That would rely on there being no separation of church and state which is something the right preaches. :lurk:

It amazes me the number of union/ex-union people who are supporting a vehemently anti-union party.

Like I said before I am not registered Dem or Rep. I don't believe in falling in line and following a particular party. But Obama is out of his mind with some of the things he wants. I don't want socialism and would like to keep my guns. Obama strikes out in 2 areas so he doesn't get my vote.

Mac, I think you're a nice guy, you love fishing, I love fishing, we've had a great time BS'ing away, but for christ sake do some fact checking.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008_Politico.htm

Q: You said recently, "I have no intention of taking away folks' guns." But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you've said that it's constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?

A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions.

Now will you PLEASE stop preaching on the whole gun thing? Its a BS fabrication by the Michigan Militia wackjobs and the conservatives to scare you. Its politics.

HE is not going to take away your guns. Your TOWN will. And given where you live I really REALLY doubt that will happen.

And socialism? YOU LIVE IN THE PEOPLE'S COMMONWEALTH! HEALTH CARE IS MANDATORY! SOCIALIST PROGRAM!

Actually it isn't about the michigan militia. Obama has stated no one should be allowed to carry concealed. He wants to pass this as a federal law. Right now it is up to each individual state to decide. Not the whim of 1 man...

He wants to ban the manufacture, sale and posession of handguns.

Ban certain forms of ammunition used in hunting and sport shooting.

Increase federal taxes on weapons and ammunition by 500%. Thus making it to expensive for the "common man"

Expand the Clinton semi-auto ban (AWB) to include semi auto handguns and any weapon capable of holding over 5 rounds.

mandate a government license to purchase a firearm.

He is for micro stamping ammunition. (which is proven to not work)

Restore voting rights to a few million criminals who were convicted of using a gun to commit a violent crime.

Ban the use of firearms for home defense. (Illinois is like that now) CCW permits are non existant.

He also wants to appoint toSupreme Court, justices who think like he does.



Heller was just tried by the Supreme Court . The justices affirmed that 2A is an individual right. If Obama gets in he can appoint new justices and try to overturn the Heller decision.


I have news for ya. Creating new gun laws will not solve anything. States need to start enforcing the ones on the books now. There is an old adage that is very true; IF GUNS ARE OUTLAWED, ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE GUNS.




And socialism, REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH is one of the main things in this flawed government system. Where will he stop after taking profits from the oil companies ? maybe your 401K ???

According to who? Where is all this coming from? The NRA? Do they back any of this up with solid facts and quotes? Of course not! That wouldn't be seedy!
C'mon man, I just cited a direct quote of what he said. Back up your claims.

I think there's WAY bigger things to fight right now than Heller, and he knows that.

The adage is a lie, only those with connections will have guns, not outlaws. Look what happened to them in the wild west, they got dead.

You have a problem with him going after OPEC? That shocks me.

Social Security is already a wreck, hell, might as well screw up 401k's.

Take a long look at your avatar, McCain would love to see that burn.

My reality is this, we're screwed right now. Right wing presidents aren't doing it. We're in an epic debt. I'm looking forward, not at now.

The same things were said about Clinton as far as guns yet nothing ever actually happened, he didn't take away your guns, he passed a bunk republican created bill that made all the anti-gun people feel better about themselves and life went on as normal.

I'm tired of the same war monger idiots running the show. I don't want to think of more of this crap starting up and my friends or family or eventual children having to be drafted. I don't want to see people in office who couldn't give a damn about the environment and would rather pander to some multinational mining company than save the people they claim to have as 'family'.

2 more grunts died and 3 more were injured the other day. For what?

There comes a point where enough is enough.

And had McCain been president HE would have been smart enough NOT to go into Iraq. Many were duped into the WMD bit (sh t, I believed it too). Bush was (is) an IDIOT. ID TEN T to the core. BUT we (the US) broke it and we (the US) have to fix it. The ramifications are too high not to try, the ramifications are too high to FAIL. To pull the troops home before its time is a disservice to these guy - AS BAD AS GOING IN THE FIRST PLACE! Or the colossally effing up of L Paul Bremmer, Rummy, and Franks and their underlings.

