:angel:

drive the beach in the day, find the holes, go back at night. needles mambos, bombers. any sandeel imitation.

your a nub

i learned that from your posts. :tooth: :whackin:

nub

i love you BM :grins:

That's what I say!
We need more of that.

but if one doesn't fish it regulary than whats the gripe ?

I understand what everyone means about not burning spots. That's not right and OTW burned a spot. So, for sure, that sucks but if you only go there one or so times a year than whats the problem. IF YOU have special spots to protect than I most certainly agree, one has to work to communicate and protect the privacy.

Still Bassmaster is a puffter
:topic:

You're right! More incentive for them to write about spots.
The mighty $$$$

Yep - Gene Bourque has got to be laughing and loving this. McKenna (who really is a nice guy and an helluva angler) gets to write an article that details things to the n'th degree, which pisses off the masses, and people flock to the stores that don't subscribe... They will have fewer maggies come back at the end of the month with no income, get 10% of their subscribers that let the maggie lapse to renew, and sign up another bunch of new people. All the while someone else will take the heat... Good for him and OTW but sucks for Steve. And I like OTW, but this is where I think the maggies are sacrificing access for profit and that is completely irresponsible.

I like Gene Bourque (I'm assuming its Gene in this case but I could VERY well be wrong). I respect him and think he's a nice guy but as an editor, he has just had an article published that will generate a lot of buzz where someone else will take the hit and the maggies will move a bit better on the shelf...

As for Steve - I doubt he knew what would come of this. He is not online and has little concept of what it is like on the 'net, I don't think he even owns a computer. But I would hate to see him made out unfairly as the bad guy in all of this as he is always helping out people, new and old to the sport. He is someone that does this, not for the coin, but to give a little back that he has earned over the years. He is always giving out help at the shop he works at, when you see him at the wall in spring, or when he runs across a newbie angler - he is always offering some advice. So please don't trash him personally - and keep in mind he can't defend himself here.

In my oprinion this article might not be the wisest choice for doing that, but I can tell you that I don't think it would be malicious... I have not read the article yet so I can't completely guage how it was but if it was as detailed and burning as it seems, then he was wrong for writing it. So argue the point but don't personally attack him on this, again - ARGUE the point.

I would also hate to see a lot of people that have chased spots, people, and reports throw Steve under the bus for what he wrote. I would also hate to see people that have praised his seminar and gladly soaked up that info or those that have seen him in the shop jump on him personally about it. Instead, jump on the culture that pushes this....

Dave - I don't think the paltry amount he got paid entered his thinking very much. It won't pay for gas for a month to fish those spots. It is more incentive for the Maggies to encourage it though. 'Course, this raises another question - how much is it worth in dollars to lose access to a spot that can't handle much public pressure? What is the price tag on a spot?

I think it was: Doesn't realize what he did.

Why did the editor let that get out? Hmmmmmm :hidin:

There has been a trend for spots, spots, spots, in maggies. I have talked to people that write for both maggies and they are encouraged to do spots - yes, that sells, but what about spots that can't handle the pressure? Is OTW or the Fisherman's profit more important than the loss of access?

I wasn't just refering to Steve, more about writers in general.
Can you put a price on a spot? I don't think any of us guys who are serious about this "Striper Catching sickness" could. Hell, most of us neglect our families to catch fricken fish :rotf3: How pathetic are we???

I am not so sure I agree w/your argument. I mean no one forced Steve (as far as I know) to write anything. If there is a beef, it (in my opinion) should be with him. Since as you say, it wasn't a big pay-day for Steve. It's not like he was blinded by the money or anything. Up to today I had nothing but praise for Steve. I agree w/all the good things that have been said about him. I can't help but think what his response would be if someone was so specific w/one of his spots. My guess is he would be pissed. Maybe not. Maybe he has so many spots that losing 1-2 is no big deal to him.

Maybe that gets to the root of the problem, or his decision. Perhaps he felt he was outing a few well known spots, no big deal. In his arsenal, they were trivial. To others, just getting started, they were our "Big Guns"

We are pretty pathetic sometimes. Maybe Canalman learned from his very detailed Wesport expose a couple years back, and maybe Steve will learn from this one. The maggies are loving the pot being stirred - free advertising... And you know, someone will just do it next month, and the month after, then someone else....

