End It...No matter what u say...guys will be against it...weather they want to or not... Dave..so don't let it get to ya...Negativity by nature.....here....
http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/312/loser3pf.gif

I'm out...:(

For now, that is...

you want to see the fish stocks rebound,start by banning all development within a mile of the water,stop the development of all wetlands.stop chorination of water supplies,stop fertilization of our lawns and farms.you might also want to eliminate bluefish. in the last several years up on the cape i have seen bluefish put more peanut bunker on the beaches to die than any commercial boat would catch in a year. how many peanuts would it take to spread 2 miles long several inches deep by a few feet wide for days on end.ban all fishing not just commercial.in the end it is all up to mother nature.

Well, at least it's good to see that people are recognizing there's a problem earlier on, rather than waiting until the stocks were all but destroyed, as happened the last time, although things have already clearly gone considerably downhill. Unfortunately, the difference this time is that the forage fish are involved as well, not just the striper fisherman. This is going to make doing something much, much, harder than before. Since the commercial guys are going to fight a herring ban, that means things will probably play out about the same as last time; the stocks will continue to decline until they have almost collapsed, then the state governments will have to impose much tighter herring and striper limits. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

Dave, this is the only post I was responding to,don't try to make it what it isn't. If you wish to make a valid point perhaps you would be better served by not using exaggeration or metaphors,rather presenting the facts to lend some credibility. The attack on calamma is also uncalled for given the fact he has obviously walked it and talked it before and appears to be saving his strength for fishing. This noble endeavor you are undertaking is obviously important to you, but a calculated strategy may cast it in a more serious light.

That was not an attack on Clammer, I was using his words as an example to show what seems to be a consensus among the many that sit back and wait. Clammer is a friend of mine, and all I did was take his words and put them in the mouths of the many who are saying the same things.

When I went to bed last night after submitting that last post, I considered getting back up to delete it because I did write it in the shotgun fashion, more typing, less thinking. :eek5: But I decided that leaving it up there was better because, it might push someone to go and it might piss a few people off... seems I mostly achieved the latter :).

The last thing I want to do is create enemies or spiteful ignorance of an important issue. I brought up the menhanden meeting because so many people were burying the Gamefish Bill in favor of saving the bait. So now we have a chance to make a step toward what was a unified goal -- but it's too hard I guess.

It's obvious that this is going nowhere. So, I guess I'll quit too for now.

I can't, for the life of me, figure out how this became a flame war. It's something we should all want. I guess I'll keep my tongue in my mouth from now on. I should know better anyway. :laughs:

-Dave

OKAY,,,,,,,,,,my Turn!!
 

DAVE!!

you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, imho.

before everyone goes to beating me up about
my past internet foibles and short time "in the suds",,,,,,,

i am inclined to agree with Dave and his argument,
prima facia, since what he is saying is sincere and VALID!

Clammer wasn't being attacked, it seemed that Canalman
was agreeing with him if you get the giste of Dave's words.
ALSO, exagerration is a fine way of emphasizing a point. BOTH
sides of this debate twist science, manipulate legislation, and
use some form of sensationalism to sway public opinion,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

soooooo, i don't fault Dave for having his opinion and sticking to it
while trying to call more than just a few of us to action. haven't WE ALL agreed that getting a busload of us to agree on anything is miraculous at best??? all the more reason for shame, exagerration, guilt, coupla bombs being tossed ~~most anything short of gunpoint~~ to get a large number of us MOVING towards a common goal.

whether his opinion is based in fact, or IS somehwat exagerrated to
wake someof us UP and get our bums off of our couches, is of little
or no consequence to me when the MAIN OBJECTIVE that i believe
he is shooting for is to promote INVOLVEMENT!!!

this problem that faces our fishery is a multi-faceted and prolonged process that WILL take a progression of wins and losses to arrive at the ultimate GOAL of resolving to do what is best for forage, species, AND estuary. BUT, what is undeniably TRUE is that we must remain resolute and involved with EVERY step of the process. and if tonight COULD start witha BANG??? then has Dave's end justified his means?? in my view, YES!!

amongst several esteemed dissenting opinions,
Dave's task is daunting at best and well worth stepping on a few toesies!!
hope i've not hurt anyone's feelings, and what time and where is the meeting in Plymouth, MA??
i'll sea ya there, CanalDave!!
:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

OK - Now to completely confuse everyone. The asmfc will be holding their annual meeting next week to do stock assessment.
I've attached some interesting documents relating to the Striped Bass and Menhaden issues.

The striped bass are starving because of no menhaden so where are the menhaden? Answer according to one NC study: Being eaten by the striped bass.

Very interesting and very complex. The asmfc has one tough problem to figuere out.

mass closed the comm bluefish season last sept because TOO MANY were being caught! go figure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0RBHeI5taU&NR=1

Damn...different thread...still put it in the wrong forum....

Sorry.....:rollem:

Anybody seen the Muzik Forum...:huh:

Well, it sounded good on paper, anyway...:rotflmao:...:rotflmao:...:rotflmao:

Thank You, DZ

for bringing those minutes to our fingertips.
still perusing the info, but it is rather enlightening.

nice to see that the board does listen to the audience, and
that it does include the people in attendance of their meetings.

so we should be putting together a bus for FEB 2, eh??
how expensive can it be and several voices would be better than one, NO?


