I do, however, appreciate the pseudo-intellectual reference. For that, I am eternally grateful.

Yeah, That whole Accuracy thing in a Quarterback is Over-rated.....who cares if they can't hit the target. :rolleyes:

Sadest part of Vick ,et al ,is the affect they have as heros to our kids.
Very few if any to look upto.

It seems the only thing important in todays sports is excellence in stats,
and nothing to do with character or setting a good example.
:(

To EarnedStripes44:
Don't tell me that you think Vick should go on playing FB?
That his bad idea's that led to crimes should not be looked at by "Real Sports fans". Just let the guy pay the fines, even go to jail, but when he comes out he can have his job as 7th best QB to play the game back?
Why do you stick up for Pro Sports Loosers?
Why do you care about what records they broke in sports when they are the scum of even being a human being?
To give you an example of the type of Real Sports Fan I am...I wouldn't walk across the street to meet OJ Simpson, now this guy was found "innocent". Do I want to see him do well? No. Do I want his autograph? No, I wouldn't even take a signed jersy.
Vick can meet OJ in the All Pro Hall of Shame.
Another thing, Start another thread on Politics. We will agree more over there...not that it matters here.

Character and setting a good example to our kids means something to me. Perhaps that is what I was trying to say to EarnedStripes44.

So, he is 7th in winning percentage. He must be a great QB, then. By that logic, Philip Rivers and Rex Grossman were the best QB's in the league last year. Peyton Manning is definitely not as good as Grossman, huh? All right, now I have to actually look up some stats to show how bad Vick really is as a QB. I am not going to list the numbers, but they are all available on any NFL related website, so you cannot say it's a bunch of BS. The following all have better career QB stats (completion percentage and passer rating) than your homeboy Vick.
T. Brady, D. Brees, M. Brunnell, M. Bulger, J. Delhomme, B. Farvre, J. Garcia, T. Green, M. Hasselbeck, B. Johnson, B. Leftwich, P. Manning, D. McNabb, S. McNair, C. Palmer, C. Pennington, T. Rattay, P. Rivers, B. Rothlisberger, K. Warner, and last but not least..........the immortal Seneca Wallace. As you can see, some of these guys are not even starters anymore. I also left off guys like Romo who have better #'s, but have not played a full season yet. Now, I challenge you to come up with some of your handpicked stats to refute these numbers. Just because you have an unnatural love for an athlete, doesn't make him a great player. You can say that I am not a knowledgeable sports fan like you, but I am certain that I prove that Vick is a crappy QB. Case closed.

Remember, were talking about current starters at the opening of last season. The Falcons were terrible last season. Brett Favre is damn near twice Vicks age, Steve McNair is on his way out. Half the guys you named have a career in some cases a decade longer than Vicks. None of the players can rush for yds like Vick, no one except Steve Young. You named veterans, VETERANS, Vicks career will be cut in half and at no point did I say he was a veteran, dangerous yes, but not a veteran. Drew Brees is one of the best QB's in the league (I think Vick was top 10 starting quaterbacks last season given what he had to work with). Mike Vick had a higher passer rating last season than Ben Rothlisburger, Brad Johnson and even Rex Grossman. Vick was ranked 20th in QB rating. That's just passing. If rushing was included, it would be a significant boost, but I respect the idea that quaterback should throw.

Vick is a GOOD player.
Rolemodel, nope
Should he play professional football, that's not up to me? If the allegations prove true, then he should be out of there, he should'nt play under indictment. But if he is exonerated, shame on everyone....especially the media.

I could go on and on about his rushing, but you guys don't need to be reminded of that.

And, I'm sorry, I did'nt know it was more important that players be patron saints rather than athletes.

Vick is also the only quaterback to throw for 250 yds in conjunction with 100 yds rushing

This post is for those of you, who think upstanding citizenship are more important than capability....
In June 2006, Vick, along with his brother Marcus Vick and mother Brenda Vick Boddie, established The Vick Foundation, a nonprofit organization that supports at-risk youth and the after school programs that serve them in the Metro Atlanta and Hampton Roads areas. The announcement of the organization came just before the start of the foundation’s first fundraiser, the Michael Vick Golf Classic. The inaugural event was held at the prestigious Kingsmill Golf Course in James City County near Williamsburg, Virginia in partnership with The Virginia Tech Alumni Association Tidewater Chapter, and netted more than $80,000 for charity

After the Virginia Tech massacre in April 2007, Vick teamed up with the United Way to donate $10,000 to assist families affected by the tragedy.[55] Vick explained, "When tragic things like this happen, families have enough to deal with, and if I can help in some small way, that's the least I can do." The Vick Foundation is collecting donations from local communities in both Atlanta and Virginia that will be placed in the United In Caring Fund for Victims of the Virginia Tech Tragedy and the special fund at the United Way of Montgomery, Radford and Floyd counties, which serves the Virginia Tech area. Vick's foundation said the money will be used to provide help with funeral expenses, transportation for family members and other support services.