:hidin: I write for On the Water. I try to keep the specifics of "Spots" ( I hate that juvenile terminology) I prefer locations to an absolute minimum, Anyone can pick up the paper and read on Thursday evening or Friday evening here on Cape what is going on where. All the local tackle shops are disgorging info in large doses. The two major Cape papers that I read, the Times and the Enterprise have weekely report sections that spew the same. The difficult task in writing is where to draw the line. New writers, and I was the same ten years ago when I started, sometimes need direction from Editors as to what may be appropriate and what not may be. The editor gives his or her advice and the writer is usually free to take the counsel as given and either retract certain items or leave them in. In the case of the article in question it is very apparent to me that, in fact, if there was no spots specifically mentioned, there would be no article. The author in question had to have made a conscious decision to go ahead and keep the article as was written and if he was as in tune to the general consensus of the local fishing fraternity, he had to have known the eventual outcome. The editors have always made me aware of the risk and benefits of pieces I have submitted for publication. I have to mention a few locations in my monthly piece but as for the specifics, that's where I leave the readers to thier own investigative skills.
I like to stress technique rather than locations. If your technique is up to snuff the location stuff will fall into place with a simple recon of the beach before you at the time. I don't write for the money, God knows it ain't much and the accountant at tax time keeps telling me that it ain't worth the extra cost for him to complete my returns with it included. I don't do it to beat my chest either. When I enter a tackle shop I usally keep my mouth shut, ears open and a low profile ( tough at 6"6'). I come into buy and leave. I don't like being pumped for info, followed or badgered for invites to join me fishing I fish because I love to, it's that simple and write because I feel I can help people as people have helped me and others have helped them before my time. A modicum of sharing is healthy, disgorging all for the sake of seeing your name is not. KNow one remembers much of the good anymore but the bad, ah, that is never far from wagging tongues. :read:

So what is it about ........spots?
 

I admire they way most of you guys if not all of you about the way a response to this and other questions are posted. Many people here voice thier opinon and do so without flaming anyone, and I find that admirable.

I remember sitting in a bar in Edgartown about twenty years ago next to a friend of mine who owned a boat and with whom I fish with on that boat many times. I asked him a couple of times about shore fishing spots because I really do like that type of fishing more. He owned a house on the Vineyard for a long time. He became annoyed after awhile and said find them for yourself very abrubtly. No one told me where to fish and it to hard finding the good spots. This was the same guy who would take me out on his 27" dual inboard boat anywhere I wanted to go, but when it came to burning his on shore holes, nada man, no way.

If you don't have to wrok at finding the spots you wont repsect them. If someone turns you on to all your spots you'll be too quick to tell someone else. I found the spots by searching, paying attention and keeping my eyes open. Learning to recognize the same vehicles parked in the same place quite often leads to a found hole more often than not.

As far as OTW burning good spots. If those spots they burn are the only places some of you/us guys fish then some of us/you are not to adventerous. OTW is the only magazine I have ever read that caters to people continuously that live at the levels we we all dwell. I mean does SWS write articles designed to lure people who earn less the 100 large ever anymore. Not.

Oh he just promoted it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JohnR who did TC buy his cod/blackfish #'s from this year...

No one forced Steve to write it and he's not a starving writer, but he probably thought he was doing a good thing, or at least not realizing how bad it would be. I have not read it yet but I am preparing myself to be pissed at it (I'm sure the article will be great but that's the point - too good). And yes, I think Steve weas wrong in writing it if it is as detailed as some are suggesting. So, Steve should get some beef but I think people need to realize he may have effed up but he likely was not being malicious about it. What I am really saying is that we, as the angling community, need to be more responsible with access, and the commercial ordganizations that profit from the angling community - ESPECIALLY THE MEDIA - must be more responsible with the impact that results when they make a profit. So how much is access worth? What $200 an article?

i dont know why steve wrote the article.but i can tell you steve is a great person he has helped me and showed me some great spots and is always willing help anyone so lets go easy on him!

I think someone mentioned that Steve isn't on the Internet and probably doesn't own a computer. Come on!! What the heck is he writing his articles with? An IBM Selectric typewriter?

"I like to stress technique rather than locations. If your technique is up to snuff the location stuff will fall into place with a simple recon of the beach before you at the time."

I agree totally flap .

Steve probably did think he was doing good for others that dont know but lets see next months with his favorite spot with the eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one

thats fair !

or next month will have some internet hero killing another fishing hole .

SBASS - I have no idea what you are talking about. I no longer subscribe to the fisherman or OTW (though I debate but never get around to re-upping my OTW subscription). I think the lengths that the Fisherman goes through talking about spots and reports is to the detriment of the sport. I like and respect TC but I don't like how he puts up a lot of info on spots that are not his favorites, at the detriment of others. At the same time, The Fisherman is always reprinting articles from 3-5-10 years before when it comes to spots or methods and just throwing in new pictures. Sometimes you can tell what those articles are and sometimes not... Now this may have changed over the past year or so but I doubt it.

So you know, I am against spot specifics and have been so for some time. I think they are best handled from person to person and not widely publicized. My greatest reason for this fear is the continuing lack of access. I have gone to too many access issue meetings and read to much about lost spots to not give a damn about spots being reported in the media. That is why I tell people here to be very general about spots and not to be specific. to distribute the load and the pressure. There are more swinging sticks out there than ever before, more people owning property on the shoreline than ever before, and more outlets reporting and writing spots than ever before - this will come to a head sooner as opposed to later. This is why I say the CULTURE is the problem. It is just enhanced that the maggies are the ones that profit from it and most of us are too stupid or better, not caring about it to recognize the problem.

Flap - I respect you and your writing, I also respect your decisions on how you write and how you share. You are more of the example on what to do instead of how it is typically done. You also have a significant advantage over Steve when it comes to writing this. I think this is only his second article, the first being a How-To.

Oh - one more thing for everyone to digest, we have all seen many articles, several by people that are members here, on these spots like the River and the Island and the Channel. So don't attack Steve from doing what others like Joe and Dave and countless others, have done. Change the culture. Change the problem. Like the problem with a health bass population is not too much commercial fishing - that's the easy target - it is more than anything the lack of good bait in the entire ecosystem. Here the solution is not to attck Steve for an article (even wrong if it may have been), but that the culture that spots and access are the key to successful writing and profit instead of being protect for what they are, dwindling resources of access for the regular surfcaster. We are cutting are own feet off when we do this...

Probably, or he wrote it out and mailed it in, or he used a computer at work. Now I don't want to say I told you so but remember at the beginning of the year when we had the PMs going back and fro about spots - see what I mean??

You sure are windy today :bshake:

:hee: - well, two things caused that - spots - one of my pet peeves and I am home sick today with poops and pukes so I have more time on the soap box (I really do work bell to bell in my real job) - TMI, I know...

It takes a while to realize how damaging mass media spot talk can be. Lots of us learned back about 1997-1999. We spoke more freely then. Spots got overrun or access got shut down. We got burned and started saying less. I bet the same thing happens with Steve.


I would totally agree that Steve is a nice guy based on my limited exposure to him. I think he made a mistake to publish about spots. The guy has paid his dues and is known to be one of the best. If he wants to part with his knowledge , he's entitled to do so. I think when he gets a taste of just how big an impact a single magazine article can have , and factors that into his thinking about crowds and access , he may think twice about doing a spots article again and stick to the how to stuff.

The idea that its OK to talk about spots you no longer fish is somewhat risky. There are some who know ALL THE SPOTS. Get them pissed off enough by burning "their" spots and you may find "your" spots burned in the next issue.

Hey John, hope you feel beter, had that last weekend, never knew I could s**t/puke so much, it lasted 3 days!

