Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1066667)

you are pretty smart Buck, this is a great way of looking at it, our effect as individuals, personal responsibility....

the number used is actually 9% for mortality,

I'm sure that you'll agree that both private rec and for hires experience mortality and I'd argue it's much more difficult to effectively release fish from a boat than from shore....gaffs, live lining pogies, dropping eels, trolling umbrella rigs(multiple fish) all more popular with the boat crowd(they aren't throwing plugs or bucktails from a party boat and they don't gaff every fish from shore)

here's the part regarding the charter that you may or may not like or accept but the guy driving the boat is responsible for every fish caught or killed from his boat....the fact is that if he was not driving the boat none of those fish would be killed or caught, none of his clients would take a fish if he didn't drive them there and bait their hook on that trip and thus impact the population ....

I don't know what you think the average charter boat takes per year in terms of bass but can was use low numbers and say 4 of the maximum 6 clients get two fish, discount the mate and captain fish for now...that's 8 fish per trip, can we use 100 trips, had a "full time" captain say he did 100 last year and he said that was low due to weather. That's 800 fish (conservatively). If any of these numbers seem out of line I understand...I'm not an "expert"...just like to ask obvious questions. Can we also assume a mortality for released under size and over limit fish? Can we assume that they catch don't keep at least as many as they keep? Call the mortality 10% to keep the numbers easy...80 fish mortality...that's 880 fish very conservatively over the season that this one captain has overseen the taking of, or in my opinion"is responsible for" as I pointed out, they never would have been caught by those individuals without him driving the boat.

I'm going to use myself just to be as accurate as possible it obviously varies from one angler to another, I fish more than most average private/shore recs...(I love catching, filleting and grilling fish by the way), I'll include the bass that I kept last year as well as all of the bass that the people that I fished with last year in the totals and I'll overestimate regarding catch(that''s what fishermen do) and mortality...... although I do place more emphasis each year learning and improving catch techniques and release methods to improve this and many folks that I fish with do also.

So, I don't know exactly how many trips last year but if I use 100 bass landed that would be high. I didn't keep any bass but three friends that I fish with did. One was big and the other two were 28-30 inches, I can't remember the last time I fished with someone who took 2 bass. so that's 3 bass...plus mortality 10% that 10 fish...13 bass

so it would take me
and the folks that I fished with last year... approx. 68 years to remove the number of fish that the guy above did with his boat...

and here's the thing, those guys probably won't keep any next year...many private and shore recs ARE moving to other species (scup) and methods including freshwater, other sports even, I talk to them every day, many private/shore recs move in and out of the sport and are anything but consistent in their impact

if you want to compare on an individual basis, sure, there are more private and shore recs but the impact on an "individual" basis is not even close and I think most look it or compare on an individual basis

additionally, your average shore, private rec is far less likely to be locating and taking the large breeders with a few exceptions whereas they are targeted by the experienced and more accessible to boats in general....the impact mushrooms when you include experience, electronics, actual time on the water...a guided charter allows someone who would likely never impact the fishery on their own, to do it in ways that most other anglers either can't or won't...that to me is a special responsibility that the captain bears many times a season...

Originally Posted by iamskippy (Post 1066668)

Interesting spin Scott thanks for sharing.
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Originally Posted by buckman (Post 1066671)

I agree
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Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1066675)

happy to work with your numbers if you have any, it's a perspective, we all look at the fishery differently, that is obvious, you are quick to discount any perspective that disagrees with your's without providing much evidence...are you incapable of understanding how an average rec might look at or see this? :) I was told by a captain that if you aren't one, you don't know sh$#....is that how it works? can't figure out if I'm an "expert" or I "don't know sh%$" :rotf2:

Originally Posted by buckman (Post 1066676)

I understand how an average rec looks at this Scott . is what follows your "understanding"?