FIX the FORAGE!!! sounds like a sweet battle cry to me.
ONE @ 36", ZERO for the COMMies!!!
:bl: :bl: :bl:

the second one is tongue in cheek,,,,,,,,,,,
thanks again, DZ, hope to sea ya this w/e.

Here is a clear way to fix the forage

Honest By Catch.com & MSBA Action Alert

The New England Fisheries Management Council is developing an Amendment or set of regulations to manage observers & by catch in the Atlantic Herring Fishery. This fishery primarily targets Sea Herring and is where the mid water trawl and pair trawl operations are known to catch large amounts of River Herring, Haddock, Scup, Shad, some Striped Bass and more. To learn more about the issue check out www.Honestbycatch.com

Currently, the Herring Oversight Committee is developing alternatives or options for the full council. At their December meeting only one set of alternatives was approved. The whole point of the process is for a range of alternatives to be analyzed for the full council. This step is also important because by the time the proposed regulations are released for public comment, it is too late to add new ideas because of the amount of evaluation that has to be done for an option to be legal.

The next meeting of the Herring Oversight Committee is tomorrow, January 28th at 9:30am at the Sheraton Providence Airport Hotel in RI. One of the items on the agenda for this meeting is for the committee to "review analysis of river herring bycatch in the atlantic herring industry". Links to the full agenda & meeting materials are posted here.

Agenda:http://www.nefmc.org/calendar/index.html

Materials:http://www.nefmc.org/calendar/index.html

Obviously, interested members of the public do not have the time to review all of the meeting materials. However you can still make a difference

The best way for you to make a difference is to attend the hearing because the more recreational fishermen and interested members of the public the more the regulators are able to stand up to industry pressure and write a good regulation. Just being in the room paying attention is important all by itself. If you then wish to speak at the times allowed you can and you do not have to sound like a scientist to do so. At the end of this section we have provided some basic ideas we feel should be included in the options.

Send E-mails & make calls now:
We urge all recreational fishers call and e-mail support of the CHOIR coalition proposal which can be read in the meeting materials link above. Key points to this proposal include:

Prohibit dumping (aka “slippage”) of a net while observers are on board.
Require observers on both vessels in a pair trawl.
Require 100 per cent observers in ground fish closed areas
Require a high level of observers at all times
Use time and area closures for locations known to have a history of by catch incidents

Please contact your state committee members today:

All States
Sally McGee
Environmental Defense
860/572-0190
email:smcgee@environmentaldefense.org

Rhode Island
Mark Gibson, Acting Chief
RI Division of Fish and Wildlife
401/783-8906
email: mark.gibson@dem.ri.gov

Massachusetts
David E. Pierce, Deputy Director
Division of Marine Fisheries
251 Causeway Street
Boston, MA 02114
617/626-1532/Fax:617/626-1509
email: david.pierce@state.ma.us

Maine
Terry Stockwell
ME Department of Marine Resources
21 State House Station
Augusta , ME 04333-0021
207/624-6562/Fax:207/624-6024
email: terry.stockwell@maine.gov

New Hampshire
Doug Grout, Chief, Marine Division
NH Fish and Game Department
225 Main Street
Durham, NH 03824
603/868-1096/Fax:603/868-3305
email: douglas.grout@wildlife.nh.gov

FYI...this is my new project...all on my own but getting endorsed by many including MSBA

A lot of different issues in a lot of different management authorities clashing in this thread. Bottom line is there are a group of us out there doing the work. We need you all to support the clubs that actully have reps at these meeitngs. We need you to respond to calls for action such as the one ongoing today. We need you to show up at hearings. Let's not fight amongst each other. Let's fight to have good regulations and balanced conservation and recreation.

Sorry for the quick response but this week is:

tues pm Ma Inshore Net Hearing in Plymouth
Wed Day NEFMC Herring Oversite Committee in RI
Wed Night MSBA 700th Meeting Cancelled---gotta plow now
Thursday Day MA Ocean Partnership Event all Day in Boston
Thursday PM Neponser River Citizens Advisory Committee (Think River Herring)
Friday....may be breathe


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgAyZEwniao

If I am in attendance at a meeting what should I do to help?

Listen...ask questions...when it is time for comment from audience or public tell em what you think

At the hearing tomorrow I will be there...say hello and I can show you some of the stuff we are supporting...see the meeting materials link above and check out the CHOIR proposal

There are some bullet points that are pretty simple listed above as well

thanks for the interest

Canal, your ambition and fervor is commendable. As I started the thread asking " How does one go about making a difference?" I did not expect a bus to be picking people up! I am, however, on the other side of the commercial/recreational debate. Once again I repeat, that does not imply that I am not preservation minded. As I see it we are not "enemies". As a commercial bass fisherman, a MA resident paying my licensing fee, following the law, why should I not be allowed to fish as such? If the comm season is ended, as you seem to support, are you ready to also close the recreational fishery? I do not see one happening without the other.