Bush junior screwed up MAJOR, at length and repeated but we CAN'T walk away from there too early of the bleep really hits the fan. I would love to see Bush impeached, I'm still likely going to vote for McCain. Just wish it was 8 years ago.

Yet, time and time again I hear the extreme politico left state that McCain is going to repeat the last 8 years and that it is just more of the same. Personally, I do not believe that and I find the rhetoric coming from the left as distasteful as what comes from the right, more extreme as you get to the extreme.

Barry Obama ain't my guy. Biden I might have voted for. McCain I like and the added bonus is that with a DEM controlled congress and a Republican controlled Executive, neither the Tight Arsed Uber Conservative Religious Right can screw up my country nor the whacko-glue sniffin, Code Pink Marching Recreate 60Friekin'8 can SERIOUSLY screw up my country.

If McCain gets elected, hopefully he learned from the past and won't continue to drag the crap over there out.

But well played John. Thank you for a reasonable response.

The current problem with 'finishing' the job over there is radical groups are ALWAYS going to be an issue. Its a way of life. They don't cry and complain about things on the internet over there, they organize and (try) to fight back whether good or bad.

Look at the incident with the lawyers in Pakistan. A bunch of guys in suits and ties rioting! Hell, a lawyer here gets a smudge on his shirt and he fires his secretary then screams at his dry cleaner to make sure the stain comes out or he's never bringing his stuff there ever again! Hell I wonder how many underpaid college kids have been screamed at by people in suits because they forgot the splenda.

Its a different way of life and selling them on "democracy" is like trying to sell a snowmaker to eskimos.

But we've gotten off track. ;)

For you BSG fans:

http://www.tighroslin.com/

I'll get back to you later this afternoon. Have to get ready for work.

As far as your answers being direct quotes; did you hear him say these things or are you reading them ?

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Bara...un_Control.htm

Here's a little reading for you. But you will spin it around and refute it.

You just proved you didn't read any of it.

Look, you all said the same about Clinton.
Did he take away all your guns? Nope.
Is the left the big bad boogeyman who's gonna round up all your guns? Obviously not.
Is it typical grasping for straws? Yes.

Let me remind you, it was a REPUBLICAN who created the Brady Bill. It passed THE SENATE AND HOUSE. No one person magically made it go through. Obama can't get into office then magically take away your guns.

Obama's quote has straddled the issue. He wants limited control but understands
a persons right to carry. BS. I bet when a vote on gun issues came up he voted "present" not "for" or "against". He's now saying that running a campaign staff and budget gives him more experience then she has running a state with 77,000 employees and over a billion dollars in revenue a month. He's reaching now.

Don't forget flip flopping on projects depending on what is favorable with the party, not the people.

Claiming to be "for the comms" yet screwing them with supporting the pebble mine.

Trying to stop any and all fish farming.

Being the postergirl for hypocrisy when it comes to "family values".

And yet again, the president's single vote can't take away your guns. You don't need to build the bunker in your front yard yet.

Id like to congratulate McCain for this brilliant choice of VP. In typical republican fashion, they have created a huge smoke screen which will distract the American people from the important issues- energy, economy and domestic/foreign policies. Now most Americans will be scratching their heads over the choice of Palin all the way to the voting box... bravo Mr Senator.. Bravo.

The original maverick...:hihi:

That is exactly why I've lost a lot of faith in McCain over this pick.

McCain has always been a conservative who's not pushed the social button very hard. This pick is clearly a signal that the base was not excited by him, so they made a strategic decision to make this election about the "culture wars" rather than the real issues, because they were afraid they couldn't win.

Ultimately this may come back to haunt.

-spence

Actually I did read it, did you? It reaffirms a lot of what I typed out above. Who is he to say who can or cannot carry concealed ? You read it how you want and I'll read it the way I want. My interpretation is what matters to me.


As far as registration, which he is for; that is the first step towards confiscation. He is very adamant about gun control. If you don't think so, you are looking through blinders.


I also like the way you try to twist things around when someone disagrees with you on a political issue. I can take the little diggers. But I will never vote for OBAMA.:fishslap:

It is actually kind of sad when the democratic party wants to nominate a JUNIOR SENATOR for the highest political office in out country. Even tough I don't like Hillary either, she would have made a better potential president.

If you think he can then you don't understand gun laws at all or how bills and laws get passed.

Even if its wrong?

Are you REALLY sure you aren't a member michigan militia?

Why is it sad?
Because of what Fox tells you?

Actually MAC, Hillary Clinton is a JUNIOR SENATOR as well.

You forgot about Chuck Schumer :lasso:

-spence

yes she is. BUT she did spend 8 years in the White House........

Pushing failed health care reform and picking out new drapes???

Don't get me wrong, I don't really like her although I do think she's a solid Senator. But her experience as first lady isn't all that important.

Does Barbara or Laura Bush have street cred for their time in da house? :eek5:

-spence

Ok likwid, you won. I don't know anything.:alien: I do like how you go into attack mode when someone disagrees with you though.

I may not be the brightest bulb but am far from stupid. Some of us may not have your political acumen.

Just a question though. Did you ever serve ? When I enlisted I turned down OCS. It wasn't how I wanted to serve.

Now on gun laws; I do understand them and how they come to be law.

I feel and believe Obama would do what he wanted. And as far him not being able to, think again. I wouln't be surprised to see him attempt "executive privelage" on certain matters. I don't mean gun laws either.

Like I said, I'm done argueing. You win.

No, but neither does Obama as far as I am concerned.

Yawn. The old "did you serve" argument.

Nope, I worked for a couple different corporations working on things that are way above your pay grade.

So you think somehow Obama is going to declare martial law?

[QUOTE=likwid;617187]Yawn. The old "did you serve" argument.

Nope, I worked for a couple different corporations working on things that are way above your pay grade.




Mac, you just won. Once again liberal elitism has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Liberal elitism because I worked on things that today are saving soldiers lives? Ok. :rotf3:

Here ya go twisting words again.

I guess the did you serve question was unwarrented.

:yawn::think: I had a thought in mind and you just confirmed it with your way above your pay grade statement.

You are just like Obama. He is also an elitist.

Is it anything like the thought of irony of your avatar? :rotf2:

Just remember, if it wasn't for a bunch of liberal d*** sucks who liked computers and realized there was good money to be made in the defense sector you people would still be beating each other over the head with sticks and rocks.

What is the "you people" analogy? Are you on a higher plain ?

And on the avatar; I have never been one to just "get in line". In other words I don't consider myself to be one of the "sheep".

BAAAAAH

Yeah, I too would like a little clarification on the "You People" comment.

pretty %$%$%$%$ty attitude if you ask me....

I dunno TDF, are you one to throw around the "liberal elitist" line like its some new snappy line that actually means anything?

But hell, its not like the DOD gives contracts to Americans anymore.
I'm kinda shocked there's no outrage that FN Herstal (a Belgian company) owns Browning and Winchester.

Lets not forget the replacement for the M16 is an FN firearm. :rotf2:

No

I also certainly don't treat vets like they are inferior because of the fact they were in the military....which is how I read your statement and it definitely rubbed me the wrong way.

And what about using it as an attack? Is that legit? "Oh well I was a vet so obviously you're some draft dodging fgt! har har har!"

A force recon marine, army ranger (5 tours in nam), and an ex airforce test pilot told me I'd be better off getting scholarships, going to college and making bombs. Would you like to question their advice? I considered going in, but took their advice.

Its only an attack if you feel threatened.

MAC chose to serve. You made an informed decision not to serve.

End of story.

I thank MAC for his service. I applaud you on your career choice.

Why would I question his advice....he served. :hee: he's talking from experience.

Hey Mac, Thank You for your service and true sacrafice. :btu: