Too bad indeed
 

Too bad so many of you are so self impressed and so distrusting of anyone you don't know, or worse yet, understand. Engineers, with no scientific training, calling out professional scientists who have spent countless hours in the field doing research in the hopes of understanding the plight of the striped bass. Sad.

Too bad others here see the solution as simple as taking up new arms or moving to greener pastures to continue killing once the fish are no longer able to be killed in historically lucrative waters. Pathetic.

Too bad folks post on here hoping to enlighten others to possible factors affecting the fish we all love, only to have their well intentioned act turned into a bitchandblame fest amongst fools. Shameful.

Until every single striper catcher accepts that they own a share in the issue there will be no hope for recovery of the bass.

But fear not, the government will step in and shut down fishing, and lock us all out, in order to save the species. Let's hope it doesn't become a permanent lock out. I'd like to go surfcasting for stripers with my grandchildren in 20 years.

,,,,,,,,,no hard poundage cap on recs................and..Pew style foundations monies will solve the problem.....for all of us + the fish......."yes my son, when I was your age we fished here-now a MPA-several years back the recs & com stired up such a high level of controversy-the foundation monies lobbied the closure under the guise of conservation"...........@#$%^&*()+#$% it! I'm go'n fish'n..........stealth :)......

seems to me to be a STOCK issue
 

are we or are we not
confusing the spawns??

as i understand it~~~
the majority of the MA, RI migratory feesh come from
the Hudson River stock, no??

so how would rain, pollution, in CHSPKE Bay
affect our spawn/YOY index? positively or negatively?
additionally, could these be the racers that get mixed in
with the run of COWS these past coupla yrs in shore and that have been gettin' hammered off shore?

also, as i understand it~~~
the mycobact. problems, while not exclusive to the OBX,
is it not the most prevalent there? hence, the lack of
flesh-pocked stripers that i've YET to sea in only 4 years.

from what i've read~~~
we must be more concerned about the
non-consumption of many of our stripers, since
the Hudson River is loaded w/ PCB's and pharmaceuticals??

lastly~~~
while last year was SLOW and WHACKY for me, personally,
others i've talked with and know did well, right around the cove,
up the river, or two beaches down from me ALL season!! also, i ran into Schoolies and cookie cutter nights that ranged from 16"- 32" and many sizes in between. the only thing i did miss, at my usual known producers was the BIG GURLS. and there was a serious lack of BAIT!

so what can i glean from all of this? gonna bang the surf HARD again in 2010, like it was my job. i will still fish the tournies i always fish. i will hopefully get to put my nephews and daughter on some decent fish at some point this summer. i will endeavor to fish with more of YOU momma jahmoaks!!! WHY? because this is the most effin' FUN and CHALLENGE i can find that's legit and gets me outta tha house, and youse guys are pretty cool to hang out with once you step away from the keyboards and wet a line to chase our beloved prey.

FISH AWWWN, soon enough gents,,,,,,,,,,,,FISH AWN!

After rereading your post I'm beginning to wonder, Numby...:smokin:

To carry it one step further, if the gene pool has become smaller (less diverse) due to the number of fish in a school that hits it big, is the resulting YOY class more prone to disease and abnormalities?

In other words, is the result weakened immune systems made worse by a lack of forage or a genetic predisposition toward certain diseases like microbacteriosis?

I'll be the first to admit that I may be stepping into water over my head and deep enough to make my hat float on issues involving dominant/recessive genes, but I do know a good bit about dog breeding and the inadvisability of dating one's sister or cousins

Or maybe it's still just a case of 'all of the above' in regards to breeding, forage, fishing pressure on the stock and the state of the marine environment in which they live

I think I'll have to brew another cup of starter fluid to see if this becomes any clearer...:yawn:

I am giving myself a popsicle headache going through a bunch of Menhaden research papers.
So many variables, the data is all over the place, some common, some not.

You can find whatever you are looking for.

I am blinded by science.

a qoute from a freinds brother''Years ago there were plenty of fish and and no fish scientist,now there are plenty of fish scientist and no fish.''

