Let's at least find the truth whatever it may be.......then worry about how to handle it!

Next year you should get your wish.At 'east from a statistical point of view. Right now they have a very good estimate of what the charter/party boats kill via the NMFS charter/party survey. Last year I think I was surveyed every month from May till oct.

Yeah Im sure it does... To register for NY as a charter Captain its up to $650! You think everybody will report honestly as to what they catch? Same like the NJ... People Will Not. Your not wieghing the fish in by a 3rd party, the numbers are whatever you feel like them being... Where is the $$$ Going? Im sure its to help the fishery right? Or to enforce violations like the local police are doing in a recession to raise more money??? Heck, My brother just got a letter from the State of NJ, he cashed out a small percentage of his 401k, went through an accountant, paid taxes... Last week he recieved a letter from the state that he didnt pay enough, owes $500 plus $1000 in late fees and interest. Says Statute of limitations does not apply even though its 5 years... Government needs more money is all... By any means, we fish, so We all Must be Loaded!!! Dont kid are selves that this saltwater license thing is a good thing, just another TAX! You should see the amount of people the IRS is Recruiting at the colleges! sorry to get off topic.... Somewhat...

That survey had lots of correction factors. Who knows what is real anymore.
I am talking about an unattainable Perfect scenario here.

Please, jmac, it is not what I stated. It is what the ASMFC technical committee stated in the link you provided. Whether it is right or not, I can't say. I'll bet a plug, however, the ASMFC choses to ignore the technical committee's report on this issue and decides not to adjust their estimated recreational catch statistics downward by 70%. Any takers?

Your referring to the telephone survey as currently randomly conducted?

Perfection is a far off dream in a single person's eyes (your perfect is not/may not be the same as my perfect) but there are methods of getting closer than what is practiced today for taking surveys. How much money you got to spend?

No survey.
Say you go to the canal and catch 4 fish.
You decide to keep the bleeder. You report one fish killed, thats all.
You either call it in to an automated service. ( press one for one fish two for two etc ). No weight or length, just a number of fish kept.
Or e-mail it at your convenience.
Simple, done once at the end of the year, just an easy way to get better data.

I agree...was joking.

For sure I'm in, especially since you blew me off on Costa Rica! :drool:

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

I'll make it up to you with a trip to Kona.

a bit beyond ASMFC.......tooo much leisure time.....tooo much $$$....tooo many Xperts....tooo much information-cell phones, websites, magazines, books, lectures/seminars...(oh yea, been to Costa Rica & Kona a number of times-many other exotic fishing locales...great fishing...understatement)...........hey try this..get a 10-gallon style cowboy hat...everyone in 30 words or less create a SB management plan...drop our slips into the hat..........shake stir........pull one out......this should settle the matter............:)

I don't need 30 words.

Recreational: One at 36"
Enforce EEZ
Crack down on poaching

10 words.
would make a huge difference.

:cheers:

How about 6 words:

Enforce EEZ
Stop Poaching
Stop Bycatch

My 30
 

Limit entry to MA commercial fishery. 6

Utilize a tag system to reduce MA black market. 9

Use GPS monitoring to keep comms out of MA EEZ. 10

5 words left....

Boycott Virginia and North Carolina !! :realmad:

see embedded comments, removed MA since all striper populations are inter-related.

Is a "all or nothing" fight winnable? Even necessary?
 

Can't common ground be found so that recs and commercials can fight together against the true villains in this striper war?

I see it unlikely that an all or nothing bill will get passed, so why not work WITH the commercials in MA to create a better situation for everyone in MA - all the while working on the truly dire issues our bass face?

Collaboration in MA-
Cut out the 'recreational commercials' by limiting entry to the FEW who do rely on bass for a significant portion of their income. Mr. Diodati's notion that an almost free and open fishery is good for his entire state in times of GPS, fishfinders, live wells, radar, etc. is shear folly. A 'historic' fishery can be maintained, all be it in such a manner that the resource isn't raped by the general public.

Implement a tag/record keeping system that makes it much harder for a black market to exist. Allocate funds to enforce poaching regs.

Use GPS to monitor the few commecials deemed to worthy of the privilege of fishing for and selling bass.

Reduce the quota for the fishery to reflect the exit of the recreational commercials. Do not allocate the remaining quota to any other user group.


MidAtlantic/Coastwide Crisis-
The recreational/charter kill must be reduced and structured to protect the prime brood stock females.

Indiscriminate commercial/poacher netting must be addressed to protect the prime brood stock females.

NMFS and the Coast Guard must step up enforcement of the rampant EEZ poaching that is decimating the prime brood stock females.

Prespawn and spawning grounds in both the Chesapeake and Hudson must be off limits to all forms of fishing in the months leading up to the spawning run.

Omega Protein must not be allowed to strip mine the menhaden stocks of the MidAtlantic region.

Commercial agriculture operations within the Chesapeake watershed must be forced to treat their animals' waste to the same standards as human waste so it does not lead to algae blooms and subsequent hypoxia in Chesapeake Bay. .

Farmers upstream of the Chesapeake must be controlled in the way they use fertilizers that lead to algae blooms and subsequent hypoxia in Chesapeake Bay.
-------------------------

Would there not be enough fish for a limited and tightly controlled rod and reel fishery to exist for families that have historically fished bass in MA IF recs and commercials fought side by side to defeat the true enemies of the striped bass?

Just some thoughts on how to win the war by avoiding a costly battle.

Woody,
I agree we all need to fight together not against eachother...but remember in this fishery the comms have never attacked the rec sector because a lot of the guys do both...it is always groups like SF trying to shutdown the comm fishery and then the yelling insues...I believe that if SF pooled its resource and fought the major problem like bait and poor ecological conditions they would be welcomed more on both sides, but they don't they just seem to attack one group and it causes fights amongst everyone.

