vote when they get drivers licenses (and you can comment on that if you want)"

Fine. Here in CT, you are saying that the GOP is preventing automatic registration? How is that, when the GOP doesn't control anything?

I would suppor that, by th eway, that automatic registration. I reject th enotion that the GOP is blocking it, at least here in CT, because the Dems have conteolled the legislature as long as I have been alive.

I've been to Arlington - thanks.

I'm still confused why the discussion went from minorities to blacks and why the discussion isn't on why Repubs seem to want to do anything they can to keep the vote count down.

no, not in Conn.

"I don't know all the reasons but there is a % of minorities (and yes blacks) who find it hard get the appropriate ID."

You're smart. if you don't know the reasons, they can't be wide-spread reasons.

Hard. Not impossible. It's "hard" for me to get up an hour earlier to go vote before work. But since I don't work near where I live, I can only vote before work. It sucks getting up early, but I choose to do it. Others don't care enough. I'm not inclined to allow people to vote on-line just to make it easier for them.

You said it - hard. Those people can choose to do what is hard, or they can choose not to do what is hard. All that matters is this - it's their choice to make. The GOP isn't making that choice for them.

"I'm still confused why the discussion went from minorities to blacks "

Fine - minorities.

"Repubs seem to want to do anything they can to keep the vote count down"

The GOP can't keep the vote down. If the vote is down, it's because people freely choose not to vote.

What time are most polls open? 12 hours? if you want to extend it, I guess I have no problem with that. But only one day. We all vote on the same day, that's the way it works.

Funny, Here in CT, in the last 2 gubernatorial elections, the Dems did just that - they extended voting hours! In 2010, it turns out there weren't enough ballots in the city of Hartford (I mean, who knew you needed enough ballots on election day?), so they kept the polls open later, just in Hartford, long enough for everyone to vote. I wonder which candidate that helped?

Then, in 2014, something happened in Bridgeport, and guess what? The Dems forced the polls to stay open longer, just in the city of Bridgeport. Again, I wonder who that helped?

I think I heard that the polls are already open in New Haven, for the 2018 gubernatorial election.

Whatever it takes.

Both sides use repugnant tactics. We all deserve better, you are correct there. And I'm not do dishinest that I'd deny that the GOP has an agenda when it proposes these laws. But the fact is, it only has the efefct desired by the GOP, if people choose to act the way that the GOP is banking on.

I often wonder what this "straw man" with no I.D. does all day...

Can't drive a car
Can't rent an apartment (most require background and credit checks on top of ID)
Can't go fishing
Can't go hunting
Can't cash a check
Can't open a bank account
Can't get a credit card
Can't check out a book at the library
Can't purchase a firearm
Can't apply for Food stamps or welfare

There is not a lot in life you can do without some form of I.D.

I cannot believe there is more than a small fraction of 1 percent of the population that doesn't have some form of I.D.

This whole story is just B.S. to stir up the uninformed...... and to stir up racial issues.

Largely this on both sides of the aisle... Fraud vs. no I.D.

If photo ID suppresses the vote, and we are concerned about the affect on "minorities" versus "whites" (which is obviously a racial comparison--so saying that one is talking about "minorities" not race is BS), and owning a car, thereby of necessity having a valid photo ID, makes it easier to get a photo ID, then, by raw number, more whites would be affected by requiring a photo ID to vote. A 2006 study by Univ. of Cal. Berkeley showed that white households were 40.6% of those without a car. Blacks were 30.5%, Hispanic were 22%, and other were 5.7%. So, though a greater percentage of whites may have owned cars than the percentage owned by other races, the actual raw number of whites not owning cars was much higher than the numbers of any of the other races.

If you never needed them(ID's) to Vote back in the day then why have the laws been changed? ( the voter fraud that dosn't exist?) and what party is driving the voter ID bus Bus


Voter ID Laws go back to 1950 when South Carolina became the first state to start requesting identification from voters at the polls. The identification document did not have to include a picture; any document with the name of the voter sufficed

it was ok then but now it's not

VOTING IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT, NOT A PRIVILEGE... and 2A guys use this argument GUN OWNERSHIP IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT, NOT A PRIVILEGE.. against gun registration

another example of supporting the constitution when convenient

and if smells like a fish swims like one its probably a fish

"why have the laws been changed?"

We changed laws recently on gay marriage. We learn, things change, laws change.

"what party is driving the voter ID "

The GOP, no doubt. But voter id requirements only serve to suppress Democrat turnout, if Democrats are less likely than Republicans to go get an id. You cannot make that wrong. Maybe if the Democrat motto wasn't "gimme gimme gimme", then registered Democrats would be just as likely to get the id as Republicans.

Do yoy deny that it's no harder for a Democrat to get an id, than it is for a Republican?

"VOTING IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT, NOT A PRIVILEGE"

How do voter id laws infringe upon that right? I could argue that they safeguard that right, rather than infringe it, because if we have voter id laws, then no one can claim to be me and steal my vote.

I don't believe a Constitutional Right to Vote exists (not an enumerated fundamental right)

The "right to vote" is not explicitly stated in the U.S. Constitution except in the above referenced amendments(equal protection), and only in reference to the fact that the franchise cannot be denied or abridged based solely on the aforementioned qualifications. In other words, the "right to vote" is perhaps better understood, in layman's terms, as only prohibiting certain forms of legal discrimination in establishing qualifications for suffrage. States may deny the "right to vote" for other reasons. For example, many states require eligible citizens to register to vote a set number of days prior to the election in order to vote. More controversial restrictions include those laws that prohibit convicted felons from voting, even those who have served their sentences.

pretty good article explaining the model

http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...tes-in-chicago

One event in 1982 = a model

Keep rubbing.

Different fish smell and swim in different ways. The gun owning fish are not the same as the fish who vote. It may seem very fishy to you, but that's the way it is.