The unheard argument

The Republican Plan To Devastate Public Education in America
Conservatives talk about “school choice.” What they really want, though, will result in the end of public education for the poor, and disfavored minorities like LGBT people.

https://newrepublic.com/article/1673...cation-america
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can you name one place that currently has school
choice, where public education has ended for the poor?

If you think a tiny sliver of competition will
mean the end of public education, you must have a crappy view of public education.

a little competition will incentivize public educaton to improve.

If every private sector company can survive in a competitive landscaoe, eh do you assume public schools cannot?

What a stupid, devoid of logic, argument.

PS you’re not really pro choice then, are you?

Pete is afraid that school choice will ruin public education for poor people.

I can make a compelling argument that lack of school choice has already ruined it. In Baltimore, among 13 public high schools, recently there were zero students meeting accepted grade proficiency in math.

Zero students hitting math proficiency, at 13 high schools.

Pete would force kids to stay in these failing sh-tholes. I say they’d deserve much better, and the problem won’t be fixed by giving raises and more perks to the teachers there.

https://foxbaltimore.com/amp/news/pr...icient-in-math

Jim and his conservatives friends love using inner cities as their examples from gun violence to education to overall crime

It’s all they have ever done . There is example after example across the country what school choices means for Conservatives. Things called data and statistics. But their dismissed as fake news

Claiming it’s to help the underserved is just another lie told with a straight Face in public ..


Right on the Texas Republicans website

Republican Party of Texas legislative priority

The Problem
Parents are not able to give their children the educational opportunities they desire.
Parents don’t have ownership over their tax dollars being used for educational funding.
Some solutions lead to greater problems since they require tax money to be given to the government from some and then distributed to others — an unfair system that creates unwanted government strings.
The Solution
Distribute educational funds in a manner that they follow the student to any school, whether public, private, charter, or home school through means of tax exemptions and/or credits.

Then you get a list of what to say on social media’s

Sample Tweets:

I stand for #schoolchoice. Let my money follow my student.
I’m a parent who’s asking for my tax dollars to follow my child to the school I choose. #schoolchoice
Texas parents have a right to choose the best education for their children. Let my money follow my student. #schoolchoice

Letter to the Editor:

Here’s a sample letter to the editor that you can customize, personalize, and submit to your local newspaper. An ideal time is when this subject comes up in the news. Be sure to check and follow your paper’s guidelines for length and submission.


Yet this same party is banning books attacking trans youth and their families claiming teachers are indoctrination sites for children. There trying to defund a system to benefit their small base who wants tax money to send their kids to religious schools


It’s all here ! Republican candidates are platforming nationwide calls for “parents’ rights” and school choice. They want curriculum posted online and for parents to be able to opt out of certain lessons on sexual orientation and gender identity. Many oppose lessons they feel are too closely tied to critical race theory, an academic framework that looks at the roles of race and racism in U.S. history, law and institutions. They also want taxpayer dollars to flow to private and religious schools.

How about looking at the parents income and how many children they have in the system. And base any refund based on that .. also see if the child ever attended public school to start with.

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017...chool-vouchers


The biggest headline from the program's growth is this: Today, more than half of all voucher students in the state have no record of attending a public school.

Good read

This I found hypocritical In 2011 voucher law prohibited the state from regulating "curriculum content, religious instruction or activities, classroom teaching, teacher and staff hiring requirements, and other activities carried out by the eligible school."

But in public schools they want to pass a bill One of the main features of the bill is that it would prohibit eight different concepts focused on sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, national origin, or political affiliation

But these private schools who take public money can still pick and choose their students.. here’s an example

In its online admissions packet, Lighthouse Christian Academy in Bloomington lays out its expectations of students. It lists "behaviors prohibited in the Bible" to include "homosexual or bisexual activity or any form of sexual immorality" and "practicing alternate gender identity or any other identity or behavior that violates God's ordained distinctions between the two sexes, male and female."

It’s not and never been about helping underserved children

"Yet this same party is banning books"

Not sure what book appropriateness has to do with school choice, but whatever. Are you saying liberals don't use censure, don't ban books they don't like (like To Kill A Mockingbird, Huckleberry Finn), don't take down statues that are offensive to them, etc? As always, it's OK when liberals do it.