I just got the magazine today and then saw all these posts so I just went and read the article.
I have debated the whole spot thing on s-b.com before, and I don't think its a big deal. I fish RI weekly and more often in the spring/fall. I fish well known, well publicized spots, always at night and almost always alone. I NEVER run into crowds. I avoid the bways and I fish spots I know produce quality and in some cases trophy fish. I think there are lots of fisherman out there, but when you starty factoring in nights, rough weather, cold etc. thousands dwindle down to tens. Then spread that out amoung the RI shore...
People will read this article, try the spots, get skunked and then go back to the spots they always fished.
Following "hot" spots is like stock market tips, once its on the street, its old news.
Is there really more to McKenna's article the Daignault has in Striper Hot Spots? I dont think so.

WOW....haven't got my new OTW yet....can't wait to see it for myself.

I might have a solution......Maybe some of you experts can write articles about some of my personal "hotspots".

Since I am pretty new to all of this and don't catch as much as the rest of you, perhaps my "hotspots" would lure the masses away from the real "hotspots".

Sort of like DIS-information.....

:laugha:

Not even sure if the magazines would know we were doing it? ie...every month release lots of "hotspots"....with maps and parking locations......some work....MOST don't.

Hmmmm......I may be onto something here.... :think:

a NEW magazine. :think:

Mine will have more spots than all the rest combined! Hell...if people are willing to spend TONS of their hard earned (or state provided) money on lottery tickets with the odds of hitting it BIG in the double digit millions-to-one, just imagine how many "fisherman" would buy my HOTSPOTS magazine....playing the odds of hitting a good fishing spot!

Need a nice looking cover-girl (err....person) too. Cause besides HOTSPOTS...the only other thing that sells magazines is...well...you know

sorry, just trying to get a laugh out of some of you on a tough subject.

As someone who has done a little writing as well, I took sometime and thought about this situation. I was peeved last night when I heard about it, but now that I've reflected I'm a bit calmer on it.
When I've written, I have always tried to keep my articles spot independent; I may have mentioned a general area or location, but never exact coordinates and always boat spots.
Am I happy with what was written? I havent seen it yet, so I dont know. I know steve only in passing, and know more OF him through the grapevine of chatty fishing partners. In QL, I've known him to be a helpful guy and always pretty nice.
I dont think there was malicious intent in this article, but again I havent read it yet, and yes I probably do fish alot of those spots at different times of the year, I'm not lucky enough to have private spots, but have always done OK with public spots, I learned to fish deeper in the night and generally I avoid crowds on the water. I've fished spots since I moved to SoCo from Aquidneck I 8 years ago, and probably dont know all the regulars other than recognizing a truck or slicker color..
Yes there will probably be a few more people there and yes 'old man' Iemma and I might bitch alittle more about the people, but with the hours we keep and the nights soon to be colder there will be less and less people out there anyways.
The only part of me that is peeved is the part of me that learned spots the old fashioned way; by fishing them, by asking a few questions to people in the know and through good old trial and error,, that part of me is a bit peeved that alot of people will have a much shallowed learning curve and alot more spots easily in their repertoire

Besides most of this will blow over this fall, any increased pressure will likely be back to normal in the spring or later fall, besides once the average joe going to a spot the first time leaves with a skunk, he probably wont come back...

Bryan

If you guys are not happy about it, then put your money where your mouths are, and write an email to Chris Meaghan the editor of On The Water:

cjm@onthewater.com

STOP BITCHING AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

first one has to figure out what to bitch about, hehe. 10,000 responses later....

my whole beach got burned this summer and still nobody showed up.



:crying: :crying: :crying:

Beach - you're the excpetion to the rule - you're lucky to have a relative handful of people plying the beach at night... And its probably going to get real good for you down there now....

first front this weekend. Suppossed to have a high in the 60's. GOT TO GET THESE WATER TEMPS DOWN ! I AM SCARED TO SEND ANYTHING OF VALUE OUT THERE FOR FEAR OF THE FREAKIN BLUES !

Bone's and albies STILL here.....