This is off the thread a little But [M] mentioned that the commercial Bluefish season in mass was actually closed last season because of too many being caught . while this year in RI >>. the bluefish chase fleet was SOL /because it didn,t happen in the bay .. 1st time I,ve seen this inmany years >> && IMO that was because there was not a steady supply of small bait . they were year . try snagging a pogie & get it in before it was chopped off .
there were some on the beaches this fall // but there couldn,t have been many being taken to market / because the market price in October was .60 P/P >>on the hoof .not gutted . where RI bloooofish price is usually much lower . a fall price is usually anywhere from .40 to .10 >> to we don,t want them ;;
Just a observation .. didn,t mean to jump thread ><><:wid:

Let's see here...I had a minute to breathe and that is now over...here is some comment/thoughts.

A slot of 20-26" + over 40" will do what? Can anyone answer?

I can

It will up the MA recreational catch and mortality numbers by orders of magantude (hundreds of percent)...There is no doubt about this because when Maine instituted it's slot limit the rec catch for the state increased 1900% and they're fishery is tiny compared to MA.

So what does that mean? Can anyone answer that?

I can

It is likely when the MA SB Rec Fishery which oh by the way happens to be the largest on the coast is calculated to be taking so very many more fish, there will be a complete redistribution coast wide and every states mortality will have to be cut, most of all MA. It will be only a few short years of every little kid to old man catching the 20-26" fish that are easily caught before MA has to take a cut. Depending on the amount of mortality required to be cut, we will either take a seasonal reduction or a more strict size limit.

To be more clear...We will without a doubt based on good science be taking a hell of a lot more fish out of the stocks under the proposed conservation legislation.

Oh yeah...by the way...if MA eliminates it's commercial fishery it does not get to not use it and keep it. It might be allowed to do like NJ and give it to the rec catch but it is also posssible there would be a turf war amongst the states that do have a commercial fishery and ASMFC would redistribute the fish.

This will only matter for a year or two because the incredible spike in the MA Rec Catch because of the low end of the slot limit would crash the stock asessment and cause a total redistribution as mentioned above.

Sorry but the science behind this bill is truely "Junk Science"

Just my personal opinion today...watch for formal info in the coming months.

I hope the writer was Chuck Casella then VP (I think) but definately an officer of MSBA at the time. Chuck formed the MA Sea Party Coalition...I still got the flyer in my puter...Chuck is now a MA Marine Fisheries Commish

The good thing is Chuck and I are both on the current MA Rec Registry Steering Committee and if that committee gets it's way we will have the license we all have said we could support with a dedicated fund etc etc...if the MA legislature does not accept our proposal and messes with it too much...we go to war opposing the bill letting it fail and let the fed plan kick in....less benefits but less opportunity for abuse as well...but this is a different subject...

Oh yeah...where is my horn..lol...just for the record when peeps that don't go to hearings anymore were telling all on this board that there was definately going to be a license in 2009 it was I, who is on the committee and communicates with others like me from here to DC that predicted we would get a pass for 2009 and sure as hell we did...yep I got some game in the BS department but on this sheet my friends, I do my homework...it's why I am always broke.

Ok I admit you guys got me going now:chatter:smash:

[QUOTE=MikeToole;658818]If you look at what is happening in Area 1A right now there will be no herring fishing from 1/1/09 through 5/30/09. Much of this is due to a write in campaign by sport fisherman. There are on going meetings to put in place further restrictions.
QUOTE]

As one of the guys in that bar in Maine (founding members of CHOIR Coalition) I think it is only fair to say that Mike, you are correct it was a letter writing campaing that started the effort but also we can not forget that the effort was made up of responsible commerical fishers, moderate enviros and recretional leaders that joined to get that effort that continues today (see my action alert from today) off the ground.

I just wanted to say thanks Mike for telling peeps it was a grass roots effort and yes we can make changes when done right...by the way it is dozens of hearings and waiting all day for 15 minute sections of a meeting that get's it done. It is not an overwhelming show of force but a steady reliable ready to roll into action whenever called effort that succeeds in fisheries management.

Huh?
 

[QUOTE=DZ;659120]
The striped bass are starving because of no menhaden so where are the menhaden? Answer according to one NC study: Being eaten by the striped bass. QUOTE]

Sounds like politics as usual DZ. Russell shed quite a bit of light on how politics forced the hand of Maryland biologists working on the issues the fish face in C. Bay.

I'd like to know who funded the study that claims the starving bass are eating themselves out of house and home while Omega goes about raping the resource.

Jon

here in n.j. the herring runs of former years has drasticle declined,the bunker runs have improved with adults but few if any peanuts this fall.big fall fishwere few except for monster blue fish that showed up in april and ate everything that swam.stop the herring netting and give the fishery a chance to restock or they will all go the way of the nonexsisting whiting

Your answer assumes nothing more is done to limit recreational kill. If catch/kill rates really did soar out of control, the state could simply implement a season like they have for many other fish (or much better make the slot limit more restrictive say 28-34", 46"+). Continuing to hammer large fish removes the most prolific breeders with the best genetic traits and the quality fish that drive recreational expenditures. A slot limit has worked fine for other fisheries in southern states.