A caravan of thousands of people intending to illegally cross a border can absolutely be considered an invasion. Invasions are not just done by armies. You can invade someone's privacy. You can invade my space. And it can be an invasion even if it is done by those fleeing hardships. The two things can clearly be "equally both."

And if your claiming that they are escaping hardships, that is not enough to justify asylum.

And in the two videos that I posted of reporters who actually mingled with the caravanners, they found that it was not mostly women and children, but estimated to be about 5% women and children and about 95% men. And that photo-ops were selected by having mostly women and children pose, giving the appearance that that's what constituted the caravan. But, of course, those reporters were just lying. Of course.

FYI

current us troops in Afghanistan

US: 14,000

on the border


The deployment, known as Operation Faithful Patriot, will swell the number of military personnel on the border to 7,300 — adding to the 2,100 National Guardsmen who joined thousands of Border agents in April.



Once stationed, the 7,200 troops at the border will equal the number in Iraq and Syria combined.



400 migrants of the Central American migrant caravan arrived in Tijuana Nov. 13, 2018.

and guess how many showed up to confront this invasion

12 border agents several ATVs a few trucks and 1 helicopter :btu:

Arrived on Nov. 13? Weren't we told that it was several weeks before they'd get here? Fake news?

Glad to see we're as serious about protecting our borders at least as we are about protecting other countries.

The number that’s arriving was also supposed to be thousands strong wasn’t it? Fake news?
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This is a different caravan. Probably more asylum seekers.🤷🏽#^&♂️
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Were told that there's thousands more still on the way. But they're not all in one batch. It would be good if this first batch found it difficult to get what they want. That might discourage more.

But if this is going to be a continuous problem, would it not be better if we do the stitch in time thing and seriously stop it now rather than always play politics and keep it going?

Look, I’m no bigger a fan of illegal immigration than the next person, but asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants, they’re using a legal process to seek asylum in this country.

Until we say we’re not going to allow that process to continue as written, then I don’t see a problem with a caravan of people marching across Montreal never mind all of Central America to follow that process and escape whatever they’re trying to escape.

The fact that people can abuse the asylum process is a legal issue, not an illegal one.
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huh???

First, the legal process does not give the seekers the option to choose which country they wish to go. The legal process requires asylum seekers to apply for it in the first country whose border they cross. That would be Mexico. It would be up to Mexico if they qualify for asylum.

Second, seeking better economic conditions is not a legal requisite for asylum.

Most of the immigrants that have been interviewed while traveling in the caravan say they’re doing it to make a better life. But they have been coached on what to say when they get to the border. So they will not say what they’ve candidly admitted to interviewers while traveling. If they are properly and effectively vetted, and they should have documents proving who they are and from whence they came, it can be decided at that point if they qualify. In most instances, they probably won’t have proper documentation with them.

And they must present themselves at a proper port of entry. The notion that they can come in mass numbers and bull rush the border, and claim asylum if and when they're caught, is not part of the legal process.

In any case, they are already outside of the legal framework. So they are not following the legal process as written. We are not legally required to accept them. We can do so, but if we do accept a significant number of them, we just encourage the continuation of large numbers of them coming here for a better life at our expense, and illegally

dont confuse talking points with the law

Again Wayne, you are uninformed.
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https://www.thenational.ae/world/eur...court-1.614521

https://cis.org/Cadman/Why-Shouldnt-...-Asylum-Mexico

Now since it fits your argument, EU court decisions apply here
Wishful thinking perhaps
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EU Court decisions have to fit the UN convention, ergo they can fit all the other parties to the convention.

Are you claiming that for all cases?
Warning could be a trick question
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If you know the answer to your question, why ask it? Just inform me. I'm not Professor Irwin Corey.

The 5,800 troops who were rushed to the southwest border amid President Donald Trump’s pre-election warnings about a refugee caravan will start coming home as early as this week — just as some of those migrants are beginning to arrive.


What a surprise .... Trump supporters duped again .... and again they won't say a word

a word

I remember a time not that long ago when conservatives would go berserk if anyone disrespected the troops let along openly denegrate them. What happened to those people?
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all of those horrible things you've been saying about conservatives all these years must be true I guess:rotflmao:

So if you disrespect some, you disrespect all. I think there was a time not that long ago, on this forum, that you and Paul S went a little batty if "conservatives" employed that paradigm.

Not sure I remember that but go for it.
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It's in the archives. :btu:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sa...cid=spartanntp

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/me...cid=spartanntp

Better panic
The numbers are dropping
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/22/62224...n-three-graphs
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From your article:
"The increase in the number of people seeking asylum is part of a larger shift in the reasons people give for entering the U.S. at the southern border."

And:

"today, the strongest pull for people crossing the border without authorization is the desire to be with family in the U.S."

The numbers of "asylum" seekers has indeed risen. And the "larger shift" in reasons for it, as quoted above, is not a valid reason to grant them asylum.

In your opinion
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We can still tear gas the kids though right?
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Put yourself as a parent in this situation. If I see or hear of tear gas being used I pull back to protect my children and wait my turn to enter the U.S. legally. No one wants to see kids being tear gassed but Parents/guardians carry the first line of responsibility in this situation.

300,000 +/- people are caught and deported at the southern border.
Nobody has good figures on how many are not caught.
A wall might cost between 10 and 30 billion dollars, nobody knows for sure other than that Mexico isn't paying for it and the billions don't include maintenance.
Now a 40' ladder is less than $500 and you have almost 2000 miles of border.
Build a wall, I'll buy stock in Werner.
We need a new comprehensive immigration plan and to help the nations that people are fleeing so they don't have to, along with improved border security.
Subsistence farmers facing bad guys and multiple seasons of drought with no crops are leaving because they see no other alternative, it's will likely die or might possibly die for choices in their minds. What choice would you make?

Actually I believe a lot of the asylum seekers are small business owners, they’re not poor relatively speaking hence why they’re such a target of crime.
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This person would tell you this if you are thinking of coming to this country now.

I am a refugee living in the United States and I know what it means to escape death. Still, I warn others not to come – they won’t be safe or welcome here
Don’t come here. If you are afraid for your life and you have no place to go, don’t pick this country. It is not safe for you here any more.

If you try to cross our borders, people in military uniform called border patrol agents, will arrest you, throw you in a freezing cage and subject you to all kinds of abuses. These agents who don’t speak your language will sit you down and interrogate you. It won’t matter if you didn’t understand their questions, they will write whatever they want in dozens of forms, make you sign them, and use them against you later as they try to deport you.

You will tell them that you don’t understand the forms, but they won’t care. They will tell you that if you don’t sign them, they won’t let you go free. So you will sign them. But even after signing the forms, they will keep you caged.

Rotting food, abuses from your jailers, and how much you miss your family may make you beg to be deported. You know that your deportation will mean returning to violence and possible death, but when you realize that this country doesn’t think of you as a person, you may pick dignity and death over being caged and treated like an animal.

You might be lucky and be among the very few who are released from immigration jail and allowed to live in our country while your asylum application is pending. This won’t mean that your immigration case will be over though. Your immigration case will not be solved for years, and even though you have a case for staying in this country, the government will make you wait for years before you get a final answer.

While you wait for your case to be heard, you won’t be given any help. You will be on your own finding a job, learning English, and adjusting to this country. But you knew that before deciding to come. You are fighter, so that won’t be a problem for you. You will work long hours, find a place to lay your head, learn English, and survive. After a couple of years of hard work and sacrifices, you will feel that there is some hope for your future. Maybe, you will start believing that the American dream is attainable.

Then, something unexpected will happen. You will get sick or you will get very depressed. Maybe you will be sad because you miss your family. Because of how sick or sad you were, you will sleep in one day, miss a shift at work, and you will be fired. You will run out of money and while looking for jobs, one day you will jump the turnstile to get on a train for a job interview. To you, it was worth the risk, but you miscalculated.

You will get arrested and charged with a crime for the first time in your life. You will swear never to make a mistake again but it will be too late. This arrest will lead you back to an immigration jail similar to the one you were released from years ago. You will wait in an immigration detention center for months before you see a judge.

The day of your immigration hearing you will be wearing an orange jumpsuit and will be shackled. You will go in front of an immigration judge who will reprimand you for the mistake you committed and tell you don’t have the right to a bail hearing. You will remain in jail indefinitely while your deportation proceedings are pending.

Because you are poor, you probably won’t be able to afford a lawyer and you won’t be given one. You will have to represent yourself in one of the most complicated legal systems in the world and all in a language you likely don’t speak. The judge will tell you to bring evidence to prove the terrible things that happen to you in your home country. But you won’t be able to get it because you are detained and can’t afford phone calls or experts.

The day of your final hearing, months after you were detained, you will face a lawyer from the government who will push for your deportation. The judge, who works with the government attorney five days a week and has a good relationship with them, will listen to them over you and order your deportation.

