Wow, what praise!!! :humpty:

Thanks,

-spence

Oh excuse me FDR WAS A FRIGGIN DEMOCRAT!!!!

I take it back.

:cheers2:

:agree:

-spence

Hey, I write plenty of checks to charity - you should try it cause as I said you seem pretty miserable and seem to have a lot of hate. It might help your self esteem and cheer you up.

The ones who have more should be asked to do more. That's why people at different income levels should pay at different rates.

Good for Hillary - NY pays far more in taxes than they receive back from the Fed. Anything that she can do to level that field, I'm all for. States that don't pay their fair share should be ashamed of themselves and should admit that its basically welfare.

Paul,
real 'Collapse' by Jared Diamond (Also wrote Guns, Germs and Steel).

Great chapter on Montana and how it stays afloat as a viable state b/c of fed input of money...

Typically the big "Blue States" like CA, MN, IL, NY, NJ, MA, CT, VT etc...pay more in Federal Taxes and get less in return while the "Red States" suck more from the Federal Government and return less in tax revenue. It's not a clear split, but there's clearly a trend.

This does make some sense for the most part. States with large economies like CA or NY are going to generate more taxable revenue streams, they also have a lot of wealth.

So when hurricane Katrina leveled LA, MS and AL...they can thank their stars there were states with a net positive revenue contribution to help them rebuild in a time of need. Is this socialisim? A waste of your tax money?

-spence

I read Spence's post and you get lost in all the blab. I like things simple.
An absoulte FACT, Hillary Clinton proposed a $5000 benefit for woman having children.
to 179's point - dont take my money and give it away. A child is a choice (right libs?) so dont make me pay for someones choice.
A govenments role is to provide opportunity and not charity. Some people need help, but for many that becomes a crutch.
My wifes family came here from India in the early 80s ( she is Chinese) her Dad died after a few years here, her Mom, who barely spoke English, raised 3 kids in San Francisco, all alone. All her kids are college educated (they put themeselves through school) and very successful. They didnt whine about race, they didnt whine about welafare, The got off there arse and got it done, which is what ALL immigrants did for years coming to this country. This is the land of opportunity, opportunity means HARD work.
The more money the governmetn takes in taxes, the less money I spend on landscaping, fast food, imports, etc. That takes money right out of the hands of the people, who as Spence says, are trying to get off the ground. The wealthy benefit the poor by "buying" goods and services, which in turn benefits those who work. Give a man a fish he eats for day, teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime.

Well, it's not really a fact that she proposed it. She mentioned that she "liked the idea". Having done no assessment of potential cost or return you can hardly call this a "proposal".

And while I can't say I would endorse this specific proposal, I can see the logic. We have a real problem today with funding higher education, and this may cause critical economic problems in the future as we loose our leadership position to other emerging nations in many fields. You don't think the Chinese government isn't trying to create an army of engineers and scientists to bump off the US system?

I could see a grant of a US Bond to be used for education as a means to help deal with this issue. This isn't an endorsement, but the idea that someone might consider it shouldn't be construed as socialisim.

-spence

see my solution would be, every parent, stops smoking ciggarettes, stops renting dvds, stops buying lunch and collects alluminum cans in order to save $5000 for their children. Its a unique idea called "sacrifice".

Thanks, I may get the book at the library.

I really don't mind paying taxes to help areas/people who are less fortunate than me/us. However, it makes me laugh when people complain about taxes or welfare when they receive benefits more than they pay into the system.

and a republicans view of sacrifice would be wasting american lives to fuel corperate profits. :hee:

Easy to say for someone with even the slightest means. How many kids are out there right now with parents living paycheck to paycheck?

Certainly individual responsibility is important, but the reality is that our society is a balance between the individual and the group. A good question would be if States could deal with the broader educational issues on their own assuming the indivudual were more responsible? You might still have too much variation considering how the wealth and education is dispersed in our country. Perhaps, some Federal action would be for the better of the group, and our long term benefit as a result. At least the issues should be dealt with in real terms, and not just plastered with talking points meant for snippets on the nightly news.

-spence

I think a better question might be...I was told that the Iraq war would cost about $150 Billion by those who were leading the charge. We now see it's real cost over $1 Trillion, largely due to mistakes and strategic error...caused not simply by unforseen challenges, but rather largely from judgement skewed by the radically liberal idiological disillusion of neoconservatisim.

In this case isn't President Bush taking MY MONEY to persue his radically liberal vision to restructure the Middle East via something so objectionable to the public as (not preemptive but) "preventative war"?

How is this any different than Hillary taking your money for healthcare or education.

Discuss.

-spence

I agree. I dont want him doing that either.

:cheers2:

-spence

PaulS- If you give more of your hard earned cash and time to local charities than I do hats off to you. The only problem is I am not talking about a charity. If you think that the IRS and Hillary are entitled to more money then write the check. Stop spending all your time and effort trying to explain why somebody else should have to pay and not you it is really getting old. It looks like the tax rebate will be voted on today, if passed you could always return your check when it comes in May it might help with your guilty conscious. If you return that check maybe Hillary will get her museum?

179,

Why do you have such a visceral issue with a Democrat asking for more of your money to spend, when 50% of the Government is Republicans already taking your money and spending it in wasteful ways?

It would seem as though the anger could be spread around.

-spence

he is brainwashed. poor soul. Maybe a good democratic victory will awaken his thought process.

:cheers2:

anyone note the3 trillion dollar budget, courtesy of a Republican President Bush. He really gives the pubes a bad name. I believe, but I will refer to the fact checker, that this is the largest proposed EVER!!!

Among other things included are:

-28 billion for nuclear arms programs

-Education programs are expected to be frozen at 60 billion dollars with no increase to keep pace with inflation

Talk about priorities...let alone fiscal responsiblility