On June 22, 2007, a charity golf tournament featuring Vick, intended in part to raise scholarships in memory of Virginia Tech's shooting victims, was rescheduled for September.[58] The tournament at Kingsmill Resort & Spa had been set to begin on June 29, and a reason for the change was not announced. The tournament is the latest in a series of Virginia appearances either canceled or delayed since Vick's name surfaced in a dog fighting investigation

What a shame, now that he fights dogs, they won't even let him give back to the community...

Vick is a spokesperson for the Boys & Girls Club of Metro Atlanta and the Empty Stocking Fund and gives credit to the Boys & Girls Club in his hometown for helping him grow as a youth and provides a monetary donation through a player performance pledge to the local chapter for every touchdown pass. Vick also invited more than 100 kids from the Boys & Girls club locally to the team’s facility after a Saturday practice for a punt, pass and kick competition, as well as a flag football game. He purchased tickets for the kids to attend a Falcons game the next day.

As a part of ESPN.com's "Jocks to GI's", he had a GI e-mail pen pal overseas during the war with Iraq that he communicated with in the spring of 2003. He and USAF Staff Sgt. Angela Geist from Lawrenceville, Georgia, shared emails and life experiences.
Named to Sports Illustrated's "101 Most Influential Minorities In Sports" in May of 2003 at #77 and was chosen to be the EA Sports cover athlete and spokesman for (John) Madden NFL 2004.

Madden doesnt think he so bad

You guys better come stronger...

Now you're changing things again. You use stats from Vick's career when it makes him look good, but you use stats from last year when I bring up career stats of other notable players. You kept bringing up winning percentage, but when I brought up Rex Grossmans winning percentage being better than Vick's, You say that Vick had a better passer rating. Get your argument straight. You are making more of a fool of yourself with each post. Vick's passer rating has been poor for his entire career. QB's are judged on passer rating because they are supposed to pass. Running backs are supposed to run the ball. Being a mobile QB is not the same as being a running QB. Vick runs because he is not a good QB. He is not good at reading and breaking down defenses, and he is lousy at checking down to 2nd and 3rd options. He does not stay in the pocket and doesn't give his O-line a chance to block for him because he breaks off plays at the first sign of a pass rush. Bottom line is that if you are judging him as an NFL quarterback, he is closer to the bottom than the top of the rankings. I'm sure you are very intelligent, but you are not covering yourself in glory trying to make an argument that Vick is even a "good" quarterback. But, I know you won't let facts get in the way of your argument

He doesnt not have 2nd and 3rd options. Rex Grossman has killer receivers, there is no doubt about that. Last season was Vick's worse season without a doubt. We can talk about the other seasons if you prefer? Yes, your right Vick runs to overcompensate for his lack of accuracy, but he is more accurate than nearly a third of all QB's in the league. He also runs because he is exceptionally good at it.

Now with regards to facts, they speak for themselves. I've posted them throughout the thread. For you to say Vick is a marginal QB, including the fact that he runs like an ostrich, just holds no water whatsoever. I've said this four or five times and no one has countered it. Until the recent troubles, Vick has only be in the league all of 6 years. He is only 27. Incredible potential flushed down the drain. I will concede that Michael Vick is a GOOD quaterback, he is amazingly athletic. His arm is a solid C, but overall,he is GOOD, he is a solid B. I would not just write off a QB who can throw 90 yards and scramble for that same amount. Read the facts, man. There are plenty of players who started out rough, but ended up making history. Be objective.

I never said Vick was overrated and I never said he was underrated, I believe you did....I said he was dangerous, both on the field and to the pit bulls.

I also have some mild criticisms of how QB rating is calibrated

It does'nt take into account how sacks.
Rushing yards have no bearing whatsover on the numbers.
should be measured along the lines of yards per play not yards per attempt.

and i'm going to remind you that Vick holds the NCAA freshmen record for passing efficiency. So the potential for growth is clearly there.

This is what someone else said about QB rating....but I think it applies here in an effort to further thwart the stoning of Vick's efforts as an athlete (not dog owner) by the inflamed passions of the mob.

...is that the formula overemphasizes Completion Percentage. While Completion % in and of itself makes up 25% of the rating's calculation, the use of Yards per Attempt rather than Yards per Completion adds to the weight of Completion %, since incomplete passes are penalized under yds/attempt. Thus, many critics feel that the Passer Rating formula automatically is skewed in favor of quarterbacks who play in a West Coast scheme that favors many high-percentage (but low-yardage) pass plays.
- Vick cannot play the West Coast scheme, its not his style.