You either believe that allowing charterboats to keep 2 fish at 33 inches is not the equivalent of one at 28, it's not, you should reread what you just wroteand we can agree there will be more discarded fish from charterboats if it is one at 28, ( that one fish now becomes a trophy fish) . shame on them

Or you're just angry that somebody might get more fish than you. not angry, just concerned about the fish, not who gets what


Or you really believe that solving the perceived crisis for striped bass will come from limiting charterboats to one fish per angler . I believe that limiting all rec anglers to 1 bass now and into the future will help ensure and maintain a healthy population


And you either believe that one at 28 inches will not hurt charter boats or you simply don't give a #^&#^&#^&#^& I just have not seen any actual evidence that this is the case(the first part, if I didn't give a bleep I wouldn't bother)


BTW I saw mortality rates between 9% and 30% I picked low middle for my argument you chose as low as you could get I used the exact number the was used for the meeting the other night by the Fisheries Council ...9%
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Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1066677)

you can divide my numbers in half for the charter and double the others if it makes you feel better :btu: what's that, approx 30 years?...

all this keeping in mind that plenty of charters up and down the coast are doing fine and believe they will continue to do fine at 1 bass per client

Originally Posted by buckman (Post 1066678)

There are different types of charters that fish different waters with different techniques with different clientele and with different size boats. One of my hunting partners is a flyfishing guide. Believe me we don't think the same on this issue.
He only fishes on bluebird days , In shallow water and trailers his boat to the fish. Apples to oranges.
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Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1066679)

so different "clientele" should get different bag limits depending on what they "want" ? ohhh...that's right...immigration.... that is the gist of the argument that you've finally arrived at....there are some clients(if it's really them)...read the letters, who claim they will lose interest in the fishery during their occasional trips to the state if they can't kill two bass(or have the perception of the ability to do so I guess) and for that reason we should create an exception for the entire sector creating all sorts of havoc ....good thing we all don't think that way.....you are right...I don't give a #^&#^&#^&#^& about them....

Originally Posted by MAKAI (Post 1066692)

Question for you Buck ?
We're you fishing for bass in the early to mid 80's ?
Just curious.
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Originally Posted by MAKAI (Post 1066692)

Question for you Buck ?
We're you fishing for bass in the early to mid 80's ?
Just curious.
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Originally Posted by MAKAI (Post 1066696)

Eerily familiar isn't it Paul ?
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Originally Posted by buckman (Post 1066691)

You have no way of telling if the options that are on the table are going to create any havoc except for maybe here. ! Your emotions are getting the best of you��
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Originally Posted by buckman (Post 1066676)

there will be more discarded fish from charterboats if it is one at 28, ( that one fish now becomes a trophy fish) .
there will be more discarded fish from shore/private boats now that it is one at 28, ( that one fish now becomes a trophy fish) .
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Originally Posted by buckman (Post 1066751)

You win Scott. Your right . If charter boats get 2@33 the fisherie will cease to exist and all hell will break loose on the waters 😊 . It will be too confusing to the ever vigilant EPO's . Lmao
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Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1066754)

didn't say that...you are letting your emotions get the best of you

Originally Posted by ivanputski (Post 1066753)

This could all have been avoided if the asmfc had some balls, did their job, and said: 1@ 28" for everyone. No eceptions. " instead they sent the states home with a menu of voodoo math options to fight it out.
Thanks asmfc... You really did a great job!
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Originally Posted by MakoMike (Post 1066766)

Its not ASMFC's "job" to dictate to the states what they must or cannot do.

Originally Posted by buckman (Post 1066811)

Just for the record if Ma goes 1 then I agree RI has to go 1 too . The charter industry in my area will be toast anyways . Guess we can all put our permits in use and fish commercial to make up for lost revenue .
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Originally Posted by Nebe (Post 1066815)

What makes you so certain you are going to loose business ? What's the difference between 1 or 2 fish per person??? People pay for the sizzle not the steak ;)
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