Bush fights Terrorists. Liberals fight Bush. My enemys enemy is my friend.

TRASH and the criminal investigative process.
 

Yup, trash at the curb that you put out for B.F.I. is where law enforcement gets most of thier PC (probable cause) for anything intrusive such as search warrant or wiretaps, and it moves onward and upward from there. Once its on the curb its anybodys business what is in the bag(s). You don't need reasonable suspicion, which is less than PC. No one needs anything for trash. Lets see what can be had from trash; phone records, credit card receipts, and on and on and on...So if anybody wants to spy on anybody you start at the curb and if something is amiss in the trash that will eventually get JOHN LAW into your life on a more personal scale.

This post is starting to bore me, Spence hasn't come out with anything novel in his last several post. Same old poo.........

SKIPN..this is only entertainment for these guys relax.

Not much more I can say unless someone brings up a counterpoint.

-spence

The Patriot act itself, if you read it you'll find the provision.

Commies Are Back In Vogue
 

It's disturbing that they have no idea how the gov't got that info.

I actually read it when it first was released...don't see anything now either...

Can you cite a specific provision?

I'd also note that I've not heard Gonzales cite the PA in his defense, but rather the broader war powers granted just after 9/11 to use force against terrorists.

-spence

Clinton's executive order 12949 and Carter's executive order U.S.C 1802-1804 both provided for the ability to execute searches and wiretap w/out a court order.

So, it is not just Bush that had this authority.

USC 1802 -1804
 

It specifically states that it can't be used against a US Citizen and it also has to be run by the Attorney General

a)(1) Notwithstanding any other law, the President, through the
Attorney General, may authorize electronic surveillance without a
court order under this subchapter to acquire foreign intelligence
information for periods of up to one year if the Attorney General
certifies in writing under oath that -
(A) the electronic surveillance is solely directed at -
(i) the acquisition of the contents of communications
transmitted by means of communications used exclusively between
or among foreign powers, as defined in section 1801(a)(1), (2),
or (3) of this title; or
(ii) the acquisition of technical intelligence, other than
the spoken communications of individuals, from property or
premises under the open and exclusive control of a foreign
power, as defined in section 1801(a)(1), (2), or (3) of this
title;

(B) there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance
will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United
States person is a party; and
(C) the proposed minimization procedures with respect to such
surveillance meet the definition of minimization procedures under
section 1801(h) of this title; and

if the Attorney General reports such minimization procedures and
any changes thereto to the House Permanent Select Committee on
Intelligence and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence at
least thirty days prior to their effective date, unless the
Attorney General determines immediate action is required and
notifies the committees immediately of such minimization procedures
and the reason for their becoming effective immediately.
(2) An electronic surveillance authorized by this subsection may
be conducted only in accordance with the Attorney General's
certification and the minimization procedures adopted by him. The
Attorney General shall assess compliance with such procedures and
shall report such assessments to the House Permanent Select
Committee on Intelligence and the Senate Select Committee on
Intelligence under the provisions of section 1808(a) of this title.
(3) The Attorney General shall immediately transmit under seal to
the court established under section 1803(a) of this title a copy of
his certification. Such certification shall be maintained under
security measures established by the Chief Justice with the
concurrence of the Attorney General, in consultation with the
Director of Central Intelligence, and shall remain sealed unless -
(A) an application for a court order with respect to the
surveillance is made under sections 1801(h)(4) and 1804 of this
title; or
(B) the certification is necessary to determine the legality of
the surveillance under section 1806(f) of this title.

(4) With respect to electronic surveillance authorized by this
subsection, the Attorney General may direct a specified
communication common carrier to -
(A) furnish all information, facilities, or technical
assistance necessary to accomplish the electronic surveillance in
such a manner as will protect its secrecy and produce a minimum
of interference with the services that such carrier is providing
its customers; and
(B) maintain under security procedures approved by the Attorney
General and the Director of Central Intelligence any records
concerning the surveillance or the aid furnished which such
carrier wishes to retain.

The Government shall compensate, at the prevailing rate, such
carrier for furnishing such aid.
(b) Applications for a court order under this subchapter are
authorized if the President has, by written authorization,
empowered the Attorney General to approve applications to the court
having jurisdiction under section 1803 of this title, and a judge
to whom an application is made may, notwithstanding any other law,
grant an order, in conformity with section 1805 of this title,
approving electronic surveillance of a foreign power or an agent of
a foreign power for the purpose of obtaining foreign intelligence
information, except that the court shall not have jurisdiction to
grant any order approving electronic surveillance directed solely
as described in paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) of this section
unless such surveillance may involve the acquisition of
communications of any United States person.

Executive Order 12949
 

Once again I do not see anything that lists US Citizens and this only applies to Physical Searches

EXECUTIVE ORDER 12949

- - - - - - -
FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE PHYSICAL SEARCHES


By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution
and the laws of the United States, including sections 302 and 303 of the
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 ("Act") (50 U.S.C. 1801,
et seq.), as amended by Public Law 103- 359, and in order to provide for
the authorization of physical searches for foreign intelligence purposes
as set forth in the Act, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Pursuant to section 302(a)(1) of the Act, the
Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a
court order, to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of
up to one year, if the Attorney General makes the certifications
required by that section.

Sec. 2. Pursuant to section 302(b) of the Act, the Attorney
General is authorized to approve applications to the Foreign
Intelligence Surveillance Court under section 303 of the Act to obtain
orders for physical searches for the purpose of collecting foreign
intelligence information.

Sec. 3. Pursuant to section 303(a)(7) of the Act, the following
officials, each of whom is employed in the area of national security or
defense, is designated to make the certifications required by section
303(a)(7) of the Act in support of applications to conduct physical
searches:

(a) Secretary of State;

(b) Secretary of Defense;

(c) Director of Central Intelligence;

(d) Director of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation;

(e) Deputy Secretary of State;

(f) Deputy Secretary of Defense; and

(g) Deputy Director of Central Intelligence.

None of the above officials, nor anyone officially acting in that
capacity, may exercise the authority to make the above certifications,
unless that official has been appointed by the President, by and with
the advice and consent of the Senate.


WILLIAM J. CLINTON


THE WHITE HOUSE,
February 9, 1995.

Agreed. That is what Bush has been saying from the beginning. Non-US Citizens, International calls, etc.

This whole thread started because He admitted to Authorizing wiretaps on US Citizens. That's why we have all been arguing.....:chatter

Look at the links posted in the 1st entry of the thread.

I read the first and it indicated both American and Non both being on American soil. The threads title is "America Spying on Terrorists". That is what I was replying to.

I wasn't looking at this as an arguement. I thought it was a conversation. My mistake.

No no its not really an argument....bad choice of words on my part. It's what we have been "debating" about :chatter :hihi: