And this is the singular issue that got him elected. The liberals still haven't learned, they aren't capable of learning, that they are on the losing side of this issue in much of the country. All they see is future reliable votes and a chance to turn TX blue.

I want better conditions for these people. I also want a wall, for the same exact reason why we all lock our doors at night. Easy to be in favor of open borders in New England, but our fellow citizens who live along the border, are entitled to a sense of security as well.

Trump may come out of this, as usual, looking like the winner, he can claim that he inherited this policy (or at least the foundations of it) in laws passed by previous administrations, and he, unlike Obama, cared enough to stop it. Maybe that was his plan all along, he's capable of that.

That's not Reeeeaaaalllyyyyyyyyyy what it means. you're just taking it out of context.

read it again

That's not what it says

RACIST!!!

(just thought I'd get ahead of the game and save a page or so worth of posts)

funny that the CNN conclusion after all that is....." being here illegally may not necessarily be a crime".....that's like saying robbing a bank is a crime but spending the money you stole from the bank may not necessarily be a crime....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factch...JJE?li=BBnb7Kz


Did the Obama Administration Separate Families?

In defending its “zero tolerance” border policy that has caused the separation of families, the Trump administration has argued that the Obama and Bush administrations did this too. That’s misleading. Experts say there were some separations under previous administrations, but no blanket policy to prosecute parents and, therefore, separate them from their children.

“Bush and Obama did not have policies that resulted in the mass separation of parents and children like we’re seeing under the current administration,” Sarah Pierce, a policy analyst with the Migration Policy Institute, told us.

Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen said at a June 18 press briefing: “The Obama administration, the Bush administration all separated families. … They did — their rate was less than ours, but they absolutely did do this. This is not new.”

Nielsen went on to explain that there is indeed something new, as we wrote in another article on this topic. Under a “zero tolerance policy” on illegal immigration announced by Attorney General Jeff Sessions in early April, the administration is now referring all illegal border crossings for criminal prosecution. By doing that, parents have been separated from their children, because children can’t be held in detention facilities for adults.

DHS told us that 2,342 children were separated from their parents between May 5 and June 9.

But DHS couldn’t provide any statistics on how many children may have been separated from their parents under the Obama administration.

Instead, when we asked, it pointed to numbers that show 21 percent of apprehended adults were referred for prosecution under President Barack Obama. From fiscal year 2010 to fiscal 2016, there were 2,362,966 adults apprehended illegally crossing the Southern border, and 492,970 were referred for prosecution, those figures show. But that doesn’t tell us anything about how many children may have been separated from their parents under Obama.

And we don’t have such statistics to compare the past to the present.

“We have not seen any data out of the current or prior administration on how many cases that were prosecuted were individuals who arrived with minors,” Theresa Cardinal Brown, director of immigration and cross-border policy at the Bipartisan Policy Center, told us in an email. “So we cannot make any guesses or assumptions about how many separations based on prosecution there were or are.”

Brown said that even though DHS says 2,342 children have been separated from their parents in about one month, we don’t know what percentage of those cases are due to prosecutions for illegal crossings, and how many are due to other policies that would require separations — such as suspicion of trafficking, another outstanding warrant or insufficient proof of a family relationship.

We asked DHS if it would provide such a breakdown, but we haven’t received a response.

MPI’s Pierce said that the likely reason data aren’t available on child separations under previous administrations is because it was done in “really limited circumstances” such as suspicion of trafficking or other fraud.

“Previous administrations used family detention facilities, allowing the whole family to stay together while awaiting their deportation case in immigration court, or alternatives to detention, which required families to be tracked but released from custody to await their court date,” Brown and her co-author, Tim O’Shea, wrote in an explainer piece for the Bipartisan Policy Center’s website. “Some children may have been separated from the adults they entered with, in cases where the family relationship could not be established, child trafficking was suspected, or there were not sufficient family detention facilities available. … However, the zero-tolerance policy is the first time that a policy resulting in separation is being applied across the board.”

Jeh Johnson, DHS secretary under the Obama administration, told NPR earlier this month that he couldn’t say that family separations “never happened” during his tenure. “There may have been some exigent situation, some emergency. There may have been some doubt about whether the adult accompanying the child was in fact the parent of the child. I can’t say it never happened but not as a matter of policy or practice. It’s not something that I could ask our Border Patrol or our immigration enforcement personnel to do,” Johnson said.

The Obama administration faced a surge of unaccompanied children from Central America trying to cross the border in 2014. Cecilia Muñoz, director of the Obama administration’s Domestic Policy Council, told the New York Times this month that a multi-agency team was considering “every possible idea” at the time, including separating families. “I do remember looking at each other like, ‘We’re not going to do this, are we?’ We spent five minutes thinking it through and concluded that it was a bad idea,” the Times quoted Muñoz saying. “The morality of it was clear — that’s not who we are.”

Brown told us that while the Obama administration “did separate some families,” it also tried to detain families together. In 2016, a court ruling limited how long children with their parents could be in family detention centers. That ruling confirmed that a 1997 settlement applied to both unaccompanied and accompanied minors, as we’ve explained before.

