You sure? The taxes are dirt cheap and they don’t give unions a blank check.
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Why are people from CT moving all the way down there to be near liberal cities, when there are plenty of liberal cities here to choose from? Low taxes maybe?
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So is Asheville, in that county Clinton beat Trump by 14 points...as did most cities in NC or by more...I think in CLT she was up by 30.

I guess the next question would be if Trump's base is benefiting from the current economic environment or if it's mostly going to the Dems.

Democrat in the the south, doesn’t always mean liberal. And you say that Nashville and Charlotte are booming, but not the suburbs? Hate to disagree with you. Most people are moving to the suburbs, and many of the nicest suburbs are absolutely white hot.
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I keep hearing its only trumps base that's benefiting from his policies. You just make stuff up as you go along now? You fault the gop because 51 is less than 60, now you are concerned that only liberals are benefitting from trumps policies?
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The base that elected trump doesn't seem to be benefiting from his current policy.
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Who would that be exactly? Because people who work and have IRAs and pay taxes, are doing insanely well. Stock market up, unemployment down, tax rates down, companies giving bonuses and raises. Who do you suppose his base is? Who isn’t benefitting, exactly? I’m all ears.
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A number of reasons including low taxes. But they sure as hell aren't moving to the hills of North Carolina or Tennessee for example that are not near a liberal City.
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I agree liberal-conservative certainly doesn't mean the same down south as it as up north. But again when someone from Connecticut decides to move to Tennessee they look at Nashville and then the surrounding area. They don't look for a area that is not near Nashville.
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Correct they aren’t moving to hillbilly country. my Point is this..there are cities that offer all the attractive things that CT offers, at far less cost. Not all southern cities offer a comparable quality of life but some do. Those places are beating us.
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For the same reason that most people in CT don’t live in the boonies. Many people like to be near a city for restaurants, music, sports, healthcare, etc. I don’t think it’s the politics of Nashville and Charlotte that attracts people. It’s the fact that it’s a city. Most people
Like suburbs not remote rural areas
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She's in her 3rd year at Wake Forest, we went out there for Parents weekend and tacked on a few extra days to visit friends out in Asheville that just moved down there outta MA. Also hooked up with another friend down in Charlotte....who also moved outta MA a few years ago.

Asheville had that whole Portland ME vibe to it. they have a great Music scene, great restaurants, and of course great beer.

Really liked Charlotte as well, pretty clean city that offers sports and great BBQ. :-) Wouldn't want to live there because I'm not a fan of city living, but is a nice option to have relatively close by.

I'm sure, just like any state, they have their $hithole areas (yeah, I used THAT word :hihi:) but for the whole of what we saw we liked it.

As far as NC goes the "Hills" of North Carolina is where Ashville is located and that area is on the upswing. Sierra Nevada just opened up a brand new State of the art Green brewery in Mills River just 10 minutes outside Ashville that created 100's of jobs. Oskar Blues just opened up a new east coast brewery in Brevard, which is about 30 minutes outside Ashville.

Its becoming an area for a lot of small business growth as well. it is definitely not hillbilly area by any stretch, the growth is actually being fueled more by millennials than anything else, I'll just have to look past the Man-bun

Ashville is very liberal and expensive by NC standards, cheap by New England standards.

I couldn't care less, I care about getting more bang for my buck.

I live in friggin Massachusetts for gods sake, you think I'm worried about mingling with liberals.
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No, I don't think you care at all. Prob. never enters your mind. Can't say the same about Jim. I think it consumes him.

Which is why they are clobbering New England.

[QUOTE=Jim in CT;1135776
If those places are as crappy as you said, they would not all be on Amazon's list of finalists. Note that CT was bounced in the first round, but TN and NC are among the finalists.

[/QUOTE]

And all of the 20 cities (except I think Indiapolis) are liberal. So which of the following 20 cities do you think are conservative? I've entered my guesses.

Austin, Tex. – liberal
Boston– liberal
Chicago– liberal
Columbus, Ohio – Voted 80% for Obama
Dallas – 2nd most liberal city in Texas after Austin
Denver– liberal
Indianapolis - conservative
Los Angeles– liberal
Miami – leans liberal
Montgomery County, Md. – liberal
Nashville– liberal
Newark– liberal
New York– liberal
Northern Virginia– liberal
Philadelphia– liberal
Pittsburgh– liberal
Raleigh, N.C. – liberal
Toronto– liberal
Washington– liberal

Austin is Liberal.

Wake Forest is an awesome school. Congratulations, you all did a lot of things right, for her to end up there.