"attacking trans youth"

Sorry. Telling biological boys that they can't watch girls undress during school, isn't attacking anybody. It's protecting everybody. It takes a pretty warped mind to call that attacking anybody.

"They want curriculum posted online"

The horror! Imagine that if I'm paying big money for something that my kids are exposed to, that I want to see what it is? The nerve of some people!

Wayne, you never, not once, were curious about what your kids were being taught? You never bothered to ask about any details? Never?

You don't get it. The teachers work for the parents. Not the other way around. Teachers are public servants. They exist to serve the public.

In another post here, you said it's the responsibility of the parents to educate their children. Fine. How can parents educate their kids, without having some knowledge of what the kids are being taught, without having some input.

You seriously said that it's the parents responsibility to educate their kids, but parents should shut up about what happens in school. That doesn't sound stupid to you?

You'll say ANYTHING to serve liberalism.

You also ignored my obvious question...if it's YOUR responsibility to educate your kids (which you said it was), what possible right do you have to ask others to pay for your kids' student loans?

You want my money, but you want me to shut up about how it's spent.

You picked one extreme school. My sons catholic high school has a few gay and trans students, they are welcome to attend the school.

There are many, many private schools with no religious affiliation.

If you're opposed to private schools taking public money, then explain why you're OK with using public money to pay off your student loans. I'll wait.

You cannot win this one...you boxed yourself into a corner from which there's no escape, when you supported the idea of student loan forgiveness, and when you said it's the parent's responsibility to educate our children.

So you're entitled to public money to educate your kids at the college you choose to send them to, but poor people in urban areas are not.

I'd just love to hear you justify that.

Maybe that is something that can be discussed

It's not really a refund, it's more of a redirecting of funds for education

What does that have to do with anything, if a parent decides what he wants his child's education needs to be from kindergarten on up, they are allowed

Trump defends meeting with known white supremacist, says he ‘knew nothing’ about him

Hard to claim they systems broken if you never used the system so claiming is broken . Then asking for public money to support religious schooling which is actually the push by the right for school choice

Please. Anyone can look at the data and the results.

Many poor people stuck in these school systems are the ones begging for school choice. You make it sound like its all rich white people in the suburbs whose kids are already in private schools.

Maybe I just like another school better, doesn't have to be based on me thinking the system is broken, and if someone wants to send their kid to a catholic school, so be it.

Religious schools No government money.. it’s easy. republicans trying to ignore the separation of church and state . Hell they don’t even want people to vote. Or have their votes counted

Officials in a rural, Republican-controlled county in Arizona have voted to delay certifying the results of this month's midterm elections and miss the state's legal deadline of Monday, despite finding no legitimate problems with the local counts.

The examples of conservatives revisionist history . Are crazy it’s hard to take them seriously
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Jim I linked an article again you just don’t like the answers
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and i posted an article with facts not just partisan nonsense

You said it’s hard to criticize something unless you’ve been in it. but that doesn’t stop you from criticizing everything every republican has ever said or done, even if you’ve never been inside

You say educating kids is a parents responsibility, yet you won’t explain why you’re on with taking other peoples hard earned money to pay off your kids student loans, which obviously you chose to take on and are obviously your responsibility.

you demy me the right to use my own tax dollars to educate my kids. and at the same time, you have the right to my tax dollars to educate your kids. So everything is ok, as long as the money is flowing into your wallet. Make that wrong. That’s your only principle here.

Everything is ok when you do it. everything. But no one else can do those same things. amd you can’t offer a single syllable to explain.

So I take it then that there should be no federal grant money or student loan forgiveness for students who attended BYU, Wake Forest, Boston College, Notre Dame or any other private religious schools?
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Wayne, if you don't like those things, you don't have to send your kids to a school that advocates for those things. But where would you get the right, to deny parents the right o use their tax dollars to send kids to a different school, if the parent feels that private school is a different fit?

If public schools could get their act together, there wouldn't be large numbers of families who want to flee the public schools.

So you say hat parents have no right to see what's taught in public school, no right to comment on what's taught, have no right to use their tax dollars to pay for a school that's a better fit for their child, but again, YOU have the right to everyone elses money to help pay for the cost of educating your kids. You have that right.

So you say hat parents have no right to see what's taught in public school, no right to comment on what's taught, have no right to use their tax dollars

No Jim that you and Republicans are just lying thru your teeth

Yet you and conservatives crazy’s think parents are suddenly smarter the the people teaching them. That’s funny

And what kids get taught is a secret. ? And school board and parent teacher conferences don’t exist? or never existed to address questions?

That takes a special kind of arrogance…. And dishonesty which the GOP has in abundance to spread such BS . But their base eats it up..
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you complained in a previous post here on this thread, that republican parents want to see what their children are taught, and you said so as an obvious criticism. Now you’re denying what you said.

why should anyone assume that teachers are all smarter than anyone else? being educated and being smart are two very different things

see, once again you’re all over the place. on the one hand you say it’s the parents’ responsibility to educate their kids. on the other hand, you say we have no right to question anything that teachers do. So which is it? How can you not see that those two statements are contradicting each other? How can you be that clueless?

Questioning teachers isn’t questioning their intelligence. It’s based on the fact that i know my kids better than any teacher ( who has them for 45 minutes a day with 15 other kids in the class) will ever know them. Teachers know how to teach better than the average person walking around, but any good parent knows their own kids a thousand times better than any teacher ever will.


“dishonesty”… the parents complaining about porn are literally reading from books that are in the schools. but you won’t admit they’re even being honest.

You’re as dishonest as any politician wayne. The liberal can never be wrong, the conservative can never be right. Obviously the truth isn’t nearly that simple, but you have convinced yourself that it is. That’s unbelievably dishonest.

Meanwhile in other parts of the right wing media fog, imagine the quality candidates they'll find if Mike Lindell runs RNC
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihUWwFuJOvU
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Jim just be honest if you can ?
you post twisted alternative facts after alternative facts. And try to sell them here as a national crisis. You repeat everything you hear on right wing media.. aka lies and regurgitating them

From parents being targeted as domestic terrorist to Paul pelosi
To porn in school , teachers indoctrinating children or groomers to the POTUS controls gas prices

The list is never ending

But here is what is missing and no surprise because we know you’re deep in right wing web


Pompeo calling teachers union president Is “the Most Dangerous Person in the World”—Ahead of Kim Jong Un

You Teachers unions are evil. (Classic). But the Doj targeted parents lol

Then 3 pages of school choice grievances while you’re kids don’t go to public school ?

The pillow guy running for RNC chair

You : silence.

Trump dinning with Nicholas Fuentes

You : silence

Counties in Arizona, Pennsylvania fail to certify election results by legal deadlines

You silence.
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Trump Demands Kari Lake Be 'Installed' as Ariz. Governor

Former President Donald Trump, citing a "criminal voting operation," demanded that fellow Republican Kari Lake be "installed" as Arizona's governor after irregularities on election day threw the race into question.

And people will still vote for this bum?
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"you post twisted alternative facts after alternative facts"

I posted that 13 public high schools in Baltimore, among all of them, had zero students doing math at grade proficiency. Is that twisted, alternative fact? If so, how come? Not just because you say so!

I posted that despite your saying that educating kids is the responsibility of the parents, you like the idea of all of us chipping in for your student loans.

I posted that despite your saying that educating kids is the responsibility of the parents, you don't think parents have the right to ask about what's taught and to have an opinion.

I posted that despite your saying that educating kids is the responsibility of the parents, you don't think parents have the right to use their own tax dollars to educate their kids how they see fit.

Wayne, you actually believe that it's better public policy if my tax dollars are used to pay off your childs student loans that you chose to take on, rather than to pay for my kids to attend the school I think best serves their needs. You're saying you have more of a right to my money, than I do.

How are your kids more entitled to my money, than my kids? Why won't you answer that? How in Gods name does one become that entitled?

Unions. That's how.

I said repeatedly, all of us have a vested interest in good public schools, whether our kids are in private schools, or even if we have no kids.

Wayne, the fact that I care about the quality of public schools even though my kids don't attend, is proof that I care about people other than me. I want every single kid to have the same choices that my kids have.

I'm not silent on anything. You're the one who never responds to any challenging questions. Prove me wrong. Here goes...by what logic does your kid have more of a right to my tax dollars to pay off her student loans, than my kids have a right to my tax dollars to send them to the best school for them?

