fun to watch old video clips of high ranking democrats and their views an immigration back when they differentiated between legal and illegal immigration....SAY WHAT!!!


https://youtu.be/728SW65tlU0?t=199

Ahh. So in spenceworld, murderers who have little kids, should not have to go to prison, because its bad to separate kids from parents.

I don’t like the separation, and 100% of the blame lies with the parents.
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Trump says it’s the Democrats fault
This administration has made the choice to charge all people who cross the border criminally rather than civilly.
This is America and we incarcerate a higher percentage of people than anybody else by far.
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....are you saying those incarcerated didn't earn it?

Sad for the children no doubt and the blame clearly is with the parents and the Mexican government. People fleeing abusive husbands, fear of death from gang violence and maybe a desire for the American dream; where is the support for those people in their own government? That is the real story hear, there wouldn't be a flood of people coming across if their own government and society was a decent environment to raise their own children and enjoy a safe productive life. There are people in the US with the same fears and they are making a run with children in tow to the Mexican border. Unfortunately the children are pawns in a very bad game of chess and nobody comes out the winner in this one.

You know who is winning? The people who own the private prisons that are housing all those kids. Connect the dots to the prisons investors and their ties to people who are in the government and I’m sure it all makes sense. But on the surface, this is wonderful news to the blue collar trump fan who would call those like us who care about what is right and wrong about how to respect a family a snowflake and tell us to go hide in our safe space.
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wait...all those kids are being sent to prisons?

The spike in separations is largely an attempt to gain leverage over democrats...

As for Obama, he was aggressively prioritizing criminals...nothing wrong with that.
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Yea, blame the women trying to seek asylum because the alternative is gang rape and murder.

As for the kids, many are just toddlers. There’s no scenario where taking them from a parent can be considered being well taken care of unless there’s danger to the child.
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Has said no one ever.

I hope you’re going to church this morning Jim.
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You bet I did. I get why people want what’s best for their
Kids. But not everyone who might want to come here, can come. There are limits.
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Under federal law, it is a crime for anyone to enter into the US without the approval of an immigration officer -- it's a misdemeanor offense But again comparing Inmates and separating them from their children is just another False equivalence the right love to use to justify an action


they even brought the bible in to the argument

I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13 to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained them for the purpose of order,” said Sessions

Saw this comment on line

I wish the pro-life community would get as upset with ripping a child from his mother's arms as the community does over ripping a child from his mother's womb. The illegal act should not be met with the evil act of separating a child from his parents

If this is supposed to be a deterrent, perhaps the government should just kill the kids. After all, if taking children from parents is a deterrent, surely killing the children will be even more of a deterrent. At this point we're just arguing about degrees of evil and monstrous acts.

Is there danger to the child by taking it illegally through hundreds of miles including many areas that are loaded with rapists and murderers and across two borders in order to, hopefully, arrive to an uncertain fate? Do you actually believe that is safer for the child than being in the custody of some legal child service agency or relative other than the parent until the situation can quickly be resolved?

And why do you keep asking Jim stuff such as going to church or what the Good Book says? Do you give a rat's azz about church or the Good Book? That's a pitiful, disgusting technique plied by leftists and the Muslim Brotherhood in order to use someone's beliefs or laws against them when you don't care about those beliefs except to use them as a weapon. And it's really pitiful when you don't even understand those beliefs well enough to do that.

wdmso doesn't approve of bringing the Bible into the argument. Maybe he should chastise you as he did the "right" for doing so. Naah. It's only bad for him, I guess, if the "right" does it.

I agree totally with what you say here--including the other Latin American governments from where the illegals come.

Oh give me an effing break. You're going to say with a straight face, that there is any equivalence whatsoever, between (1) temporary separating children from parents so the parents can be processed through the criminal justice system (and providing basic care for the kids during that time), and (2) slaughtering an unborn baby who by definition, hasn't done anything wrong?

And where was the moral outrage over this, from 2009 - 2016? Is this something Trump invented, or was this taking place when the Nobel Peace Prize winner was POTUS?

^

Best post on the topic.

Here is a photo from 2014. Is this Trump's fault? The Associated Press published this photo at the time, and no one cared. And the guy who was POTUS at the time, was probably polishing his Nobel Peace Prize when this photo was taken.

Jim,
That is a picture of a place they put unaccompanied minors upon arrival. Not the same thing.
Just another but............ to justify the current actions.
Of course it is the american way, lock them up, that will show them.

I did not hear many people screaming when Obama did it.

If I did something that had me go to jail, I would be separated from my children, even when they were young.

These people came in through back door, not front door. Hardly fair to those that waited in line and went through legal means.

This is a great political wedge issue - only ones that benefit are the politicians and talking heads.

"I did not hear many people screaming when Obama did it."

You bet you didn't.

"If I did something that had me go to jail, I would be separated from my children, even when they were young"

Obviously. Happens every single day.

"These people came in through back door, not front door. Hardly fair to those that waited in line and went through legal means."

I have a friend who was here legally on a student visa, he wanted to stay, but got sent back to Albania when his visa ran out, took him almost 3 years to come back. What on Gods name do you say to him (he had to wait 3 years in a godforsaken sh*thole), when we advocate letting others jump the line? What message does that send?

"This is a great political wedge issue "

That remains to be seen. The left keeps swinging, Trump keeps dodging.

So are you proposing that when adults who choose to break the law are being processed through the criminal justice system, that they be allowed to bring their children along? So we build daycares within our court buildings, with surrogate breastfeeders standing next to bailiffs? Build daycares within maximum security prisons, to avoid separating kids from their parents?

Jim, here is the rate of incarceration per 100K population for the world. It seems other people have different solutions to issues than us.
Country (or dependent territory,
subnational area, etc.) Incarceration
rate
(Prisoners per
100,000
population) Notes

United States of America 655 Notes
El Salvador 610
Turkmenistan 583
Virgin Islands (USA) 542
Maldives 514
Cuba 510
Thailand 497
Northern Mariana Islands (USA) 482
Virgin Islands (United Kingdom) 470
Bahamas 438
Seychelles 437
Grenada 435
Rwanda 434
Russian Federation 411
Guam (USA) 404
St. Kitts and Nevis 393
Panama 390
St. Vincent and the Grenadines 378
Costa Rica 374
Antigua and Barbuda 373
Belarus 364
Cayman Islands (United Kingdom) 359
Belize 356
Sint Maarten (Netherlands) 347
Palau 345
American Samoa (USA) 337
Brazil 328
Uruguay 321
Bermuda (United Kingdom) 319
Puerto Rico (USA) 313
Anguilla (United Kingdom) 307
Barbados 300
Cape Verde (Cabo Verde) 298
Namibia 295
Dominica 289
Turkey 287
Iran 284
Swaziland 282
French Guiana/Guyane (France) 281
South Africa 280
St. Lucia 279
Trinidad and Tobago 270
Peru 267
Mongolia 262
Guyana 259
Taiwan 259
Georgia 254
Dominican Republic 244
Nicaragua 238
Curaçao (Netherlands) 236
Israel 236
Azerbaijan 235
Lithuania 235
Bahrain 234
Morocco 232
Cook Islands (New Zealand) 229
Colombia 227
Chile 225
Greenland (Denmark) 225
Ecuador 222
New Zealand 220
Latvia 218
Martinique (France) 217
Honduras 216
Moldova (Republic of) 215
Czech Republic 209
Botswana 208
Tunisia 206
Samoa 204
Estonia 202
Singapore 201
Paraguay 199
New Caledonia (France) 198
Poland 198
Jordan 197
Macau (China) 197
Saudi Arabia 197
Mauritius 195
Kazakhstan 194
Albania 193
Guadeloupe (France) 192
Gabon 191
Slovakia 190
Argentina 186
Hungary 184
Suriname 183
Cambodia 176
French Polynesia (France) 176
Montenegro 174
Venezuela 173
Philippines 172
Kyrgyzstan 171
Australia 167
Malaysia 167
Tonga 166
Aruba (Netherlands) 165
Gibraltar (United Kingdom) 165
Mexico 165
Fiji 158
Ukraine 158
Kuwait 157
Bolivia 156
Macedonia (former Yugoslav Republic of) 156
Serbia 152
Uzbekistan 150
Algeria 146
Zambia 146
Bhutan 145
Myanmar (formerly Burma) 145
United Kingdom: England & Wales 141 Notes
Nauru 140
Guernsey (United Kingdom) 138
Jamaica 138
United Kingdom: Scotland 137 Notes
Guatemala 136
Brunei Darussalam 134
Jersey (United Kingdom) 133
Malta 133
Armenia 131
Portugal 129
Uganda 129
Ethiopia 127
Micronesia, Federated States of 127
Spain 127
Iraq 126
Lebanon 126
Bulgaria 125
Vietnam 122
Cameroon 121
Tajikistan 121
Zimbabwe 120
Laos 119
Mayotte (France) 119
China 118 Notes
Egypt 116
Romania 116
Luxembourg 115
Reunion (France) 115
Canada 114
Kiribati 113
Hong Kong (China) 111
Kenya 111
Tuvalu 110
Republic of (South) Korea 109
Isle of Man (United Kingdom) 108
Kosovo/Kosova 106
United Arab Emirates 104
France 102
Libya 99
Austria 98
Haiti 96
Italy 96
Indonesia 94
Sri Lanka 94
Angola 93
Greece 93
Lesotho 92
Belgium 91
Afghanistan 88
Madagascar 88
Monaco 85
Sao Tome e Principe 85
Burundi 84
Cyprus (Republic of) 83
Ireland, Republic of 82
Switzerland 82
Malawi 79
United Kingdom: Northern Ireland 79 Notes
Croatia 78
Germany 78
Senegal 76
Norway 74
Bosnia and Herzegovina: Federation 73
Solomon Islands 73
Vanuatu 71
Andorra 69
Benin 68
Bosnia and Herzegovina: Republika Srpska 66
Cote d'Ivoire 66
Djibouti 66
Marshall Islands 66
Mozambique 65
Nepal 65
Sierra Leone 64
Slovenia 64
Equatorial Guinea 63
Papua New Guinea 63
Togo 62
Syria 60
Chad 59
Denmark 59
Netherlands 59
Gambia 58
Tanzania 58
Finland 57
Sweden 57
Niger 53
Qatar 53
Yemen 53
South Sudan 52
Timor-Leste (formerly East Timor) 51
Ghana 50
Bangladesh 47
Mauritania 46
Sudan 46
Japan 45
Liberia 44
Pakistan 43
Burkina Faso 41
Iceland 38
Nigeria 36
Oman 36
India 33
Mali 33
Democratic Republic of Congo 29
Congo (Republic of) 27
Liechtenstein 27
Guinea (Republic of) 25
Comoros 23
Central African Republic 16
Faeroe Islands (Denmark) 12
Guinea Bissau 10

I think we need far fewer prisons and why is it always the worst offenders that you cite to advance your ideas?
In this case we are talking about people who have committed a misdemeanor, not a felony. The justification is always the worst possible outcome, which you use to justify the most draconian solution.

Those places certainly have more to offer than the US, I wonder why Mexicans aren't going there.
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Should these people be rewarded with citizenship as the punishment for something trifling as a misdemeanor? Should they get what they committed the misdemeanor for? Should a kid who steals a candy bar be punished or made to learn a lesson by letting him keep the candy and even giving him some more?

And, as Sea Dangles said, the big list of countries with lower incarceration rates than the US do not have the problem of millions trying to get into their country, legally or illegally.

I have a hard time understanding your logic.

yes, and those solutions include not having an open border with Mexico, having populations that are 99% white, and in the case of some of the countries you mentioned like Iran, they execute drug dealers, which I'd imagine, cuts down on crime. If you want to have THAT conversation, let's have it. But I don't think you do.

