10,0000 deaths per year isn’t petty and ANYONE drinking and driving and taking life should be prosecuted, or deported; wrong is wrong.
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but CA law prohibited cops from telling ICE about his two DUIs. why is that good policy? that’s the only issue here, i’m asking for the third time why it’s a good idea. what will it take for you to answer that question, as i asked it?
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if there is one, it is one too many

this response is beyond deplorable

If this country had any balls, we would deport criminals

Jim, he thinks is just a misdemeanor so thru the revolving door to the streets they go just like a regular American, no big deal.

The actual answer is there is NO justification NONE, he has no answer and neither does Pete

This is why we ended up with Trump
People are fed up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QurcAFMNAWs

2 minutes and 25 seconds well worth listening

America, WAKE UP

In spite of your use of official, harmless sounding phrases like "undocumented," and meaningless ones like "Comprehensive reform" to indicate that you might consider that something is a wee bit wrong with what you consider much too harsh to call "illegal," what you say here, if you were explicit and "comprehensive," is not really different than what I said: "immigration laws are . . . useless and unnecessary. What's all the fuss about reforming immigration laws? Just scrap them. Who needs a wall when their is no reason to keep people out. If they're violent, the local police will take care of it." "If they're not committing violent crimes they have the perfect right to be here." After all, as you say, "local police can determine what works best in their municipalities."

The bread crumb you throw to the federal bureaucracy: "Immigration law is federal jurisdiction" is superfluous, irrelevant, even a contradiction to your saying " If you have an undocumented person working and paying taxes, hell maybe they even have a few kids that are US citizens, deporting them and breaking up the family because they got a speeding ticket isn’t going to benefit the community". What you said is an affirmation that they have a right to be here. That there is actually no reason to stop them from coming here.

And if it is, as you say, "even worse if they can be a witness to a crime they’re afraid to report for fear of deportation," that even more supports the idea that they have the right to be here. After all, they shouldn't, as you suggest, have to be afraid of deportation for doing the same thing that a "documented" or "legal" person would do in reporting the same crime.

So, for you, if immigration is ultimately not a question of law but of procedure, documentation (and even that is not really necessary if the "undocumented" haven't committed a violent crime) then border enforcement and immigration law are a waste of resources. If no law is broken by crossing the border without being documented, and staying here indefinitely, and being here in no way different than "legally" residing citizens with all the inherent rights and privileges, then little needs to be done to "comprehensively" reform immigration law other than scrapping most of it, if not all of it.

On the other hand, if law is broken, then penalty must follow. If we can impeach a President for misdemeanors, who among us, especially law breakers, should get a free pass?

Visa Overstays Outnumber Illegal Border Crossings,

The majority of immigrants settling in the U.S. without authorization are first coming to the country legally,

how is the wall going to fix that?

Just another example of Trump's base buying into the misinformation and fear.. of brown people


Ryan would give visas to Irish workers,:btu:


why do conservatives scream states rights when it suits them? ... But dont support states rights to not to enforces federal immigration (misdemeanors ) and detentions without reimbursement ... even in mass we bring people to federal court on ICE detainers so again the lie sold by the right is again just more misinformation .. you see it in gun control... the right calls it confiscation or any other argument on any topic the rights core element is fear ..

Spence, you said local
police can determine what works best in their
municipalities. but the
local police aren’t allowed to exercise that judgment, because
liberal politicians pass laws to take that ability away from them. they cannot contact ICE even if they wanted to.
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Well said about reporting to ICE. I can't believe I live in a country in which the mayor of a major city - Oakland - can get away with doing just the opposite .... "Hey you illegals, especially those of you who are criminals, look out. ICE is coming". Why isn't she in jail?

Let me tell you, when you have to distort the facts to this degree to avoid making your position look stupid, maybe it's time to re-think your position. You make it sound like this guy was Ward Cleaver who happened to get caught going 56mph in a 55mph zone by a racist cop.

Spence, for the FOURTH TIME NOW, would you oppose a law which said illegals get deported if they have multiple DUIs?

We probably agree that illegals who commit violent felonies get deported. And I presume we agree that illegals (especially the fictional one you described here, who is working to support a family) who gets caught speeding, I'm OK with not automatically deporting these people.

This guy was not even close to what you described, which makes me curious why you went to a hypothetical that bears zero resemblance to what we are discussing here. I mean, I know exactly why you did it, but I wonder why you'd say you did it?

"The majority of immigrants settling in the U.S. without authorization are first coming to the country legally,

how is the wall going to fix that?"

So unless the wall can fix every aspect of immigration, as well as cure cancer, it's not worth building?

People still escape from prison despite the existence of prison guards, so should we do away with prison guards (see what I did there? I used your "logic").

No ne said the wall was perfect, and that it would reduce illegal immigration to zero. What people are saying (thoughtful, sane people that is),is that it will help. I keep seeing that between 1,000 and 3,000 people a day cross the border. Some of them will have the ability to bypass a wall. Some will not. The wall will help. It won't reduce the number of people crossing illegally to zero, but it will reduce it from where it is today.

It's obvious common sense. You really disagree with that?

There is no wall. There won’t be a wall. Read the news
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I never said there would be. I said if there was a wall, it would reduce, but not eliminate, illegal immigration. And I said that just because an idea isn't perfect and doesn't solve every problem in the world and make us all immortal, doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

When courts legalize gay marriage, it didn't solve all problems that gays face. I still think it was the right thing to do.

The liberal arguments here, are laughably absurd. Read them, and think honestly about them for a minute. Because the wall won't reduce illegal immigration to zero, that means its not a good idea? we have laws against murder, but people still get murdered. So should we do away with those laws?

The only problems gays face are dealing with #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s who refuse to accept them.
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My point was, no idea is perfect or flawless or impossible to weasel around. So you can't shoot down the wall, by saying that some people will be able to go over or under it.

You shut your doors at night? If so, why? A master thief can still get in if he really wants to, right? Shutting your door doesn't guarantee that an intruder won't get in. But you do it anyway, and you'd be stupid not to do it.

I don’t live my life in fear. You should consider that path. Happiness and love sets you free.
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Do you shut your door and at night, yes or no?

Love it when you ask the simplest question in the world, and get a dodge for an answer...

The 60's called, they want their domestic policy back. :hee:
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🙃
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We know he was arrested twice for DUI but I don’t know if he was ever convicted. If the DUIs didn’t have aggravating factors I’m not sure that just because he’s illegal makes much of a difference. If he got a third he could have faced harsher charges that didn’t have any protection.

You have to draw a line somewhere. DUI is probably on the upper end.
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I’ve never heard anyone try any make this argument.

Even the govt’s own study last year concluded we didn’t need a wall. It’s a campaign stunt not immigration policy.
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The first point is completely and totally false.

The second point is mind blowing stupid.If they're here without authorization they are not here legally.How they arrived here is irrelevant.

The fear of "brown" people?Talk about broadening the race card.The the vast majority of all US citizens can claim "brown" status.With my ethnic heritage I'm the "brownest" guy on this site!

Much like your "what if" thread you might want to check back in with reality.

No, I’m pretty sure close to 60% of illegal aliens are people who have overstayed VISAs rather than made illegal border crossings.

Same goes for illegal drugs, only a small fraction is smuggled over land, most all comes through ports.
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Upper end of what you'd be OK forgiving? Multiple DUIs?

Trump is the only person in the conversation lacking common sense

that a Wall doesn’t work. It does, and properly built, almost 100%! They say it’s old technology - but so is the wheel.

or “Jeb Bush just talked about my border proposal to build a ‘fence,’” he tweeted. “It’s not a fence, Jeb, it’s a WALL, and there’s a BIG difference!” or President and Mrs. Obama built/has a ten foot Wall around their D.C. mansion/compound. I agree, totally necessary for their safety and security. The U.S. needs the same thing, slightly larger version!

...The Wall will be paid for, directly or indirectly, or through longer term reimbursement, by Mexico, to bad there is no wall around the house

we could go all day now his people are backpedaling again

“To be honest, it’s not a wall,” Kelly said, adding that the mix of technological enhancements and “steel slat” barriers the president now wants along the border resulted from conversations with law enforcement professionals.

Graham “the wall has become a metaphor for border security” and referred to “a physical barrier along the border.”

this is my favorite to bad he might not have said it but i can't be 100 % Sure

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...017/924316002/

Homeland Security: More than 600,000 foreigners overstayed U.S. visas in 2017

here is reality Trump and his administration have focused far more on building a wall along the southern border with Mexico,

why would that be??????

Your article points out, rather quietly, that Trump addressed the overstay problem, and that the numbers have gone down since 2016.

Why do you say that the administration has focused far more on building a wall? It focused on the overstay and Congress has quietly implemented, as your article states, the "biometric entry-exit tracking system that would better monitor foreigners who legally visit the United States. Completion of that system, which uses fingerprints and iris scans to more accurately capture when people enter and exit the country, was included in an executive order he signed shortly after being sworn in as president."

But Congress is not cooperating on the wall, that's why the focus seems to be so large on building the wall.

Fact Check.org has quoted the estimate that about 44% of the "undocumented population" are those who overstayed their visas.

Of Course, government "estimates" are ridiculously low for various reasons (political to hiding incompetence). There are probably way, way, more illegals than the low ball official estimates.

In any case, whether the % is visa overstay or border crossing, either is a large number and both have to be addressed, as has been the visa overstay issue.

How about being illegal is the line?

Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL) says Pelosi & Schumer have "blood on their hands" for refusing to secure the border: “Democrats have an open borders philosophy, they don’t believe in border security, they believe this is the way to change the American electorate in order to win elections.”

And once again as if on cue the conspiracy theory's flow

Despite those gradual improvements, the report acknowledges that there is "no specific cause that can be directly attributed to the decrease in overstay rates" in 2017. Guess you missed that

and executive orders once deemed bad are not a replacement for legislation .. which some how could not be passed by his own party ...

"I’ve never heard anyone try any make this argument."

Everyone is making that argument, saying that people can circumvent the wall by going under or over. Using that logic, we should all leave our doors wide open at night, because some burglars know how to bypass deadbolts.

yOu used a different argument, that "so many" police chiefs support it. But you provided zero evidence to support that made up, self serving statement.

The wall is a campaign stunt? I'd bet my life, in return for 50 cents on your end, that you didn't say that when Schumer and Bernie supported a wall. Was it merely a campaign stunt then?

Spence, do you have ANY principles. other than agree with what liberals are saying at the moment? Is that literally the only thing that guides you?

I don't know that we "need" a wall. But it would help reduce illegal immigration.

His party did pass wall funding in the House. The Senate required the other party's help--which was not given.

And executive orders are bad or wrong only when they order something that does not fall within the purview of Article 2 of the Constitution. That is still the case, regardless of who trespasses that restraint, nor of which party allows it to stand. Unfortunately, party power concerns and judicial corruption and inertia have been letting the abuse stand.

That's one of the reasons that the Constitution is barely hanging on, as they say, by a thread--or a few threads.

Interesting article in the LA Times on a new migration pattern:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mi...cid=spartanntp

Well then you’d just be back to the situation sanctuary laws were employed for in the first place.
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I think 44 percent is the overall population with the ratio being much higher in recent years. Likely a result of illegal border crossings being so historically low the last decade.

Still, it’s roughly half which supports wdmso’s statement.
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Since when were Schumer and Sanders big wall proponents?
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When dealing with millions, 44% vs. 50% is a big difference. And its way different than the 60% you were pretty sure of. But, in any case, either is huge in itself and needs fixing. Comparison, any way, is irrelevant. Fixing one is not at the expense of the other. The border problem needs its own solution. Trying to compare it to another problem in a negative way does not diminish it. It's just a misdirection attempting to disparage the need for a wall.

Are we not at that situation now? Actually being illegal puts a huge crimp in the notion that something is not illegal. Being here illegally is contrary to being here as if you have a right to be here and to being protected from discovery and deportation.

Without explicitly saying so, just about everything you say to justify the protection of and aid to illegal immigrants amounts to the notion, if not the actual fact, that they have a right to be here. It basically supports the idea of open borders. It would be more respectful if you admitted that rather than couching your thoughts in elusive language.

Secure Fence Act of 2006. unless you’re one of those who say a fence and a wall aren’t the same thing.
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