Sure, the Carolinas have their awful areas, as do CT and Mass. But unlike CT and Mass, they also have great areas that are much cheaper than anything you can find in CT or Mass. CT doesn't have a singe city that's (1) a great place to live, and (2) has low taxes and a low cost of living.

That's the advantage that the Carolinas offer, and they are taking advantage of it, to the detriment of CT. Our tax revenue is decreasing because people are leaving. But our expenses are increasing at the same time. Worst combination.

This summer, my 11 year-old has a big karate tournament in Greensboro. We'll spend 2 days there, then 2 days in the Charlotte suburbs to see a friend who fled CT for NC, then to the Outer Banks for a week.

TDF, you know what I've heard about Charlotte? On the outskirts of the city are areas that look and feel like suburbs, but are technically still part of the city. I don't know why more cities don't do that, I would imagine a lot of people would like to live on a suburban type street but be very close to the downtown.

I'm a huge fan of BBQ, looking forward to trying some in NC this summer.

How many cities that are mid-size or larger, aren't left of center?

People from CT are not moving to the Nashville suburbs because they like the liberal politics of the city of Nashville. Nor are people from CT moving to the Charlotte suburbs because they like the liberal politics of the city of Charlotte. They are moving to the Nashville /Charlotte suburbs because it's a much better bargain than the CT suburbs. They want to be near the cities of Nashville/Charlotte, because regardless of politics, many people like to be near a city for the food, music, sports, etc...

You are bending over backwards in a desperate attempt to convince yourself that there is zero connection between Connecticut's brand of liberalism, and the fact that people are moving to the Carolinas and TN.

If people in CT want to live near a smallish city that's liberal, they would stay right where they are, Hartford is plenty liberal.

Yeah, we stayed out of her way :hihi:

Yep, when my buddy moved down there about 5 years ago he moved into a neighborhood in Charlotte that had that feel. he paid $35k cash for a small 2 BR house w/ a small backyard. just perfect for him.

Good place for BBQ in Greensboro, we ate there last visit. very reasonably priced too.

http://www.country-bbq.com/

But you have constantly said here that the liberal cities suck or other vile terms. Now you're changing your arguement. It is tough to discuss something with someone who constantly changes their arguement.

I'm not the one bending over backwards - you are. You said 'liberal cities" earlier and discussed Charlotte (which is liberal). You brought up Amazon and used NC and TN as examples. But Amazon didn't say "NC" and "TN" - they specifically said the liberal cities in those states. They aren't looking to move to somewhere out in the country - they want the liberal cities. You defeated your own arguement.

"But you have constantly said here that the liberal cities suck or other vile terms"

Liberalism has been an economic disaster for CT, unless you are in a public labor union, or unless you are wealthy. You may disagree. But I can make a very compelling case.

People are fleeing CT, and moving to right-leaning states because of the lower cost of living. You think that because there are left-leaning cities near where people are moving (though not liberal by CT standards), that means that liberalism isn't to blame for people leaving CT, nor is conservatism the reason that people are moving south.

Paul, I'll keep it simple. People are leaving CT because it's too expensive, and moving to places that are every bit as nice as CT, but much cheaper. That's not me bending over backwards, that's stating the obvious.

I say that CT's liberalism is to blame for the high cost here, and that southern conservatism gets credit for their ability to offer a similar quality of life at lower cost.

Jim, I have watched you clobber CT(for good reason) for years but you still live there. If there are so many more desirable cities and states in the country then why are you still in CT? What is preventing you from giving you and your family a better life? I remember when RIJimmy moved to Texas years ago from MA for that reason alone,I hope he is happy.
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A fair question which I get a lot. My parents are 80 and not doing great physically, and live a mile away from me and my family. They see my kids at least 4-5 times a week, it's very healthy and beneficial for my kids and my parents. My wife is a stay-at-home mom, and spends a fair amount of time running errands with/for my parents. They'd be completely screwed if my family and I left. But I know exactly what it's costing me. I'll retire several years later than I would if I lived near Charlotte, which would by our choice. My retirement will be years shorter.

My guess is that they would follow you. Good luck
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If that were true we'd be there. I have 3 other brothers in CT, with 5 more grandchildren for them, they will never leave CT.

Every once in awhile I try to convince us all to leave. Never works.

I figure CT is going to be unable to pay its bills within 10 years, they will go through some kind of insolvency (no mechanism today for states to do it, from what I understand, maybe they'll create it for CT), and maybe come out better on the other side.

In 2017, our state almost imploded because our budget had no money for a $1 billion payment to pensions. In a few years, the promised payments are $3 billion a year. Today we can't afford $1 billion, and our population (and therefore tax revenue) is shrinking, and in a few years we're supposed to pay $3 billion a year, for many years in a row. Ain't gonna happen.

Our unfunded debt is now estimated at $100 billion. There are 3 million citizens (and dropping) which works out to $33,333 for every one of us, on top of current taxes. That is what "failure" looks like.

And if you decide to join your brother:




By Lucas Peterson
Jan. 24, 2018

“Folsom Prison Blues,” the 1955 Johnny Cash classic, isn’t exactly a deep cut — anyone with even a passing familiarity with country music has heard it. So when the Don Kelley Band tore into the opening riff at the beginning of their set at Robert’s Western World — one of many honky-tonks on a brightly lit neon strip of Broadway in downtown Nashville — I nodded my head and tapped my feet along with the other hundred or so people in the joint. It was the musical equivalent of comfort food — nothing too surprising or challenging. I wasn’t quite ready for what happened next.

Luke McQueary, a skinny 17-year-old in a plaid Western-style shirt, stepped to the front of the stage and, instead of delivering the workmanlike guitar break I was expecting, set the stage aflame with a blistering solo I would have expected from someone twice his age and experience. It was no fluke — the virtuosity continued during the following song, performed with an earnest, almost Hendrix-like showmanship. I half expected someone to come out from the wings, wrap a robe around him, and help him off the stage, à la James Brown.

I was surprised, but I shouldn’t have been. A place nicknamed “Music City” has a reputation to uphold, and Nashville was more than ready to exceed my expectations. A mecca for talented musicians, Tennessee not only has more high-quality live music than you could ever hope to enjoy, but top-notch dining — both traditional Southern cooking and contemporary twists on old standards. It’s a great location for those on a budget, too — I scarcely noticed the damage to my wallet after a four-night trip there in November.

That area of Broadway is a little like the Las Vegas Strip or Bourbon Street: crowded and touristy, but fun in small doses. I visited there with my friend Halena Kays, with whom I crashed in nearby Murfreesboro, a suburb southeast of the city. We ended up at Robert’s Western World accidentally, as our plans to have dinner at nearby Merchants Restaurant, on the corner of Broadway and Fourth Avenue South, had hit a snag — the place was booked solid. No matter: We grabbed a $4 fried bologna sandwich (imagine a BLT — now imagine it twice as salty) and a couple of $4.25 Miller Lites at the honky-tonk while we listened to the aforementioned band.

Cramped and smoky, Santa's Pub is a favorite Nashville dive bar, with cold, cheap beer and live music.CreditJoe Buglewicz for The New York Times

I soon received a text that a table had opened up and we walked over to Merchant’s. The place effectively operates as two restaurants, a pricier steak and seafood restaurant on the second floor, and a less expensive, modern southern bistro on the ground floor. We opted for the latter and grabbed a booth in the bright, spacious dining room. The fried green tomatoes ($11) were spot-on, and the Nashville Caesar salad with cornbread croutons ($12), and a pulled pork sandwich ($13) were satisfying. One nice thing: When they saw we were sharing everything, they were happy to split the dishes into separate portions.

That strip of Broadway is just a stone’s throw from Ryman Auditorium, an indelible piece of Nashville history that belongs on every to-do list, especially if the Grand Ole Opry happens to be in residence. The Opry, an artistic home to country musicians since it began in 1925, takes place primarily at Opryland, about 25 minutes northeast of downtown. But if you can, see the show at the Ryman, home to the show from 1943-1974, which sometimes still hosts the Opry. The building itself is a relic — opened in 1892 as the Union Gospel Tabernacle, it earned the moniker “Mother Church of Country Music.” Near the back steps of its hallowed halls, Halena and I passed a young street performer with an amazing voice crooning a song I didn’t recognize. In Nashville, even the buskers have exceptional talent.

Tickets aren’t terribly cheap — the premium seats run close to $100 — but there’s a slight workaround. I picked up the cheapest tickets I could find: Two obstructed view seats for $48 apiece. (I also checked StubHub and other second-hand ticket sites; they weren’t helpful.) I was expecting to sit smack in front of a column — I wasn’t. The seats, on the main floor, right in the middle of the auditorium, were perfect. And while there was a thin pole in my line of sight, it didn’t bother me at all.