Mexicans come here because we are right next door and fewer and fewer each year as the Mexican economy gets better. They don't come here to collect welfare or commit crimes, they come to work and earn money for their families.

We spend 50-60K per prisoner each year, or around $400 for every person in the USA.
We also have the highest rate of recidivism in the world.
So obviously our money is well spent if the object is to insure the future of our prison system.
Follow the money, look at privatization of the prison system.

I never said they become citizens.

Are you saying that no other country has people trying to flee their home country?
Guess you missed the Middle East and Europe.

We do not have an open border. We did, except for Asians, until a little over a hundred years ago.
Very few countries have a 99% white population, ALL countries have a lower rate of incarceration than the USA.
What do you think people learn in prison? Do they learn useful skills that help them succeed in society? Do they learn how to be more successful at life from other criminals?
Why do you think white people do not commit crimes? Is our crime rate because we do not have a lily white society?
Don't forget Trump was very impressed by Duterte's war on drugs, that killed thousands of people, would you go along with that if he attempted that here?

You like to ask a lot of questions. Why don't you give some answers.

I didn't know that the US has a problem of people trying to flee the country.

Here is an answer for you, and no they are not all coming here.
https://www.worldvision.org/refugees...s-in-the-world

How is that an answer to these questions you asked:

"We do not have an open border. We did, except for Asians, until a little over a hundred years ago.
Very few countries have a 99% white population, ALL countries have a lower rate of incarceration than the USA.
What do you think people learn in prison? Do they learn useful skills that help them succeed in society? Do they learn how to be more successful at life from other criminals?
Why do you think white people do not commit crimes? Is our crime rate because we do not have a lily white society?
Don't forget Trump was very impressed by Duterte's war on drugs, that killed thousands of people, would you go along with that if he attempted that here?"

Obama didn't do it, neither did Bush.

Those were questions for Jim, why would I answer for him?
He seems to be quite capable, though I might disagree with his opinions.
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Clearly many feel the journey is worth the risk. If the status quo is unsustainable you have to change.

Just curious if he really practices what he's preached. I'd note even Jeff Session's own church rejected his biblical justification.

Neither Bush nor Obama had the same policy Jim. Both treated minors traveling with a parent differently. Trump has changed two important things very recently:

1) By mandating that every case be prosecuted as criminal means the kids can't stay with their parent(s).

2) The process change on unaccompanied minors is making them harder to place. Most of these kids have family in the US and often that family is undocumented. This decision is now under the jurisdiction of ICE so if family is contacted they aren't responding for fear of deportation.

The Administration is just flatly lying to your face when they say this is a democrat law they're forced to follow. We need comprehensive immigration reform for sure but this is an evil political stunt for Trump to try and get his wall at the expense of kids.

"We do not have an open border"

we have, what, ten million undocumented people living here? A few years ago, a kid running for Congress, went to Mexico, and he crossed illegally back into the US, riding on an elephant, with a mariachi band walking with him, and he made it across (so the story goes). Effectively, it's open.

"What do you think people learn in prison? "

Nothing good. But they can't hurt civilians while in there, and that's at least a big part of why they are there.

"Do they learn useful skills that help them succeed in society?"

Probably not. If you want to spend some of my money to improve the programs to teach them marketable skills, I'm fine with that, if the programs work. I don't like spending money just to say you spent it.

"Why do you think white people do not commit crimes?"

For the same reason that Asian immigrants don't commit a lot of crimes. It has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with the culture that people embrace. Whites and Asians tend to embrace traditional family values and the value of education. Blacks and Hispanics (with encouragement from liberalism, in my opinion) tend to embrace a culture that encourages different, less productive, decision-making.

"Don't forget Trump was very impressed by Duterte's war on drugs, that killed thousands of people, would you go along with that if he attempted that here"

No, I'm opposed to the death penalty, but I'm in favor of brutal prison sentences for drug dealers.

are Spence, Pete and Wayne off their meds or something?

The majority of undocumented people in the US came legally and overstayed their visa. Illegal border crossings are at a 46 year low.

And there you have it. Hooboy.