JUST MY 2CENTS
As i understand it bass spawning requires the proper PH in the brackish waters of a river. If the water moves to fast the eggs move into saline to soon and die.
The Hudson river with its limestone cliffs has helped the stripers in this system in spite of the chemicals
I also feel the menhaden and herring problem need to be addressed and now that licence money is involved,we as club members will have more clout than commercial interests,be they menhaden or sea herring netters and i hope we can turn things around for the betterment of stripers

Menhaden has a huge impact especially since it is a filter for the ocean. Typically Menhaden and oysters would take care of the algae blooms but since we've also taken all the oysters the only thing left is Menhaden. Wonder how all those oysters dis-appeared? Oh yeah they were in demand by clients of the commercial guys. Good excuse to eliminate them. Here's an interesting article on Menhaden

The article below was written in 2007. And folks it's only become a bigger issue over the last 3 years. Here's the article;

Thursday, August 23, 2007
PRAY FOR THE PREY: GRN STAFF SUMMER BOOK REVIEW
THE MOST IMPORTANT FISH IN THE SEA BY H. BRUCE FRANKLIN

The Gulf of Mexico as a region is frequently forced to deal with ecological catastrophes from which the rest of the country can learn. Cases in point would be Louisiana’s staggering coastal land loss, and the dead zone created by nutrient pollution from the Mississippi River. These massive problems point researchers to the lessons of excess nitrogen and phosphorus in marine ecosystems, and the important roles that natural sediment and fresh/saltwater regimes play in maintaining estuarine wetlands.

It’s a less frequent occurrence when those who manage our natural resources can look to other parts of the country and learn from their mistakes. In H. Bruce Franklin’s “The Most Important Fish in the Sea,” that’s exactly the opportunity that is presented, in the form of an exhaustive chronicle of a modest fish.

Following the boom-bust economic/ecological history of menhaden (or alewives, or moss-bunkers, or in the Gulf the fish known as pogies) up and down the Atlantic Coast, this book underscores again and again the role the fish play in a functioning ecosystem: as forage for predatory fish, birds, marine mammals and sharks; and as filter feeders, challenging even oysters in their ability to clean waters of excess nutrients and algae. That ecological role is underscored in the face of seemingly thoughtless commercial exploitation, first for fertilizer, then for oil, finally for a mix of feed for farm animals and aquaculture, oil for health supplements and some pet foods.

As the industry fished this species again and again to regional population collapses, driven by an ever-more efficient fleet of airplane-guided purse seines, people finally began to catch on to the impact. Few would complain about the absence of menhaden, as it’s a fish no one eats, but the absence of menhaden began to have impacts to other strands in the food web once anchored by this oily fish, and as striped bass began to show signs of stress due to lack of their primary forage, recreational fishermen in the Atlantic grew concerned. As this concern fueled political opposition to the fishery, states began to close their waters to this near-monopoly, and the industry turned toward the Gulf.

Now the second largest fishery by weight in the U.S., most menhaden are caught in Gulf waters. More precisely, due to net bans in Florida and Alabama, most menhaden are caught in Mississippi, Louisiana, and some Texas waters. With a processing plant in Empire, LA, Daybrook Fisheries is the smaller force in the industry, dwarfed by Omega Protein which owns processing plants in Moss Point, MS and Abbeville, and Cameron, LA. Despite the size of the harvest, and the efficiency of the fleet, there currently exist no annual catch limits for the Gulf menhaden fishery. Within the industry’s self appointed summer season, they catch what they can find.

Of course some of what they find within a menhaden school aren’t solely the prey, but sometimes the predator. In the very little amount of information the industry has ever allowed off the deck of a menhaden boat, researchers have reported shark bycatch as high as 148 blacktip and spinner sharks caught in a single purse seine set. In addition to sharks, fishermen have reported the disappearance of dolphins for weeks at a time after the menhaden fleet visits their waters.

In our region it’s not striped bass that recreational fisherman would be watching closely, but our popular spotted seatrout (specks) and red drum (redfish) both eat menhaden, which is why it is such an effective bait. As much as 95% of the spring redfish diet can consist of menhaden.

