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Been using Gami Octos(usually 6/0) for a long time and have landed dozens of big fish with them. Never once had one snap or straighten out.
Is this a common occurence? |
sometimes you just don't land them
with a glass rod and mono, i'd really concentrate on the hookset with eels, don't think you'll be able to set too hard, so give it hell if they take you in the rocks, don't be afraid to take the line off the pickup and let them go just holding the line between your fingers and applying enough pressure to keep slack out. once they move out of the rocks, just start the fight all over. and don't be afraid to let them run on a looser drag. they usually wear themselves out that way and are more controllable in close. if you fish a tight drag and don't let them run, they tend to dive for obstructions more. just a few ideas that i've found have helped me, but sometimes the fish wins. Its part of the fun (i think :huh:) |
[QUOTE=Clogston29;647697]sometimes you just don't land them
with a glass rod and mono, i'd really concentrate on the hookset with eels, don't think you'll be able to set too hard, so give it hell[Quote] First off, by your definition of 'Monstah' almost no one in this thread have landed one, with a few notable exceptions... But on 'Decent' fish... I agree 100%. As a mono/composite rod guy (1201m) Hookset is vital. I fish next to a guy who fishes braid and stiff graphite. he flicks his wrist and is hooked up :smash: And I fish Mustad hooks.... I learned by watching a crew from Newport that specializes in chunking and big fish. Drop the tip, extend your arms, AND when it comes tight, set the hook.Your reel should be behind your ear! other than that, it's half luck, half skill and half circumstances :smash: |
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i think, but am not sure, that luds is talking about the gami circles. a buddy of ours was using them and losing some good fish. it took a while for us to notice that the point of the hook was breaking at the bend - and he was fishing them "right", not setting the hook.
octi's are decent hooks. but try out the gami live bait (not live bait hd) and you won't go back. best eel hooks out there IMHO. another thing that i noticed (and it may just be me) but i've had better hookup ratios when using my 1213m (glass) for eels with 7/0 live bait hooks than the 6/0 that i typically use. i've also found that the glass rod sucks for riggies (not only because its too heavy) because its too soft to drive the 9/0 siwashes home. |
Clgston and brian are right on!
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the one's he is using for eeling are really good hooks..thick shank...huge barb....wide gap..perfect eel hook...tough to find though |
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1979 SW point..had fish every single cast all night long and only got one to the beach. (And I thought I was pretty accomplished then) All the fish were monsters. I was outgunned, tired and frankly pretty embarrassed. I had 3 empty spools by daybreak. Walked into Twin Maples the next morning and told the old man what happened to me that night...first question was, what kind of line were you using...I said 17# stren...he didn't say a word an plopped a big fat spool of 50# ande pink on the counter with a thud. I said I don't think I can cast that line all that far. His response was "Distance is not your problem son." The next night was epic.
The next thing that went were those crappy mustad trebles that came on the gibbs plugs (and rebbles/redfins). I replace all the them with hand brazed stainless steel trebles from Eagle claw (they don't make them any more...I asked, I still have a few they bring back found memories, I remember they were $100 per box and some thought I was nuts, but after loosing fish of a lifetime, you don't care what it cost you just want another shot at them.) (this was pre-vmc days). Then moved to ultra heavy split rings. |
I also use the Gami Octopus in size 5,6, or 7/0. I like the fact they are slightly offset and have a hunch it increases hookups. I always snell the hook and feel more confidence since switching to that knot. It's fun to tie, especially in the dark. I will say the 7/0 size had reports of snapping but I've heard it has been resolved. I have never had one bend or snap though.The short shank in addition to the straight eye make snelling the live bait difficult IMO.I love going to M&D's in the Spring to say Hi to Mike Thomas who is the true definition of a gentleman. Mike has great prices in bulk and I will buy packs of 100 pc. hooks in addition to bulk packs of spro swivels in size 4 which are rated to 130#. Probably overkill but I feel the heavier guage wire will not cut into my leader or braid, also a confidence booster when fighting large near the rocks. Very strange year for me as I have always used the method RIrock employs for setting up on a fish. This year the majority of fish were nibblers regardless of size therefore I pulled the eel out of many mouths before I switched to fishing eels with the line between my fingertips and letting them take the bait. I would then place the line on the roller and set the hook. Every year we learn more and expect the unexpected.
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Mr. Sandman, your response brings back memories! I wish we had VMC trebles back then on the Island. Sea dangles, over alot of years fishing with live eels I too like the Gami 5/0 and 6/0 octupus. I've only had one snap mid shank and will throw the m away ( hooks) after a good night. I also use Gami 7/0 's on the rigged sluggos and had one get completly straightened ot on Cutty one night. Other than that, these hooks are dependable I think. Also, this season I really got back into live eeling and tried octapus hooks by Owner and was really impressed. They are alot like the Gami's but I think a little stronger and more expensive though. A little smaller too. In the Owner I had to use 6/0 and 7/0. I don't use really big eels like some.
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it is the best part of this surfcraziness that we ALL aspire to, letting them take all the line they think they can. i LOVE that part. only this biggun from last year i let almost spool me four times and she took me straight into the boulders in my avatar(dead low/the water in the foreground is about 4 inches deep) at the start of the second run. that is where she began to rub me after the last run, and i chose to try to bring her up after strumming the line to no avail~~~ her head was turned, she hunkered down and i had about 3 wraps of line left on my spool when she began to rubb me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,4 pumps and she was gone. i could feel my line ticking back and forth off of the rocks before i stopped her the 4th time and i could feel it getting weaker and weaker with each turn of the reel. should've replaced the spool line from the 38#er, a 30#, and a 25#er the night before same tide/same place/ALL on eeeeeeeeeeeels. the saddest part was that this was the AM of 9/21, bro,,,,,,,,,,we fight and we learn!!:spin: :spin: :spin: my hook sets seem to be fine. bow to the cow, 1-Mississippi, 2-Mississippi, 3-Mississi; with a verrry loose drag. then i roll it into her maw, thanks to Vic for that, and tighten the drag only slightly. i use 6/0 to 8/0 Gammi Octo's (depending on the beefiness of the snake) that i snell with Ande 60 pink or Ande 50 IGFA and have never had one snap. i only cross her eyes after she's taken it for awhile,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,had no problems with them coming unbuttoned, so faaaaar. thanks again Clogston, for yer helpful suggestions. |
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by monstahs, my attention grabbing title, i meant 50's and up or the trophy variety of our beloved species. i like mustads as well, but have difficulty in finding them regularily and big enuff. will have to buy them buy the gross from the Boyz at the Edge or from Kevin or at Sam's the next time i get to NPT. Kay prolly has them as well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i will look into it for next season. the Owner hooks i've found to be excellent, as you said Steve. they are tough to find in Saugus as well. am very willing to try any product at least once, although i DO have considerable confidence in the Gammi line. THANKS a million to everyone for contributing so generously! :kewl: :kewl: :kewl: |
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i'm a big fan of the spro 130's, it's all i use. thanks to you, also, for your technical pointers. i cain't wait to try all of these advices out when THE COWWWS COME HOME!!! :jump: :jump: |
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That VMC is pretty impressive and I've got one hanging on my tool rack right in front on me in the tackle shack. Keep thinking about giving them a try. There's also a short shank SS hook with a point like a ####ing hypodermic - but SS is brittle and a coupla whacks on the local rocks'd knock that thin point off in no time. Plus I'm not a big SS fan for the obvious reason. The old bronze Mustads do require a lot of touching up with a file - but for the money, they're fine by me. I've always had good luck with 'em - if it ain't real broke...I don't bother messing with it. I use a 5/0 or a 6/0 - I just don't like an offset hook or a kirbed point since I don't - as in won't - snell. YMMV, I guess... |
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#9 Fishing is stupid, anyways. :wavey: |
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As for this thread, I can't tell anyone how many monsters it takes as I have no idea. The central theme here has become "gear related failures". I think that's why we lose the best ones. You're either undergunned or don't monitor the condition of your gear closely enough. Once you've hooked a fish, most of the chance/luck has been removed from the equation and it comes down to the condition and ability of your gear. There's a few tricks involved too. A couple guys I grew up fishing the outer cape with started fishing the Elizabeth chain several years ago by boat. They were losing a lot of fish in the rocks at first as we used to just snub them down when fishing over sand. One of them finally decided to just open his bail once a good fish entangled him in the rocks and he would just stand there with his bail open until the fish came free. The landing numbers of real large fish really improved after that. I wouldn't advocate this in the canal for the most part, but I can tell you two of the largest surf fish I've taken in the last few years came from RI and were pulled out of literal boneyards via the open bail technique. Once the fish frees itself, it tends to give in and come to shore more readlily. |
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Hmm.:cheers: |
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I took one 38 lbs one time that swamped the bunker I was livelining right next to the jetty I was fishing.I knew i could not set up on him cause the fish would surely be along the rocks.I just opened up and let it go.After it was done pulling line I just tightened up.Sure enough the fish had gone around the jetty and had me rapped up pretty good.I just let little increments of line out so it would not wear in any one particular spot and break me off..After a while I just killed it on the end of the line and brought it back nice and slow.Now I have had this happen to me a few times before And was not as successful. First time huge boil and the take I set up and the line blows up...Next time I let her run some and tried to set up.Break in the line.I always used 30 lb big game for livelining bunker.They could pull it so why not.So I figure they where taking the bait and riding along the rock line.. Believe me I have thought about what I could do different long and hard.This was in the span of a few years.You only get a few shots per year at the good ones. My bating average was not good.But I learned my lesson.. Every fish is different.You cannot expect the playing field to be the same every time no matter if you fish the same area's all the time or not.Often times bigger fish don't do what the smaller ones do when hooked up.It's what you do when you are hooked up that counts.Some are able to put together the right moves in short time,some it takes longer. It's the beauty of the sport.If you ask me. |
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Don't forget I got spooled in the canal this year by being too nice. Not sure it was a huge fish or not, but the next time I hooked a good fish in the same place/same tide I snubbed it and got my best fish of the season. Problem with the canal a lot of times is you have 100 plus yards of line out when you actually hook up and it doesn't take a monster fish to spool you, just a modest fish in big current or foul hooked will beat you til you cry... |
Jim Powers, The best jigger of the ditch I know,has a interesting technique as a work in progress.He has landed smaller fish with it.Of course it is to be used as a last ditch effort.he opens the bail up and lets the current take the line.The philosophy is that the current pulls the line behind the fish and either she thinks she's free and swims back up current or she pulls against the pressure of the line behind her and starts to head up current. He has had it work.This is with 300 yds of braid at your expense and some big balls.My balls are not that big( I have been told they are an good size:laughs:) as I have encountered the ditch beast and have not been successful.I have landed good fish on the jig in the current yet the beast has eluded me.I did not let em run I thought I had the gear to stop the beast.And I did.I pulled the hook.
A 9/0 gami siwash embedded in a 5 oz jig.After a good five minutes of standoff.That felt much longer. I had to make a decision as I was out of time.Another one I have thought about long and hard.I still have not come up with the alternate game plan for that fish. I would probably will do the same thing again and hope I have it hooked better. |
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however, when one only has three wraps left on the line,,,,,,,, one can't quite open the bail to let her spool you, right?? as for yer insinuation that this has become a gear failure thread have you read all the technical and philosophical advice that has been shared throughout?? likewise, since i've only been at this for three seasons, i remember EVERY BIGGURL i've LOST and my count is: Trophies 5, BassDawg 0. i know that it is a verrry subjective answer, and different for ALL, just trying to quantify where i am in the grander scheme of things and how my part fits into the whole piece a pie, caaa peesh? this is also an attempt to examine some of the intangibles that go into our surfcasting pursuits, more specifically related to wrastlin' sum trophy-sized Mommas from amongst the rocks. most responses have been helpful and entertaining, to say the LEAST!! BESIDES, with all this stinkin' schnow on the ground whatelse didjya wanna talk about, the price of oil in Saudi Arabia???? :bl: :bl: :bl: |
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that's what i'm talking about, Tony!!! of THE 5, each one reacted differently, AND each one had their own way to PLAY the same rocks. two where in different udl's, but three where basicaly hooked same tide/same place with only slight variations in depth of water and where they hit. the one from last year was the first one to take me STRAIGHT into the boulders to seek/win her freedom,,,,,,,,,,,,sschmahht beeotch, she waz, and YES!! NIB, it is the inherent and REAL beauty of what we do!! i absolutely love and crave this battle of wits and strengths and gears and rocks and tackles and conditons that pits man against nature, surf, and beast!!! sometimes we win, sometimes the feesh! better to have had the battle and lost, than to have stayed in bed and never had the shot in the first place, imho. :kewl: :kewl: :kewl: |
Sometimes you may think the line is getting chafed on rocks ,when the reality is your leader is dragging across the sandpaper-like maw. Once again, be patient.
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There's a good chapter in "The Trophy Striper" by Daignault that addresses the losing of a big fish. I think its called "Why we lose the best ones." Worth a read. |
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Pulled hooks--even 9/0 jig hooks, are part of the game when you use a stiff rod, heavy braid and a tight drag. This year, I wound up using my All Star 1208 more, and found that I cut down pulled hooks measurably over the 1209. The 1208 has enough bend to the tip section, but it has a very strong mid-to-butt section and a lot of lifting power. There are still some places in the Canal where you have to horse the fish and the choice is pressure it to the limit of your gear and risk pulling the hook, or have it get around some nasty junk and risk the line abrading to the breaking point. Pulled hooks, though, will happen on any rod. I dropped the biggest fish--well, what felt like the biggest fish anyway ;)--that I hooked up with in the Canal using a 132 1M which is a relatively soft, parabolic rod. No slack, constant pressure on the fish, and the hooks just tore loose. Sometimes it's the angle between you and the fish :huh: |
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waz thinking of picking up that book for XMAS, yet there is the other two that i had at the top of me winter reading List. Zeno's latest and DJ's book from last year. i also would like to get my hands on anything by Tim Coleman. sum vintage stuff right there, i've read Striper Surf twice from cover to cover and reread it every year for its pearls of surfwisdom. LOVED Skinner's book from last year,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ALL are excellent reads and were verrrrry helpful in taking me to the next level with eeeeeeeels and riggies. mostly, i just gottsta keep on fishing hard and good things will come~~ with patience and heavy gear and good feesh MOJO!! :bl: :bl: :bl: :bl: |
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