Just answer the question. This is what you clearly believe, so tell us why.

Proof that I'm not the coward you are...

The my pillow guy would be an idiotic choice for head of RNC.

Trump is a jerk who makes all kinds of mistakes.

If counties fail to certify elections be deadlines, let's look into why, and fix it.

There. I addressed every single point you claimed I was silent on. Now show me the same courtesy and answer this question...

by what logic does your kid have more of a right to my tax dollars to pay off her student loans, than my kids have a right to my tax dollars to send them to the best school for them? Why is your kid's education important enough to spend public money on, but my kids' education isn't?

News flash: If you outlaw abortions, criminalize providing gender affirming care for trans youth, dictate what educators can teach in schools, and stop people from voting, you're not the party of "limited government."

The sad truth is if Trump really wanted the GOP to disown him, he should have met with Liz Cheney instead of Kanye or Nick Fuentes.
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Conservatives want abortion decided at the state level, not at the federal level. That's perfectly in keeping with the idea of smaller federal government and more local control, which is the basis of conservatism. If it matters, it's also exactly in accordance with what the US constitution says. Once at the state level, advocating against the slaughter of a million unborn babies a year is hardly totalitarian. We like life. Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way.

"criminalize providing gender affirming care for trans youth"

This is so new, no one has had a chance to think about anything, the left keeps running as far as it can into the liberal abyss. I'm not sure how I feel about physically or chemically mutilating kids who aren't capable of making those decisions yet. I know how I feel about forcing female athletes to share locker rooms with boys.

"dictate what educators can teach in schools"

You really are an idiot. The idea that parents can have a say in what gets taught, is exactly in line with the idea of small government. We want individuals to have some influence, rather than letting the government have all the say. Your philosophy, which is to take tons of money from parents but forbid them from having a meaningful say in how it's spent, is obviously the big government approach. As often is the case with you, you git it exactly wrong.

"stop people from voting cheating"

Do drug tests stop people from working?

Fixed it for you. I have a friend who voted via mail-in ballot. The security there is that they validate the signature on the ballot (because everyone is trained to be handwriting analysts, right?). He's right-handed. He signed his ballot with his left hand, and signed it intentionally to look nothing like anything he has ever signed before. His ballot was accepted. It's obviously ripe with potential for fraud. I picked up a mail-in ballot for a relative who's in a nursing home, they just handed it to me without asking any questions. They had no idea who I was, nor did they care. There's no conceivable way of knowing that she would be the one to fill it out and return it.

"you're not the party of "limited government."

You are when the other side wants the federal government to be massive.

Wayne does this too. He says that every time a conservative proposes any kind of law, that he's violating the principles of small government. Wanting small government, isn't the same as wanting zero government.

Stick to claiming that John Brown and Abe Lincoln were liberals.

The my pillow guy would be an idiotic choice for head of RNC. your MAGA friends would disagree

Trump is a jerk who makes all kinds of mistakes. excuses so dining with a white supremacist is just a mistake

If counties fail to certify elections be deadlines, let's look into why, and fix it. more excuses they refused because their republicans claiming fraud

There. I addressed every single point you claimed I was silent on. Now show me the same courtesy and answer this question...

no really jim you just threw out some BS answers ... if any of those topics bothered you their would have been 3 paragraphs telling us about it

by what logic does your kid have more of a right to my tax dollars to pay off her student loans, than my kids have a right to my tax dollars to send them to the best school

it's very easy JIM once you pay your taxes it's not your money anymore .. why is that a hard concept to understand , what's next you disagree with Military spending and you want your % of tax back or I don't own a car so give me my highway and roads % back declaring its my tax Money it's a fantasy that once you pay it's still somehow yours

student loan relief is no different than PPP loans .. its giving taxpayer money to others ... funny I never complained about it you never complained about it ... but once you were told to be outraged about the student loan issue you and the rest of the conservative world had a meltdown and we all know why Because it wasn't a republican who is attempting to do something for the average American

But giving billions in tax cut and free money to Businesses whether they needed it or not . you and republicans remained silent and took the money

And if school choice for poor inner city black and minorities to have a better education is the actual goal of school choice . then why should it apply outside underperforming school districts ..

we all know the answer because it's about conservatives wanting to use public funds to send their children to religious schools .. just a wolf in sheep's clothing

wayne, we all benefit from roads and the military. Only your daughter benefits from going to college. that’s on her.

here’s an idea. when you take out a loan, you pay it back.

Crazy, i know.

Why is it ok for lu kid tax dollars to go to pay for your daughters college education, but not my kids private high school? Why do you have more of a right to those tax dollars

If my kids leave the public school, that helps the public school. Smaller class sizes, more money to spend on fewer kids. That’s a benefit to society.

Paying your kids student loan benefits you, no one else.

If your issue is that it’s public money, then give me a tax credit i stead of cutting me a check. Are you ok with school choice now?

wayne i had no idea who Nick Fuentes was i til this story and neither did you.

Kanye and fuentes were at some
huge event that trump
was also at . According to Fuentes, Kanye asked if he and Fuentes could sit at Trumps table. Trump said ok. Fuentes said it was clear Trump didn’t i ow anything about him.

What a scandal. Trump didn’t do a full background check before agreeing to sit with a guy he probably had never heard of.

Will Trump ever be indicted? How much energy has been spent smearing him, attacking him, investigating him. Please find a way to actually get him for something? or is the point merely to smear him so he can’t win another election? it’s been 6 years of non stop accusations.

every democrat presidential candidate in my lifetime has kissed all sharptons ring. Sharpton has actually killed people with his bile. But it’s no concern that he’s a big shot on the left. is he not a racist and a bigot?

Again, in regards to your “Separation of Curch and State” comment

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Predictable

This is just the stages of right wing acceptance
"Trump didn't do it: he was set up"
"He did it, but it wasn't illegal"
"It may have been, illegal, but so what? Not like he killed anyone "
"We're proud he did it because (insert Hunter, Hillary, Obama deflection.")

I don’t think you could overstate how completely Obama broke Jims mind. The fact that a black man was the most powerful person in the world for eight years and was popular and largely successful absolutely destroyed white power mythology and psychology and was the apocalypse for poor victims
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I would say all those schools are listed have a religious component but they are not tied or funded directly by the church and you can go to those schools regardless of your religious beliefs unlike on the local level if you’re a Muslim, I don’t think you’re going to get into the local Catholic Protestant or Jewish private school, which are funded and owned by local diocese

Unlike the schools you listed, you can be of a different religious denomination and still apply and gain admission so I would think federal monies could be excepted not violating the separation of church and state

Because those properties are not owned and operated by the church or churches or masjid or synagogue

But that’s only my opinion
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So Jim do you actually think that the guy who’s a former Potus and announced he is Running again who has a staff and a secret service detachment 24x7. Just allows anyone to just show up? And say. Hello really?



A simple google search shows who this guy was. Trumps people know this guy is ..

But not you your convinced Trump had no idea.. but you have no issues suggesting Paul Pelosi knew his attacker .. that’s some twisted rationale you have
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Sharpton has actually killed people with his bile.

Seek help Jim I guess you missed 4years of Trumps bile. Oh wait I am positive you support his bile. Why else would you defend him endlessly
Seeing you feel he is a victim and people keep

smearing him, attacking him, investigating him.

That usually happens to Scumbags their like onions there’s layer after layer of deceit, lies, half truths, questionable business practices. The list is endless and not made up.
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There’s really no difference between Boston College and Saint John’s Prep in regards to their religious affiliation. Why is it OK to use tax dollars towards a BC education and not OK to use Tax Dollars towards a Saint John’s education?
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St. John's University is a Roman Catholic institution open to students of all faiths.

However it's not funded and owed by the catholic church or other Church .. an affiliation Allows them have the ethics and belief system of their religion built into available programs, student organizations, and daily life.. but students are not mandated to attend or hold the same religious beliefs to attend ,

So there are no public funds to finance religious instruction and indoctrination.

As I see it like this If ones School choice is Church owned and Run and financed by a church diocese.. like All Saints Catholic School in fall River whom accept any student regardless of belief.

Still no public moneys should be allowed to fund students to attend it due to its Ownership and funding control

Not Saint John’s University, Saint John’s Prep. A private middle/high school in Danvers MA.

They are pretty much the same as BC as far as affiliation.

Why is BC good, but SJP bad?
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