From where I sit , I see a lot of folks coming here for a better life. They may be illegal, But our Government gives a nod and wink to Big Business whenever their legality comes up. Why? Because they compete with Legal Labor. They are our competition.They keep our wages in check. I don't hate them for it , they're taking what they can get. I AM pissed at out Government for allowing this to happen to keep us devided among our selves. The middle working class is disappearing in this Country and we're rapidly turning into Wealthy/Peasants. No Middle Class. We work harder and harder and get less and less. Because our illegal competition does without complaint. For my two cents, we all shoulda been in the streets today. We all deserve better.

You hit the nail on the head Fred. (a little carpenter humor) Soon it will be the "HAVES" and the "HAVE NOTS". And guess where the average blue collar guy will be. :( Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against anyone here legally. My mothers side of the family came here in 1634. And my fathers side came here in the 1800s. We are all of immigrant descent wether it be 2 years ago or 300 years ago. The big difference is that they stayed and made this home. They didn't just come here to make a bunch of "duckets" and skedaddle home to live more comfortably than their neighbors.

Why do some people refuse to use the word illegal when talking about criminals who have purposely defied and violated our immigration laws by entering our country ILLEGALY? Its a slap in the face to those who have entered our country through the rightful process and "contribute" in an above board manner.

Stripersnipr, this is how they devide us. The law says that they are illegal. Those in power do absolutely nothing about it and as a matter of fact they encourage it back handedly. We legals are outraged that they are here not that we're getting screwed. We're being PLAYED against one another. All they want is a chance. Just a shot at a better life. And our politicians(whores) are selling themselves , the illegals , and us.

Big Deal..... My kid FINALLY got to use the NEW Lawnmower......

How about this as law ?

Only professionals or investors can immigrate to the country , no unskilled laborers will be allowed in .
Immigrants may purchase property but locations and availability are limited .Ocean front property is restricted to citizens born in the country.
Immigrants cannot vote or be elected to any public office.
Immigrants cannot collect any type of Government assistance.
Immigrants cannot protest Government policies or the President.
Immigrants cannot display the flag of a foreign country .
Any Immigrant who enters the country illegally will be imprisoned .


This is the law in Mexico .:smash:

And this is the law for LEGAL immigrants .

Dirtiest thing ever said on TV "Gee Ward....you were awfully hard on the Beaver last night" :hihi:

So leave America if you feel so guilty about it? The issue at hand has nothing to do with native americans or whatever. The issue at hand is people breaking the current laws of the US, and sticking it in the ass of imigrants who do it the legal way.

If your standing at the checkout at Stop&Shop, and 15 people with full shopping carts cut in front of you and look back and laugh at you becuase they just screwed you over you'd be pissed too. This is excactlly what the Illegals are doing, they are cutting in front of the line and flipping you off as they do it. And they could care less becuase people like you and others encourage them to cut in line and %$%$%$%$ over the good imigrants doing it the right way. Its dissgraceful that people condone this behavior.

Right on Bro :kewl: They dont use the ILLEGAL word becuase it doesnt fit thier agenda. They know damn well what this debate is about, but they try an lump all imigrants in with the Illegals. Anyone who talks like you stated is a disshonest liar. People see right through thier lies thankfully. Well most of us do anyway....

Why don't we deport all the American citizens (also criminals) who employ illegal immigrants??

because
 

since 9-11-01 .............when security supposedly got tighter only 3 companies were fined for hiring illegal aliens...in the USA

that was down from before 9-11 and essentially the government
is just looking the other way....

Well, they are American citizens so i dont know where you can deport them too. They should be fined though. This is a totaly seperate issue than what we've been discussing. However, employers couldn't hire illigals if the Illegals were'nt here here in the first place!

Its still mind boggling how people avoid this issue and change the subject to avoid the LEGAL vs. ILLEGAL debate. Illegalls cut in front of the line and knowone cares? WTF?? Hell, next time i'm at Disneyworld i'm going right to the front of all the lines, screw all the people that are in front of me. I'm doing it MY way and they can all kiss my ass. And i'm hoping all you guys here who defend the Illegals for cutting in line will defend me for cutting in also. Sound kinda familar doesnt it?

Who's defending illegals cutting in line?

-spence

What kind of nonsense is that....."Gee your honor, I wouldn't have robbed that liqour store if it wasn't there in the 1st Place"

That isn't an excuse for Illegal Hiring Practices...They're breaking the law just as much as the Illegal Immigrants are....even worse.

At least The ones getting hired are doing so to put food on the table....the ones doing the hiring are doing so to take advantage of them and the system.

How about a little jail time to the people doing the hiring instead of a fine....Lets see I saved $20 000 this year by having this Mexican woman clean my house but they just fined me $5,000.....i'm still up $15,000.......not bad

I'm not using that as a defense for employers, im saying of we had no illegals they could'nt hire them. In other words get rid of the Illegals. Did you you not just read where i said employers should be punished???

Illegals should be punished, as should people who hire them knowing they are hiring illigals. Its pretty simple

You dont think IF and WHEN they get amnest they will come looking for that 7 BILLION $$$$ which was paid into their BOGUS accts under bogus ss#s. Im thinking a first year ambulance chaser could win that case. Nice little nest egg for them I would say. "unclaimed $" that would have to be paid back.
I pay$400/mo for medical insurance(and am grateful to have it).. $30 co pay every time I visit my doctor. IF i get really sick, at some point Im sure I would be cutoff, maybe lose my house and everything else too.
These people walk,crawl,slither into ANY hospital and get free medical care, 24/7, its like a 7/11 to them. and thats not supposed to PI$$ me off ??

not to mention tdf
 

they (the illegals) have been ripped off by many companies (patrons) who call imigration "themselves" just before they have to pay them....so they wont have to pay them at all...:mad:

i've seen it first hand while living in california so close to the border.

hell, i've purposely made "the migra" chase me so they won't catch the other guys...or else i'd get stuck unloading the whole damn truck load of fertilizer by myself when i worked at a golf course there.

Actually Tin, the IRS allows illegals to pay Social Security taxes legally using a special form.

-spence

Sure sounds like alot of you are, even you are trying to compare Illegals hopping fences on the border to me getting a speeding ticket. Wich is obsurd by the way. Someone went to the we slaughtered native americans card, so all of us should leave the country. I see alot of people avoiding the term Illegal and lumping them in with legal immigrants. lots of excuses and people showing sympathy for people who cheat the system and spit on our laws. I just dont get it :huh:

No Skippy, what some are doing is presenting nuances of the real situation. It might be easy to take a knee-jerk approach and just shout for mass deportation, but that's not going to lead to any meaningful solutions...

-spence

Skip:
I made a point a while back in the thread, and wasnt calling anyone out...
BUT unless you KNOW for certain you're ancestors were Native American or came to America Legally, then you really dont have a leg to stand on...
Maybe everyone against illegal immigrants and is pro-deporting them can vouch for their ancestry, I'm not sure I can...

My take on this is that if you want to close to borders, arm those wack job Minutemen, build a fence, whatever, go for it. I see two MAJOR hurdles.
1. Show me the plan for gaurding the ENTIRE border to keep illegals out and enforce the law on those that sneak in anyways I dont think it is possible.
2. Show me a plan for deporting or jailing 11Million illegals who are already here and breaking the law...

You show me how these things will/can be accomplished without erupting into a civil war,
and maybe this would work... I see nothing but catastrophy if this goes through...

The coast guard get deployed in full force to round up, and deliver all illegals to Mexico, then they are assigned to gaurd the border.

I can vouch for my legal status, my ancestors have only been here a couple generations.

in order to have civil war break out, your CITIZENS have to arm themselves and fight the government. THis will not happen, no way no how.

QUOTE=ScottCThe coast guard get deployed in full force to round up, and deliver all illegals to Mexico, then they are assigned to gaurd the border.


The CG's are already underfunded and overstretched... would need to double their budget and fleet. Also, ever see a CG stand in the Arizona desert in August?

"I can vouch for my legal status, my ancestors have only been here a couple generations."

Scott, I wasnt calling anyone out, but you have a leg to stand on in the argument then....

"in order to have civil war break out, your CITIZENS have to arm themselves and fight the government. THis will not happen, no way no how"

I'm not advocating that, I'm saying they try deporting 11Mil people and violence of some kind probably will errupt.....

Also , we declare war on mexico, but do not invade, this way when they try to jump the border we can shoot them as invaders instead of have to round them up again. You do that a few times and they will stop coming.

Stand where? We build them nice outposts with AC, this is the USA after all:kewl: and we need to just pull our sorry aasses out od Iraq and have our guys defend somthing worth defending, out own borders

That should get rid of all of the Illegals......

And the Bonus is the Price of Heroin and Cocaine will be WAY down as the Supply should Go WAY up because the Coast Guard is busy doing the INS's Job instead of patroling the Waters like they were intended to do. So it will be open season for the Drug Traffickers

Really huh? So them fighting over in iraq is ok though? Our waters are voulnerable right now? All the drug traffickers are running rampid right now right?

Yeah right.

You take the guys out of Iraq, and put them on our southern border, This is not hard to understand.

Taske every man out of Iraq, and put them on our border, you get them home, and basicly out of harms way. And clean up our imigration problem.

Ok, now pick that apart with pathetically weak arguments hahahah,

I'm confused.. take the CG's out of Iraq or the army out of Iraq to defend the border???

There are ~1951 miles of border between Mexico and the US... thats alot of gaurding.... show me a plan (the gov't) that can accomplish this.. I say it is BS.... cant be done.
I'm ignoring 5000 miles shared with Canada, so they sneak into canada and then sneak across there....

Bryan, he's just spouting nonsense to string you along :wavey:

-spence

HAHAHA, your redicluous comments don't even belong in this argument.

they'd all be back in a week!
 

if you could wave a magic wand today...

and they were all gone... all back in mexico........

there is no stopping that force... a fence?
is a JOKE

there is only...... changing the law....

and Scot : going to war with mexico
would start a civil war here...
like we've never seen before...

No doubt... however this is typical...

If I were to apply for research money saying I'm going to do this without a how, when etc... it would get laughed at...
Congress can say 11Million people will get deported and our borders secured... but there is no How or when..... go figure....

Ofcourse you say it is BS, your commited to failure, you will never understand how it can be done.

We defend it the same way we invade countries. With military force, sure this sounds extreme . Every war we have ever fought sounded extreme.

Oh come now, Scott has plenty of "How".

I'm sure his next idea will be to hire "Snake Plissken" :D

-spence

Lets here some of your ideas smart guy, so far you have made a fool out of yourself and the only time anyone acknowledges you is when you throw out childish comments like this one.

Umm.....NO...But thats a different thread and a different argument.

I would love to hear how the Coast Guard is going to patrol the borders in their cutters though...that should be interesting.

Another redicluous comment, and it is not a different thread, I used the war specifically bacause you said out coasts would be unguarded, and I proved it is not due to them being is iraq already, very simple.

Cutters on land huh hahahaha.

I just realized I am aruging with delusional people!

I am done

I've made a fool out of myself? Oh please...:doh:

So far you've suggested we replace 11 million people with 2 million inmates, use the US Military for a domestic assult ala Afghanistan and Iraq and turn the border into a carnival shooting gallery.

I'd say the Snake Plissken comment was right in line, and damn funny to boot :hihi:

-spence