Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating
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Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/index.php)
-   StriperTalk! (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/forumdisplay.php?f=12)
-   -   1 @ 28" has been passed. (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=87078)

stripermaineiac 10-30-2014 06:03 PM
Wow Mike, T think you've set a record for the most rants on a single thread ever. do you never have any posetive point towards conservation in any way or is all just about how many you can kill to make a buck. Boy do your rants get anoying after a while.

5/0 10-30-2014 06:59 PM
Either way I'm still making Chowda out of them bastages!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Dick Durand 10-30-2014 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoMike (Post 1055401)
Obscene is in the eye of the beholder. :) Most of the guy fishing on those charters only do so once a year, so effectively they would be fishing under a two fish a year limit, or don't you think the average charter fisherman should have to the same rights as a shore or private boat fisherman?
With all due respect it really doesn't much matter that guys charter only once a year. The charters themselves are on the water daily with the next batch of "once a year" sportsmen.

big jay 10-30-2014 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeToole (Post 1055382)
The 1 fish at 28" or greater was quickly changed to include or any limit that meets the 25% reduction. This opens it up to many other options. As Patrick said now we have to watch the states. NH will be meeting to decide on the new limit on Nov 6. See below

The New Hampshire Fish and Game Department will hold a public hearing on proposed marine rules on November 6, 2014, at 7 p.m. at the Urban Forestry Center, 45 Elwyn Road in Portsmouth, N.H. The hearing is an opportunity to provide public comment on proposed changes to recreational bag and/or size limits for striped bass. These changes are being proposed to comply with measures in Addendum IV to Amendment 6 to the Interstate Fishery Management Plan for Atlantic Striped Bass.

Written comments on the new rules may be submitted by November 13, 2014. E-mail to comments@wildlife.nh.gov (please put "Comment on Marine Rules" in subject line); fax to (603) 271-1438; or mail to Executive Director, N.H. Fish and Game Department, 11 Hazen Drive, Concord, NH 03301.

From the original Add. IV, below are just some of the options a state may select.


1 at > 28” >31% reduction
1 at > 30” > 31% reduction
1 at >32” > 31% reduction
1 at 28-40” slot > 31% reduction
2 at >33” > 29% reduction
2 at 28-34” slot > 28% reduction
2 at (1 slot, 1 trophy) 1 fish 28-34” slot 1 fish 36” min >28% reduction
2 at (1 slot, 1 trophy) 1 fish 28-36” slot 1 fish 38” min >26% reduction
2 at (1 slot, 1 trophy) 1 fish 28-37” slot 1 fish 40” min >26% reduction

Great post - this has the potential to be a state by state clusterf*ck.

I understand the statistics in how it's justified, but for practical matters, "Conservational Equivalent" = F'ing mess.
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Cohenfishin 10-30-2014 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5/0 (Post 1055404)
Either way I'm still making Chowda out of them bastages!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
And I'm still eatin it!!!!'
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

bobber 10-30-2014 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripermaineiac (Post 1055403)
Wow Mike, T think you've set a record for the most rants on a single thread ever. do you never have any posetive point towards conservation in any way or is all just about how many you can kill to make a buck. Boy do your rants get anoying after a while.
right- I'm not sure what the motivation is to keep coming onto this site (and others) to continually antagonize people over their beliefs on strier fishing..... I'm not sure where ou're coming from at all!! It used to be a reasonable, well-contemplated discussion with you, but lately you seem to get some strange satisfaction by jabbing at folks who want to see the fishery conserved (rather than exploited)

piemma 10-31-2014 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^& Durand (Post 1055406)
With all due respect it really doesn't much matter that guys charter only once a year. The charters themselves are on the water daily with the next batch of "once a year" sportsmen.
And that is exactly the point. Great post #^&#^&#^&#^&. You beat me too it.
Mike is just trying to protect his lively-hood at the expense of the future striper fishery.

MakoMike 10-31-2014 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobber (Post 1055418)
right- I'm not sure what the motivation is to keep coming onto this site (and others) to continually antagonize people over their beliefs on strier fishing..... I'm not sure where ou're coming from at all!! It used to be a reasonable, well-contemplated discussion with you, but lately you seem to get some strange satisfaction by jabbing at folks who want to see the fishery conserved (rather than exploited)
I'm all in favor of conservation, in fact, as I pointed out a number of times the plan put forward by the ASMFC only has a slightly better than 50-50 chance of achieving the objective. I would have much preferred a 1 @ 32 limit which would have a much better chance of preventing overfishing. What I don't get is the hypocrisy of people cheering for the new limits while seeking to deny the same limits to other folks.

MakoMike 10-31-2014 08:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piemma (Post 1055420)
And that is exactly the point. Great post #^&#^&#^&#^&. You beat me too it.
Mike is just trying to protect his lively-hood at the expense of the future striper fishery.
FYI I have never chartered for striped bass, its not my specialty, and I haven't chartered at all for the past three years while I was taking care of my wife. Ypu guys just don't seem to get two basic points:

1- striped bass spawning success is totally dependent on the weather, something we have no control over. What the ASMFC is trying to do is keep the SSB high enough so that when we do get favorable weather conditions we will get an extremely large year class of fish, like the 2011 year class.

2- The best hope for a strong spawn is from the 2011 year class, and that year class will only be protected for about a year with these new rules.

MakoMike 10-31-2014 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^& Durand (Post 1055406)
With all due respect it really doesn't much matter that guys charter only once a year. The charters themselves are on the water daily with the next batch of "once a year" sportsmen.
The charterboats are like buses that only take the fishermen to the fishing grounds. Maybe we should restrict private boats to only fishing once a week? How about prohibiting fishing from the beach every other weekend?

MakoMike 10-31-2014 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripermaineiac (Post 1055403)
Wow Mike, T think you've set a record for the most rants on a single thread ever. do you never have any posetive point towards conservation in any way or is all just about how many you can kill to make a buck. Boy do your rants get anoying after a while.
Its also annoying to me how so many guys can ignore the basic life history of the fish we are trying to protect. Look back at my posts and you'll find I wanted new rules that were stricter than what was adopted.

For the record, I have never made one thin dime from striped bass.

piemma 10-31-2014 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoMike (Post 1055435)
FYI I have never chartered for striped bass, its not my specialty, and I haven't chartered at all for the past three years while I was taking care of my wife. Ypu guys just don't seem to get two basic points:

1- striped bass spawning success is totally dependent on the weather, something we have no control over. What the ASMFC is trying to do is keep the SSB high enough so that when we do get favorable weather conditions we will get an extremely large year class of fish, like the 2011 year class.

2- The best hope for a strong spawn is from the 2011 year class, and that year class will only be protected for about a year with these new rules.
OK, then I apologize. I did not know you didn't charter for Stripers.

I will agree with some reservations with Point #1.

Point #2 become somewhat academic as if we don't protect SOMETHING then we will be left with NOTHING. I understand that 1 @ 28 only protects, in theory, one year class but Mike, you have to start somewhere.

I don't believe that the new rules will do anything to stop the wanton slaughter of 40s and 50s that took place at the SW Ledge and The Block in general, this past Summer. Perhaps the 25% decrease in the comm quote will do something to mitigate this problem but, and I have been preaching this for years now, the only way the Striper problem gets solved permanently is with Game Fish Status.

That being said, I firmly believe that I will not see this in my lifetime.

rphud 10-31-2014 09:45 AM
Per Mike's point on 2011 year protection, maybe this needs to be like the fluke regs. Each year the legal length goes up to continue protection of that year population for spawning until things get back to where they need to be. Just a thought....not likely to happen me thinks.

zimmy 10-31-2014 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoMike (Post 1055401)
Obscene is in the eye of the beholder. :) Most of the guy fishing on those charters only do so once a year, so effectively they would be fishing under a two fish a year limit, or don't you think the average charter fisherman should have to the same rights as a shore or private boat fisherman?
There is nothing that says they can only fish on a charter. They can fish from shore or private boat. Whether it is a charter or the banks of the canal, it is obscene and the regulations need to reduce it. I don't care if the guys do so once a year. The boats go out twice a day and hit the same schools of big fish over and over until they are depleted, then move on to the next one.
http://www.virginiabeachstriperfishi...20-%20Copy.JPG

MAKAI 10-31-2014 11:21 AM
I'll guarantee that most of the fish in that picture ended up in a dumpster. Either soon after the picture or a year later tossed in the trash with freezer burn.
I've been on both sides of the fence on this issue for a long time. But taking into account the greed of the few that effect the pleasure of the many, I agree with Paul. Make it a gamefish and the problem is solved. Though not in my lifetime either.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

stripermaineiac 11-01-2014 10:08 AM
Sad thought isn't it MAKAI. We've spent yrs working to preserve what a few want to wipe out to pay for a cruise or a new boat or motor.

numbskull 11-01-2014 04:59 PM
Allowing charter boats to continue to kill two fish per customer is disgusting. Every recreational fisherman should be on equal footing.

You shouldn't be able to buy extra fish above your limit by hiring someone who has lobbied his ASMFC reps to allow you to kill more fish than the rest of us so he might profit.

PERIOD.

Nebe 11-01-2014 05:19 PM
Amen!
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ivanputski 11-01-2014 05:24 PM
Numbskull summed it up... I totally agree
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massbassman 11-01-2014 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by numbskull (Post 1055556)
Allowing charter boats to continue to kill two fish per customer is disgusting. Every recreational fisherman should be on equal footing.

You shouldn't be able to buy extra fish above your limit by hiring someone who has lobbied his ASMFC reps to allow you to kill more fish than the rest of us so he might profit.