:yawn:

I don't post much here, but since I live and fish in SoCo I thought I'd throw my two cents in on this topic. I used to wonder why I'd show up at a spot to fish and find it suddenly packed with guys who weren't there the day before, especially since the fishing had been slow. I started to figure out that there was some kind of communication network that I wasn't paying attention to (internet and print) and spots were being "burned". At first I'd get pissed there was some guy on "my rock" and I'd bitch to myself about the Massachusetts plates on all the trucks . . . but I'd eventually get over myself and go find another place to fish (I hate crowds). Eventually it led me to fish in places that were difficult to get to, not impossible, just inconvenient and sometimes uncomfortable. Throw in some darkness, bad weather and big waves and I rarely even see other people when I'm out now. I don't think my new spots are any better than the old ones, but the fact that I'm not crossing lines with the "bucket & lantern" crowd and I'm putting in some extra effort to fish beyond the "easy" spots makes the whole experience more enjoyable to me. When I go out tonight it will be not too far from some well-known spots, but just far enough that I'll work up a good sweat from trudging through soft sand in my cheapo neoprene waders to get there, and I'll probably be soaked from the rain as well. I'll have to wade thirty yards out to "my rock" and hopefully I won't take any waves over my waders on the way out (the wade out is always a pain in the ass, but I don't feel like such a jerk for calling it "my" rock when I finally get out on it). Chances are there won't be another soul in sight, despite the fact that conditions should be excellent. If I happen to spot the silent red blink of a fellow striperman's headlamp I can be certain that he's not worried about his spot being burned either.

I haven't read the OTW article (although I'm tempted to now), but it doesn't surprise me. If you fish a public spot with reasonable access and half-way decent fishing it's only a matter of time before the spot is burned. I think the same spots have been getting burned over and over for years . . . but then people forget and move on the next "hot spot" and around it goes. I don't think the public spot burners do anyone a favor in the long run, including themselves, but it's an inevitable part of the scene.

The googans who chase spots they read about on the internet or in a magazine usually don't know what to do once they get there anyway. Just think about how long it takes to really understand fishing from a single rock at a single spot. It can take a whole season of fishing a particular spot before you realize what it takes to catch anything other than a lucky migratory schoolie. Mr. Googan is going to get discouraged soon after he realizes that the black stuff on the rocks is slippery and that standing around in soaking wet jeans gets pretty cold after a while. He wonders why he hasn't seen or caught a fish in the whole two hours he's been there, even though the sharpie magazine writer said they pull'em outta that spot hand over fist. Eventually he leaves in disgust, but not before throwing his box of mackerel chunks and empty beer cans in the bushes (he doesn't want to smell up his truck, after all). The final insult is the old guy who yells at him for pissing in his backyard on the way out. No way he's putting up with this SoCo crap again, he hears they're bangin' 'em on the Cape anyhow, maybe he'll head up there next weekend . . . :hihi:

:bshake:

cept me :rotf3:

Bill, Chris is the Publisher. Gene Bourque is the Editor. But yes I agree, spewing here isn't as good as sending off a letter or e-mail. They do cruise the sites checking on feedback as well though. They know what's being said, believe me. Hows the boat coming along?

Good post - the only thing that really scares me is the last couple sentences - and that's what it boils down to for me in most cases, usually some recent land owner that has little tolerence or respect for public access and its hard to blame the person when Joe Twelve Pack has crapped on the yard and left the empties and bait wrappers. Sure that is a generalization but not too far from the truth...

that was a sad day indeed


:bshake:

John, you and LB are both right and that's what I think most of the irate surf guys are pissed about. It's not that some nitwit in jeans with a white bucket and a 6 pack is going to catch all the fish, it's the traffic that will be created by the spot being published. Yeah, a lot of us know that there hasn't been any good fish at the A-frame in years. The point is that if 50 guys show up there then there will be problems with trash, parking, noise etc.
That's the biggest problem with spot burning. Personally, I know that they won't "catch all the fish". No one has for 1000 years. it's the public perception that will be created by the nitwits.

you should all go back and read the article again this time pay attention to what steve is telling u and maby just maby u to can start catching fish to. Stop whining and start takeing notes u might learn something from the man. slamming a man for trying to help YOU catch more fish by shareing what he knows is pretty sad .STOP FLAPPIN START FISHING

welcome to the board ghost. strong words for your first post don't you think? not knocking steve's fish-catching abilities but there are more than a few guys on this board who also put up pretty impressive numbers time and time again. they don't need any how-to or where-to knowledge, because they've earned it!