“At that point,” Brown said, “family detention dwindled and most families were released into the US, either on their own with a notice to appear or under Alternatives to Detention, which could be an ankle bracelet or a supervised monitoring provision where they had to check in with ICE regularly until their immigration court hearing.”

On June 20, President Donald Trump signed an executive order directing Nielsen to keep families in custody together “during the pendency of any criminal improper entry or immigration proceedings involving their members” at least “to the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations.”

yawn....

it's pretty interesting reading...

title- "Are undocumented immigrants committing a crime? Not necessarily"

conclusion- "So although there are more than 11 million unauthorized immigrants living in the US, they haven't all committed a crime just by being in the country."

if you came on a work visa...you were "documented"....if you snuck across the border...you were not "documented"....if you overstay your visa you are up for deportation...if you snuck across the border I guess you just get to stay

That’s what the law says...sorry. You guys should read it.
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If I couldn't stand to read 2 sides to an arguement, I wouldn't come here.

We prob. should go back to the really important stuff that used to be discussed here - if brown suits where inappropriate for the WH or putting someone's shoes on a desk was wrong.

How about why some people can’t fact check anything they post?
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Why does Trump keep claiming that Democrats in whole or part want open borders?
Not that a blatant lie should upset anyone.
Is he confusing them with Libertarians?
https://www.lp.org/issues/immigration/
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BC lying is at the core of his soul. that is who he is.

I know, look at all these Right leaning kooks that keep starting threads.

Spence is right, we should spend more time fact checking.

hello.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post

It's not a crime to be in the US as an undocumented immigrant.

:rotf3: Look at the rest of the front page. Or the 2nd page. JohnR isn't right leaning?

I didn't use the word kooks - you did. I did say "vast majority". Is that what bothered you enough to reply?

"vast right wing conspiracy majority"

Not what I meant - Other points of view are important and I want to read them. But as a general rule I find that Jim, myself, and others with more conservative views tend to be more understanding of the liberal side views than vice versa. I just can't recall anyone here who is left leaning ever commend an action by the current administration. My father always told me there will always be people "Who would complain if they were hung with a brand new rope", it kind of reminds me of the anti-Trump movement. I just find that many of you will not give the current president or administration a fair shake.

Page 2

30 posts total

15 started by the #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s
9 Started by the Wingnuts
4 Started by the Radical Centrists
2 Started by the Dangles Party (equal opportunity Ball Buster)

you do live in a fantasy world .... and act as if this immigration thing started yesterday

joining forces with the majority of people in your country in order to stop being oppressed by your government or your criminals..... Expecting the rest of the world to fix your problems refusing to join together with those millions to make a better life in your home country

Funny you use the same verbiage to describe the US Government

Remember Conservatives (Dem and Rep) want you to think things through and maybe see the light, and if not Ohhh Well. Hard Left requires your complete submission physically and mentally.




I have generally been a middle road more conservative Dem but those don't exist anymore so I am now the Radical Independent ; )


I even ever-so-briefly dipped a toe into maybe going progressive as some of my friends had until I saw the landscape and said eff that, all y'all are effing nuts ; )


:rotf2:

DANGLES for PRESIDENT!

"I just find that many of you will not give the current president or administration a fair shake." guess you dont recall the past 8 years and what actions warrant being commended his Behavior he's treatment of others his Name calling... its hard to find a praise worthy thing... Honestly PS when the last time you saw him with his young son

Still Better than Hillary :happy: :happy: :happy: :happy:

Hey Dangles - where ya keep ya Email Server?

That doesn't mean they want open borders. I'm just telling you what current law is.

I pay pretty close attention and can't think of anything significant worth commending. Combine that with the pathological dishonesty, childish tantrums, rampant corruption etc... etc... and I'm not inclined to give Trump the benefit of doubt.

Funny, you claim that facts matter. The only facts in this post by you are those by me that you quoted.

The rest of your post is the fantasy world you live in.

Right. The left wants to let certain people come in through the back door, and proud of it.

I am more down the middle than most of you wingnuts I can tell you that. Nobody recalls me beating up Obama on a regular basis, I took my medicine unlike the baby tantrums we see a constant flow of on this board.
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Well isn't that precious.

Isn't it the responsibility of the people who legally reside in a country to make that country what it is? We don't seem to approve of our country meddling in the affairs of other countries. We don't believe in nation building. How is it that the U.S. becomes the go to place for people who don't like life in their country? Aren't we meddling in the affairs of other countries if we keep their citizens who do not formally and legally immigrate here instead of sending them back?

If a country is a #^&#^&#^&#^&hole, is it the responsibility of the U.S. to clean that up for some people, or is it the responsibility of those who populate the country to clean it up themselves? We had our revolution, as have other countries such as those in Eastern Europe who threw off the Soviet shackles. As did various countries in Africa and Asia. As did nations and people throughout history. And as did some of those various countries in Middle and South America who liberated themselves from European domination and are now dominated by corruption of their own making and from which now come our millions of illegal immigrants.

And where is the great and powerful United Nations? Isn't it supposed to make the world community a safe place for everyone? It likes to condemn Israel on a regular basis. Or send troops every now and then into various places like Africa or Bosnia to stop various genocides or horrible treatment of women and children.

Or are some of us comfortable in using women and children "immigrants" as political pawns? Of course we are. And the approving running-dog media lackeys will hype it to help their political cronies who don't want to stop the flow of illegals while, in the meantime, the so-called third world is awash in oppressed people, rapes, murders, poverty, genocides (e.g. South Africa and Christians in the Middle East) that are too redundant or politically inexpedient to report on. But rather to give us the expedient lies like there aren't any Muslim no go zones in various European countries, or not report on immigrant riots and rapes and murders by Muslims in various European cities and keep it rather quiet when the word finally gets out. Or won't give much covering of the shift to the right in Europe due precisely to the Progressive immigration policies and what they are doing to the indigenous culture. Giving all of that its due reportage might weaken the Progressive immigration ideology here in the U.S.

But, to a lot of us here, that is all becoming apparent. That phoniness in order to protect and promote the Progressive geo-political ideology is being exposed by its own overconfident, more in-your-face contradictory and often ridiculous rhetoric, policies, and outright attacks on speech, religion, and constitutional rights.

Hence, Donald Trump.

You work in Finance, and you se nothing worth commending.

Lowest black unemployment ever?
Neil Gorsich
Lowest unemployment in, what, 17 years?
stock market doing well

None of those are worth commending? I guess none are really reasons to cheer, or if they are, it's all Obama's doing?

What fox news thinks of separating children

On Friday, "Fox & Friends" co-host Brian Kilmeade took heat for saying that migrant children "aren't our kids."

"Like it or not, these are not our kids," he said. "Show them compassion, but it's not like he's doing this to the people of Idaho or Texas. These are people from another country."

Kilmeade argued that Americans were treating migrant children as if they are more important than "people in our country who pay taxes and have needs as well."
Fox News contributor Rachel Campos-Duffy on Friday defended the detention centers by saying "some African-Americans" told her the conditions are better than where they were raised.

"The detention centers are far safer than the journey that these children just came on," she said. "I spoke to some African-Americans who say, 'Gosh, the conditions of the detention centers are better than some of the projects that I grew up in.' "

Laura Ingraham's Fox News program she said the child migrant detention centers were "essentially summer camp."

Good old republican family values on display MAGA

I gave Obama credit all the time for fixing the economy and bombing terrorists. They are all crappy fathers, none of them have any time to spend with their kids.
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And what did you have to say when Obama was doing it? Zip. How come?
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I don't know what your version of family values is. I don't know if you even have a version--if you think such values are nonsense.

I don't know if Republicans have a new version, if they have discarded or modified their old ones in order to please the current post modern sexual and gender "values" so that they can get some of their votes.

But, as far as I can remember, the Good old American family values required adherence to the law. They didn't include encouraging other families to act illegally. They demanded loyalty to the Republic, not a welcome mat for cultural and political invasion--not a means to demographically change the nature of the society in which they invested their lives, their honor, and their fortunes.

Jim, you keep saying this. Obama didn’t use immigration as a racist wedge issue. I’ve never in my life seen a US president dehumanize another people with blatant lies for political gain like this. It’s not just that the policy is different, the entire agenda is different.

America isn’t perfect but we’re slipping into that space where our actions are betraying who we are. We’ve been here before...it’s time to wake up.
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Yeah, Peter Fonda, Kathy Griffin, Antifa, Black lives matter, Bill Maher (We need a recession), Corrupt FBI, highly biased mainstream media, constant accusations of conservatives being racist, racist, racist, homophobes, anti-women, deplorable, and a bunch of similar stuff . . , yeah, your actions are betraying who you are.

And yeah, we've been there before . . . Jane Fonda, the Weathermen, campus radicals, Black Panthers, Symbionese Liberation Army, Che Guevara as left's hero, American left's support of Communism almost from its start and heavily so during FDR Administration as well as support from America's leading academics and mainstream media such as the NYT.

Yeah we've been there before and it's time to wake up.

It's not what you say,its how you say it,
It's not what you do,it's how you do it.
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Perhaps they should microchip Immigrants or just tattoo numbers on their forearms.
That would solve the immigration problem.
Satire in case you wondered, though I fear some might have that view
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If they are illegal, deporting them would be sufficient.

And they haven't been getting deported before Trump?


It’s not just that the policy is different, the entire agenda is different.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

exactly my point as well

some comments from His Base

The US Military can have the Southern Border totally sealed off in a month.
Nothing in or out along the Southern Border. Unless its Invaders from South of the Border being dropped into Old Mexico.

And Trump should order the Military to seal it off.
We are in a defacto war with Mexico right now.


They are invading. They are using their Military to assist with the invasion.

Stop all immigration from subhuman, Third World, shytholes. It's time we stop pretending that non-Europeans and non-East Asians have the ability to live in civilized societies.

and they will let Trump do as he pleases