PERIOD.
Very well said!!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

bobber 11-01-2014 08:54 PM
yes- this battle will go on in each and every state in the next few weeks, as individual states start to set their own specific regs/conservation equivalents..

we ALL need to keep putting the pressure on our states' commissioners so that they continue to understand that the public wants this fishery conserved and restored

ivanputski 11-02-2014 08:15 AM
I was so excited the evening 1@28" passed.... For about a 4 hours, until i realized the massive barn door the asmfc left open called "conservational equivalency".

I guess thats the way they were able to convince states to vote for 1 fish to make it look like they made a major change, while allowing states to option to continue the status quo under the guise of 25 percent reduction.
Or am i missing something still?
I guess i dont view 2 dead fish at 33" a reduction, regardless of which targeted year class it claims to protect... I thought protecting the entire bass population was the point, but it looks like they left the loophole for charters to keep slamming 2 big fish per person.
If im wrong, will someone smarter than me help me understand this?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Piscator 11-02-2014 09:11 AM
I listened to most of the call, from what I heard (and I could have heard wrong). Most of the New England States were for 1 @ 28", the motion for "equivelancy" was pushed by the Chesapeake Bay states and some other Southern States. In the end the motion passed (not all in favor) to include the equivalency part. Again, I could have heard wrong as I had this on in the background while I was working so someone might have more insights.

Also, to bring up my previous post, how can we say 25% reduction for rec when we don't even know what is being harvested by rec (its all a guess because there is no rec reporting system). Comm is straight forward...can anyone provide insights to this and how we can say reduction is 25% for rec on a number that we have no clue what it is?
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BatesBCheatin 11-02-2014 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanputski (Post 1055591)
I was so excited the evening 1@28" passed.... For about a 4 hours, until i realized the massive barn door the asmfc left open called "conservational equivalency".

I guess thats the way they were able to convince states to vote for 1 fish to make it look like they made a major change, while allowing states to option to continue the status quo under the guise of 25 percent reduction.
Or am i missing something still?
I guess i dont view 2 dead fish at 33" a reduction, regardless of which targeted year class it claims to protect... I thought protecting the entire bass population was the point, but it looks like they left the loophole for charters to keep slamming 2 big fish per person.
If im wrong, will someone smarter than me help me understand this?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Yes, exactly my sentiments.

Look at this alleged option: "2 at (1 slot, 1 trophy) 1 fish 28-34” slot 1 fish 36” min >28% reduction". Pfft what a #^&#^&#^&#^&ing joke.

JamesJet 11-03-2014 08:36 AM
I think 1@36 was a great idea, but in the end settled on 1 @ 28 being a good comprise for the general population to get a fish to take home. I was not aware of this comprimise, and still have a hard time making sense of it. Is it certain that a mature female bass breeds every year? Assuming that's how the math works, with allowing a few extra season s of growth we get a few extra years of spawning. My gut tells me they would in perfect conditions but we all know that's not the truth.
My question is: what can we do to be as effective as we were during the ramp up to the hearing? We should all be clear on next steps and make an effort to do what it takes within each of our states.
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JoeG@Breezy 11-03-2014 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piscator (Post 1055383)
Sorry if this was already answered but on the Rec side, how do they know what the reduction % impact is here when they don't even know what the rec harvest actually is? How can you say the reduction will be X % when you don't even know what that X % is.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
You are dead right, as in too many dead bass. They don't know how many legals are taken, how many shorts are taken by shore guys, can't even guess on the poachers and don't enforce against the locals doing the geographical cheating, as in the EEZ, other restricted areas,the guys with tags only using tags when enforcement is dockside, abuse of bonus tags in NJ, etc. It goes on...the science may be the best we have but it's extremely flawed. And to give the for hires or anyone else wiggle room is just ridiculous, and everyone knows it.

tysdad115 11-03-2014 03:50 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesJet (Post 1055672)
My question is: what can we do to be as effective as we were during the ramp up to the hearing? We should all be clear on next steps and make an effort to do what it takes within each of our states.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Find out the contacts in the state you live in, start contacting them all asap.It looks like the first meeting in MA to discuss the changes will be on November 6th in Wellesley. Another meeting scheduled for December 4th. I am trying to find out when public comments will be accepted.

JamesJet 11-03-2014 06:04 PM
10:30 AM is a no go for me with work. Ill look for an email address and send something this evening. Andy if you go, please make our voice heard.
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tysdad115 11-03-2014 06:42 PM
I emailed Paul Diodati, Chair of the board requesting info. I'll let you know the response.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

hq2 11-04-2014 06:08 PM
Well, it's obviously overdue by a few years (isn't everything always like that?); shoulda dropped the number in 2011. Won't affect me very much; haven't caught more than one keeper on a trip in 10 years, as I'm a daytime kayak and shore guy. Do think the commercial guys should keep two, but they need to raise the limit; not sure if 32 would be too low, as those guys routinely boat multiples over that. Maybe 34 or 36? Whatever, it won't happen anyway. Maybe just leave it at one; would keep 'em from taking home the bigger breeders anyway.


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