Onto the show — the Opry was one of the most pleasurable music performances I’ve attended in recent memory. After grabbing a $9 draft beer, we found our seats to the din of audience chatter and the buttery baritone of the evening’s announcer and M.C., Eddie Stubbs. The Opry functions simultaneously as a live radio show, broadcast on 650 AM WSM. If you’re familiar with public radio’s “Live from Here” (the show formerly known as “A Prairie Home Companion”), it functions in a similar way. Different acts come on and play just two or three songs — while that’s happening, the next act is hanging out in the wings, which gives the show a casual, collegial quality.


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Hot chicken with fried okra and french fries at Pepperfire.CreditJoe Buglewicz for The New York Times

An announcer’s podium is set up stage right, along with different producers and assistants working on their laptops — bands tune their instruments, guests chatter and banter with Mr. Stubbs, who also functions as an impeccable straight man, and the audience groans and chuckles while cheesy ad copy is read during the breaks. It’s a ton of fun. And then, of course, there’s the music.

“Connie Smith, ladies and gentlemen, the Rolls-Royce of country singers,” announced Mr. Stubbs, who then motioned for us to applaud. Traditional crooners like Ms. Smith were in the house, as was fresh-faced young man named William Michael Morgan, who played his debut single “I Met a Girl” (“He ain’t been off the teat long,” quipped Mike Snider, one of the other musicians).

Having discovered my inner country music fan, I stopped by the Country Music Hall of Fame ($25.95, but only $14 after 4 p.m; the museum closes at 5 p.m.) to continue my education. It’s easy to get lost in the overwhelming amount of history and information — but make sure you don’t miss, among other relics, Carl Perkins’s blue suede shoes (yes, those blue suede shoes), Elvis’s gold Cadillac (complete with refrigerator and swivel-mounted color TV) and some of Chet Atkins’s old guitars, including his first, a Sears Silverstone.

But there’s no substitution for live music. I made my way to the Bluebird Cafe, a popular, intimate venue that features local and established acts. Tickets are, well, extremely difficult to come by (it’s been showcased on the television show “Nashville”). They’re released weekly by the venue and space is tight, which means you have to be both lightning quick and lucky to nab a seat. If you’re in, you’re golden — tickets typically run in the $20 to $30 range. Cafe workers supposedly monitor Craigslist and ticket sites to crack down on scalping. If you’re not fortunate enough to snag online tickets (the likely case), you can wait in a queue that approaches the “Hamilton”-esque for one of 10 or so same-day tickets. I showed up at 7:30 one evening and the man at the door stifled a laugh. “Yeah, you’re not gonna make it in,” he said.

Down but not out, I headed over to Bransford Avenue to Santa’s Pub, a bar housed in a trailer that does live music on Sundays. After showing my ID to a man with a huge beard (was that Santa?), I headed inside, the top of my head almost brushing the ceiling of the double-wide. “No Cussin’, No Beer, No Cigarettes” read a sign on the back wall. Well, I counted all three. The place was cramped and smoky, like any respectable dive bar, and the beer was cold and cheap ($2 for a Pabst Blue Ribbon). The band, a five-piece outfit called Santa’s Ice Cold Pickers, was tight — their rendition of Ray Price’s “Crazy Arms” had me humming along.


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For those looking for a complete Southern meal, Arnold’s Country Kitchen offers the classic meat-and-three (main course and three side dishes).CreditJoe Buglewicz for The New York Times

Another highly enjoyable show I attended was at the Basement East, on the other side of the Cumberland River in East Nashville. The venue was decidedly less intimate than Santa’s or Bluebird, but I couldn’t complain about the program — a Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young tribute show, with proceeds benefiting Autism Speaks. For $10 (plus $2 service fee) I was treated to a Murderer’s Row of young, local talent. Highlights included Jesse Lynn Madera performing a lovely cover of “Don’t Let It Bring You Down” and Amber Woodhouse leading the excellent house band in a stirring rendition of “For What It’s Worth.”

While music is unquestionably the star of the Nashville scene, there are exceptional eats to enjoy between shows. Hot chicken, which has seen its star rise over the last decade, is one of the biggest attractions. I loved my crispy-skinned, exhilaratingly spicy leg quarter from Prince’s Hot Chicken ($5) which has no equal, in my opinion. But it also took an hour of waiting in line. It took no time to get my order at Pepperfire, another worthwhile hot chicken joint less than 10 minutes away from Prince’s. There, I dug into a Tender Royale, a spicy, deep-fried cheese sandwich topped with three chicken tenders ($12.49) with a strong, cumin-forward profile.

For those looking for a complete Southern meal, Arnold’s Country Kitchen is the place to find it. The classic meat-and-three (main course and three side dishes) runs just $10.74 for a huge tray full of food. I had a plate of thinly shaved roast beef with mac and cheese, tender greens and powerfully smoky pinto beans. Cafe Roze, a place with slightly healthier fare from New York-transplant Julia Jaksic, does a mean grain bowl called the Roze Bowl ($14) with beet tahini, black lentils and quinoa. And then there’s the happy hour at Chauhan Ale and Masala House, an Indian-Southern food fusion restaurant, where I got an order of lamb keema papadi nachos with a tamarind chutney ($6) that I still think about weeks after the fact.

But Nashville’s power to disarm and delight remains rooted in its music. When I attended the Opry, two guys who go by the handle LoCash strutted onto the stage in what came as the biggest surprise of the night. At first glance, LoCash seemed to epitomize the slick twang of everything I don’t particularly enjoy about modern country music — impeccably crafted facial hair, power chords and tacky clothes. Halena grabbed my arm, and I braced myself for awfulness.

Boy, was I wrong; these guys were fantastic performers. Within minutes, they had me and the rest of the audience eating out their hands — clapping and singing along to a song I’d never heard before. I don’t know if their exceedingly catchy “I Love This Life” will go down in the annals of country music’s great songs. But it was easily the most fun four minutes of the trip, and had me unironically singing the refrain the entire car ride home: I love a Friday night — man, I love this life.

Nashville is awesome - I can relate to this article. Interesting mix of old and new music. Had a blast there.

liberalism has zero to do why people are moving south and west ..

its about low housing costs and jobs namely Auto (non union) and gas and oil and baby boomers retirements moving south
why stay in MA making 15 bucks an hour when you can go to Tennessee make around the same and be able to afford your own place

Jobs in the NE have no longer manufacture based those commpanys screwed their employees in the 70s and 80's 90s and 2000s


Polaroid Corporation filed for federal bankruptcy protection on October 11, 2001

left executives of the company with large bonuses, while stockholders, as well as current and retired employees, were left with nothing.
lets not for get enron or the Subprime mortgage crisis but now we have a de regulation POTUS who will remove the regulation from the same industries . who created the need to impose the regulation in the 1st place???

Americans today are aware that corporate pensions have been virtually eliminated and that the few remaining private, as well as the nation’s public pensions, are in jeopardy. Even if you are among the lucky few that have a pension, you cannot rest assured that it will be there for all the years you’ll need it. Whether you know it or not, someone is busy trying to figure how to screw you out of your pension.

Americans also know the great 401k experiment of the past 30 years has been a disaster. It is now apparent that 401ks will not provide the retirement security promised to workers.

The signs of the coming retirement crisis are all around you. Who’s bagging your groceries: a young high school kid or an older “retiree” who had to go back to work to supplement his income or qualify for health insurance?

Faith in Companys and their big Tax break is unfounded and another nail in the coffin of the middle class

https://www.forbes.com/sites/edwards.../#b411c055b6fb

http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research...uth-west-again

WD - good advice. Before anyone relocates they should definitely look into the state and local pension obligations they have. Many communities have been over generous with tax payer funded public pensions. Taxpayers are now on the hook and taxes will overburden these communities/states.

The nails in the coffin of the middle class could slowly be removed by freeing up the market. Lower taxes and proper deregulation can only help. Without that, the nails are already implanted. And the status quo is a vector in the direction of more nails.

Of course, we can just go full socialism. Then we will all be in the same class (except for the privileged government administrators). I don't think you could call that class the middle. Maybe just something like "the proletariat."

You say people want to move to places that have a low cost of living and cheaper housing and better economic prospects. But you deny that has any connection to liberalism or conservatism.

Unless an individual wants to live near Manhattan or Boston so badly that they are willing to pay through the nose, then New England is a ripoff. Except for New Hampshire. But you see no political connection.

Enjoy your denial-fest.

its called seeing the world with both eyes open

you use the word liberalism as a universal cause to everything

the past 63 years since 1952 40 of those years republicans held the white house

the other 23 years the Dems

whos in denial??? not I

liberalism or conservatism. isn't left behind when you move to another state .. thats in your imagination

What about the states that are experiencing an exodus? Here is that list in order:

New Jersey
New York
Illinois
Connecticut
Ohio
Kansas
Massachusetts
West Virginia
Mississippi
Maryland

these states are all “true blue.” people are leaving these states on the quest for economic prosperity.

not to find political nirvana

What does that have to do with the taxes and cost of living in the states?

Has less to do with politics and more just about macro trends.

Fixed

Is that on the menu?