The simplest complaint may be that the weighting of each category is, on the whole, arbitrary. There is no evidence to suggest that Completion %, Yards/Attempt, Touchdown %, and Interception % are of equal value (25% each) in terms of an offense's efficiency (or if those stats, in that combination, have any correlation to scoring, or winning, at all). The system also does not account for changing offensive conditions in the NFL over time; for example, when the formula was devised, a score of 66.6 was supposed to represent an average quarterback. And in 1970 , the average passer scored a 65.6, a figure almost perfectly in line with the rating-creators' vision. But in 1980 , the average was 73.7; in 1992, the average quarterback had a rating of 75.3; and in 2004, a record-setting year for passers, the league's mean passer rating was 82.8. The great Johnny Unitas finished his hall of fame career with only a 78.2 rating. At least part of the reason for the increase in passer ratings is that the NFL has consistently made rule changes favoring the offense. Thus, scores must be interpreted with care when doing cross-era analysis.

No one has countered the fact that Vick is a great runner because......well, he is a great runner. In fact, I'll even go so far as to say he is a great athlete. But, I will stick to the argument that he is not even a good QB. He is closer to the bottom than the top in stats that measure how good a QB is. And no, being able to run is not one of them. Would you agree that being good would mean that you have to be in the top half of QB's in the league? If so, Vick is in the bottom half of the league in all meaningful QB stats. He was #24 in completions last year, #20 in passer rating, #31 in completion percentage, #22 in yards per attempt, 16th in INT's, and was the 6th most sacked QB in the league. The only stat where he ranked in the top half of QB's was TD passes thrown where he was ranked #10.

NOW FOR THE BEST PART:

No matter what system is used, a large part of a quarterback's success is related to the talent around him. A poorly thrown pass can be overcome with a great catch, and the perfect pass can be dropped. The offensive line also has quite a lot to do with the quarterback's success.

You are a Vick Fan!
No Idea what Cloud you are in.
You mention all the non-profit organizations...PLEASE...The guy has Millions of $$$. Pay taxes or start a non-profit and make yourself look like someone who cares.
Scum Bag is what Vick will ever be in my mind.
You Said...."What a shame, now that he fights dogs, they won't even let him give back to the community"...He just didn't fight dogs, he tourtured them, hung them, picked them up and slammed them to the floor, his idiot friends did no better. Shocking dogs to death.
You want this Jerk off to have ties to the community?
What a role model to the Boys and Girls club.

Being such a Vick fan, maybe you can answer this.
Last year Vick gave the finger to HIS OWN fans.
My question is, Atlanta fans hated Vick after that game. Some didn't care, but many wanted him gone. Why did the Falcons keep him?
Did the Falcons have too much money invested in him?
Thought maybe you might know.

I'm gonna leave the peanuts to the New Hampshire residents. What sports team do you guys have. Keep riding....

oh and to the Burlington Police who are so concerned about the post count....get some visibility. Where the hell is Burlington anyway....Vermont. What the hell are you doing on a Striped Bass fishing website. Aren't you guys planning your succession from the union.

The fact that he accepted this role as a Spokesperson for B&G Clubs means he also accepted the responsibilty of being a role model for the Youth.....and at that he failed miserably. You don't put your face on an organization like that and behave the way he has.


Big Whooped-di-do.......he made that on one Dog Fight

Maybe using a "revised" QB ranking Vick may rise from mediocore to good. But as it stands he continues to be in the lower percentile of NFL QB performance.

Manchester Monarchs-LA Kings
Manchester Wolves-Pro indoor FB Team
Nashua Pride-Can-Am League
NH Fisher Cats- Tor. Bluejays
NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS!!!!
They almost found a home in New Hampshire, but Foxboro put up one hell of a fight to keep the team in Foxboro....where else can you pay $30.00 to park.
Some would call Motorsports a Sport...I do.
That would leave Lee USA Speedway
New England Dragway-IHRA sanctioned track
New Hampshire International Speedway-SCCA, CART, and I am sure you have heard of NASCAR! There are also the Busch Tour, ACT Tour and many others that frequent the Track.
Do you ski? MANY Mountains for that...you've heard of Bode Miller.
Don't ever forget that Mass. alone could not afford to run Boston Red Sox, Boston Bruins, Boston Celtics and the New England Patriots
without the money from Maine, NH, VT, RI and Conn. FANS!!!

"What sports team do you guys have. Keep riding...."
What a stupid statement to make...

Anyone see the news tonight?
NFL Commision is sick to their stomachs...actual quote
Atlanta has the most pet owners of any other city in the US.
Fans are Stunned!
Way To Go Vick....Hey don't worry you still have a Fan in Cambridge, MA...he knows more about you then you do yourself.