But let’s say you don’t get deported. If for some reason, and against all the odds, you find an immigration judge that listens to your story and understands your life is at risk if you return to your country, you will be granted permission to stay here. Then, you finally may feel that something good came your way.

That feeling will go away though. You will realize that having the ability to legally work and live in this country does not mean all your problems are solved.

But even if everything works out and you are never arrested, abused, murdered, or deported, you will never feel fully welcome here. No matter how much you work, how many sacrifices you make, the contributions you made to our country and the perfect English you have, you will always feel like an undesirable guest. Everybody in our government will make sure to let you know that you are not wanted here.

I know you have heard so many wonderful things about this place. I am sure that you heard that we were a “nation of immigrants,” correct? Well, that’s a thing of the past. We even changed the mission of the government agency handling asylum applications so it is clear to you. We are now “committed to protecting Americans, securing the homeland, and honoring our values.” What values, you ask? Well, whatever we pick to justify that you are not welcome here.

What is that? You still want to come?

I know. I know you will come because I am a refugee living in the United States and I know what it means to escape death. I am so ashamed that we will do this to you and I am angry because my new country has betrayed me and every other person who believed in it. This place is not what it used to be. Just know that.

Luis Mancheno is an immigration attorney in New York. He was granted asylum in the United States in 2009 after fleeing from his native Ecuador

Is this guy some expert on what this country used to be? Did it used to be the alternative to living in Ecuador? What is he doing to change Ecuador? Does he believe that half of Ecuador, or more, should come here and make this country what it used to be? Will that make Ecuador a better country?

It seems, if we're to believe the narrative, that the majority of Central Americans are oppressed, in danger of death, impoverished, and at the mercy of criminals. And this guy feels they must need to come to the U.S. and help America be what it used to be.

He is not grateful for being here as a successful (I presume) attorney, but feels that he has been betrayed by his new country. And that every other person who believed in it has also been betrayed. It sounds like he would be miserable wherever he lived unless the place was a reflection of what he believed--like he is the center of the universe, and it must listen to him.

are we targeting kids for tear gas? or using tear gas when rocks are thrown at border patrol agents, which has tragic collateral damage? maybe the parents of these kids, should
not place their
kids near people throwing rocks at US law enforcement.

So you see no unusual
concerns with violence in Chicago, but you have concerns with responding when people throw rocks at american law enforcement officials. at least, that response bothers you, when the POTUS is a loathsome republican.

liberal =good, conservative=bad, no exceptions. Shocker.
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when the previous administration used pepper spray at the border, did you express concern? or is it only problematic to you, when the potus is a republican?

how about we have one set of rules for what’s acceptable and what’s not, and we apply those rules consistently, regardless of the party of the potus? What do you say?

When obama does it, it’s worthy of the nobel peace prize.

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/...order-in-2013/
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I would not be shocked, you should adopt one.
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Pete F QUOTE:
You've got a lot of questions for someone who only wants answers.

I gave some possible answers at the latter end of the post.

He has an opinion on how America is now to Hispanic immigrants and a broken belief in what some think America was, I would think you would be happy with his viewpoint of Trump's America

I perfectly understood what his ethnically apologist opinion is. And his viewpoint of Trump's America, if it is actually that, is too limited in its scope and too self-centered to do much but beg for sympathy.

"It seems, if we're to believe the narrative, that the majority of Central Americans are oppressed, in danger of death, impoverished, and at the mercy of criminals. And this guy feels they must need to come to the U.S. and help America be what it used to be. "

Where did he say that in any manner, shape or form?

In the manner, shape and form of his whole essay.

"He is not grateful for being here as a successful (I presume) attorney, but feels that he has been betrayed by his new country. And that every other person who believed in it has also been betrayed. It sounds like he would be miserable wherever he lived unless the place was a reflection of what he believed--like he is the center of the universe, and it must listen to him."
Chévere, we all have bad days, some would say the same about you and change.[QUOTE/]

I have had bad days. I presume you also had them. I'm not aware of the bad days that change has had.

Migrant invaders throw rocks at border agents to prove they are serious about asylum?
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That's obviously fake news. The "migrants" are mostly women and children. Peaceful folk trying to escape violence. Women and children escaping violence would not throw rocks at other people.

And there aren't that many of them. Most have gone back. And they won't be arriving for awhile yet. It takes months to travel all that way on foot. So those probably aren't the migrants. Probably some local hooligans trying to make Trump look bad.