I have said it before like the rest of you...fix the bait...fix the problem...secondly SF is a Maine based group trying to pull political weight in another state, that is not right, I don't care if they think the fish swims everywhere so they have a right to fight in any congressional setting. Could you imagine me going to Maine and trying to stop Maine lobstering through the Maine legistlature because my lobstering in mass had slowed down???? Think about it? I would be killed! Or if I wanted to change the gauge size in Me because I couldn't get enough Keepers in Ma....

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:)

"Cut out the 'recreational commercials' by limiting entry to the FEW who do rely on bass for a significant portion of their income"

This is my "favorite". I asked this before when one of the "anti commercial fisherman" crowd posted a similar line of "logic" and got no answer.....So WoodyCT...I'll ask you this time since you brought it up. How many fish in a million lb. quota if it's caught by 100 guys as opposed to 1,000 guys? Open book...and you're allowed to get the other "select few" who deem themselves worthy of making economic decisions for everyone else to help. :gh:

No brainer
 

If your family has historically been involved in commercial fishing and can demonstrate, through financial records, that the sale of striped bass has provided $X to your family over the last X years then you are considered to be dependent on the fishery and grandfathered a license.

Who is not a true commercial fisherman? All the weekend warriors out there with a $65 license to kill who are using the fish to pay for their expensive hobby are most certainly not.

As for the quota, let the true commercials who depend on bass for a significant % of their income catch as much of that 1 million pounds, or whatever is eventually determined to be a sustainable quota, as they can based on whatever bag limit and minimum-maximum size limits the managers determine best protects the spawning stock biomass. Once it is reached they are done on bass for the year.

"No brainer"
"As for the quota, let the true commercials who depend on bass for a significant % of their income catch as much of that 1 million pounds, or whatever is eventually determined to be a sustainable quota, as they can based on whatever bag limit and minimum-maximum size limits the managers determine best protects the spawning stock biomass. Once it is reached they are done on bass for the year."

So I guess it's not about the "fish" it's about who you decide should profit from the fishery?

It's about take. Cull out the licenses that aren't being used and there is less opportunity for abuse. We all know that there are people who utilize their commercial permit to keep more than 2 @ 28". I met a handful at the canal this past July.

Then, a reduced quota has less effect on the fishermen that are true commercial fishermen, as opposed to being utilized to fund a hobby and buy a new Tiagra 80.

well i hope you reported guys in June in the canal keeping more than two...cuz their license isn't good til July 12 in most cases!:uhuh:

om top of that there is no law against someone bringing home 30 to eat....during the season if they have a license and they are 34"

Bah. You're right - July.

I don't know a lot of details on the specific regs for comms. But I know I'd be pissed if I were a career fisherman and some weekend warrior is holding a license so that they can take extra fish home for their freezer.

I think this is the bloated portion of the quota which could be reduced without affecting the career fisherman and as such, a compromise is made - the quota is reduced and career fishermen aren't affected.

Are you sure about this? I thought that those fish caught commercially had to be sold to registered dealer. Clearly, if you get stopped on the water with 30 fish on board, you will claim you are commercial fishing with the intent of selling the catch to a registered dealer, if you take them home and put them in your freezer you are not commercial fishing. At some point the story changed. I think there was a guy busted in RI a couple years ago at his home because of this.

Next time you get stopped with 20 or 30 fish on board, tell the officer...I am just going to take these home to eat and see what he says.

Do you know how the quota is computed? They add up all the pounds of fish that were sold to the registered dealers every few days. If you took 30 fish home, then, they never made it to the dealer and therefore are not part of the quota. I am sure this is not legal because it defeats the entire quota purpose.

There are too many gray areas that can not be policed and ways to extend the season by avoiding the quota in this fishery. This is just one of them that the comm's exploit.

Regulations should be about the fish and not about the fishermen. Again, game fish status is a big step toward fish protection in that it takes the user groups out of it as well as the bickering of who has the right to kill them. Is it perfect, no, but it provides a good amount of protection while they figure out how many fish there and what is causing the problems with the decline in population disease control and destruction of their food sources and habitat which will take a number of years IMO.

"I don't know a lot of details on the specific regs for comms."
There's a revelation! And I see we're back to the all commercial bass guys are poaching crooks.......and I guess all rec's are lying BS'ers who make up little canal stories to suit their arguement.

NO
 

We're back to the 'revelation', to use your own words, that some folks aren't capable of seeing both sides of the issue, just their side, which leads to an 'all or nothing' mindset which will lead to nothing except another moratorium. Do you really think commercial bass fishing will survive a second ASMFC bass crash? Think about it.

Here we have several recreational guys who can see that this isn't a good vs. evil issue. It's an issue affecting many many people, all of which need to make concessions and work collaboratively to refine the system before the system screws them all.

Another no brainer.

You know you'e right Woody...some folks can't or won't see both sides of the issue, but as Sashamy stated above it sure isn't "us" on the attack. Just look at the posts on this subject and see who's calling who, poachers, crooks, greedy...then we've got the MSBA, DMF, etc. bashers.... and those opinions are derived from what? Years of education in marine fisheries, collection and study of data...no just a bunch of internet whining & IMO's. Frankly I prefer to let fisheries managers make "informed" decisions; not me...or you...or a collection of self appointed fisheries experts.

I mean on the specifics like what Sashamy said about being able to take fish home for personal use, requirements in caring for the catch and such. I've never stated that all commercial bass guys are poaching crooks, but I'd bet that everyone here knows some that are.

Those fisheries managers making "informed" decisions have already allowed the stocks to completely crash once.

To paraphrase something Makai said in an earlier post, "The regulators won't act until their hand is forced." By then, it'll be too late.