While our Gulf ecosystem struggles with vanishing wetlands and a seemingly endless dead zone, we may be wise to pay close attention to the troubling tale of menhaden over exploitation on the Atlantic Coast that Mr. Franklin’s book shares with us, and look at the role that menhaden play in those larger, more immediate concerns. What will happen to the estuarine-dependent menhaden schools as the coastal wetlands dissolve, and how can a robust, historic population of menhaden help mitigate the algae driven dead zone? While we don’t know the answer to these questions, it seems highly reasonable to being asking them more forcefully.
Delete Post

Here's another article and take close note that the Menhaden industry is regulated General Assembly ( politicians ). Every other species in Virginia is regulated by the Virginia Marine Resource Commission. Wonder why that is? I'll tell you why...$$$. Seems liike Omega Protein is a big contributor to some of the politicians there. Omega also spent something like $70,000 last year to lobbyists on their behalf. Take a look;

This was taken off another site;

Menhaden - an oily, bony baitfish - attracts more than stripers and bluefish. It attracts Virginia lawmakers by the score.

Omega Protein, which harvests menhaden for industrial purposes and processes them in Reedville, has carved out the privileged status of having its fishery in the Chesapeake Bay regulated by politicians to whom it gives thousands of dollars in donations each year.

The commercial exploitation of creatures in state waters is ordinarily controlled by the Virginia Marine Resource Commission. The VMRC regulates oysters, blue crabs, striped bass, bluefish, speckled trout and much, much more. What it doesn't regulate - by law - is menhaden, one of the largest commercial catches in Virginia waters. Instead, the fishery is the only one overseen by the General Assembly, where marine scientists are in short supply.

That's a problem. Menhaden are voracious filter feeders and once were common as pebbles in the Chesapeake Bay.

They cleaned the Bay's waters and fed all kinds of bigger fish.

Menhaden are considered so critical to the ecosystem of the East Coast and the food chain that author Bruce Franklin titled his book, "The Most Important Fish in the Sea." Allowing the company that profits from the fish, and its lawmakers, to decide how many Omega should catch is the equivalent of letting foxes decide how many chickens to keep in the henhouse.

Still, the General Assembly has refused to cede oversight of menhaden to VMRC. Omega is now subject to a compromise between state and federal regulators that allows the company to take 100,000 metric tons of menhaden a year in the Chesapeake. The company has come nowhere near that cap, a fact that environmentalists cite as proof of overfishing and company officials cite as proof of caution.

Most likely it's proof that the company - the only one working in Virginia - is catching all the menhaden it needs in state waters outside the Bay. According to the National Marine Fisheries Service, 160,357 metric tons of menhaden were landed in Virginia in 2008, most from state waters. Virginia and North Carolina are the only East Coast states that permit industrial menhaden fishing.

What isn't clear is whether the species can survive this onslaught. The Bay continues to be plagued by dead zones caused by too much of the algae the creatures can eat; there are signs the fish that prey on menhaden are suffering because their food supplies are dwindling.

Such uncertainty can be traced back to a faulty regime in which lawmakers were asked to regulate a complicated fishery in a complex ecosystem that even experts don't fully understand. Instead of the VMRC, which is supported by the best science and data available and meets every month, menhaden are regulated by lawmakers who meet on a tight two-month calendar and have a million other things to worry about.

Given the thousands of dollars Omega has distributed in Richmond over the years, that's perhaps no surprise. But it is wrong, it is dangerous for the Bay, and it should change.

Sen. Ralph Northam and Del. John Cosgrove have introduced legislation that would properly put menhaden regulation under the VMRC, where it would be governed by science and what's best for the Chesapeake and the fishery. The legislation is likely to face tough opposition in the House of Delegates, where Omega has been especially generous.

As before, their proposals to protect menhaden and the Bay will test the extent to which money serves as bait for lawmakers in Richmond.

FYI for the last 100 years or so almost 100% of the commercially sold oysters coming out of the Chessie were aquacultured oysters. In the last twenty years or so there have been massive dieoffs of both aquacultured and wild oysters in the bay due the very same algal blooms you claim they clean up. Also adult menhaden don't eat algae, they eat zooplankon, but don't let the fact get in the way of a good rant.

guess who else is in bed with Omega?
 

none other than the Bush Dynasty!!!
if i'm not mistaken, their world hq's
and processing plant is in Houston~~

go figure!! figure on BIG $$$$$ for both shylocks!!
:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: