That nobody seems to care about.

Not only politicians but now the screaming right's desire to invade Somalia.

Now this is inherently wrong, whether a warship is sitting in Norfolk or in the Indian Ocean, its costing money. Period. But mind you, would I want them stuck there when there's plenty of other capable nations in the region? No.

Ok, so the pirates just stuff a couple RPG's into the side of an LPG tanker. Lotta good those sharpshooters are huh?

Pirates
 

are "on the water" terrorists

and should be dealt with the same way
we deal with terrestrial terrorists

to gain what? these guys are in this for $, theres no $ in blowing up a tanker. Johnny D is right on.

There's money in it when you threaten to start blowing them up.

INVADE THE OCEAN! Oh wait...

They're doing that anyway. RPGs are being launched at many of the vessels that use their "defense systems" - systems that consist mainly of high-powered sounding devices and water guns.

Accuracy of an RPG above 200meters is pathetic. Yet well within the range of a sharpshooter.

To these Pirates, raiding these ships is a minimal-risk job considering the profits available. There is hardly any deterrent. Maybe some of them will start thinking twice when a couple dozen pirates die at sea for attacking the wrong vessels.

Considering its a 3rd world nation with absolutely nothing to gain other than through piracy, I doubt much other than real patrols is going to deter them.

So they get lit up, I'm sure they'll happily start shooting back and ransoming the cargo instead of the crew. Less hassle that way anyhow. And up until now the crews were treated pretty well overall. Thats out the door now.

Shipping companies don't want to pay to arm the ships nor pay for the liability. Replacing dead crew is cheaper than arming them.

I disagree. Considering the real risk to these companies is an increase of insurance premiums after being paid out, I'd speculate that insurance companies would provide decreased rates for shipping companies that have armed details.

In a pure, cold-hearted business sense, I would guess that preventing the death of one or two crewmen and not having to pay out the insurance costs is cheaper than arming them.

This isn't your car having an airbag, this is arming and training or paying for a 3rd party extra crew to be on board. Expensive. Not gonna happen.

What insurance? I doubt it costs them a dime if someone dies. American crewed shipping is a rarity in that region, most are from other countries.

Its a hell of a lot cheaper for a ship to be sitting pier side in norfolk than to be steaming around the IO. Do you realize how much fuel is burned by a destroyer when its underway.......not to mention just the 6 figure toll for going through the Suez Canal.

this episode
 

with the Pirates has changed everything!

the pirates have vowed they will kill all Americans now

so.... now it will be a shoot on sight deal-- I hope!

Well that fuel is gonna get burned one way or another. They don't sit for long unless undergoing maintenance. And hey, its just tax dollars.

But yet again, why exactly are we being expected to patrol?

We have always maintained a presence in the IO...we should continue to do that. What needs to happen is that the shipping companies need to pay for a seperate security force dedicated to security on their ships and not try and have the crew worrying about it.

If they board another US ship, Security force withstanding, the Navy needs to respond and take them out if need be.

Not for nothing but even France stepped up this weekend and said enough is enough.

And they won't.

Well the crew will be dead next time. Then what?

And got one of the hostages killed.

Why aren't Somalia's neighbors patrolling?
Why do you expect us to do everything? Do you ENJOY your tax dollars being wasted on a 3rd world desert hell hole?

Do you need to attend remedial reading....where did I say I expect us to do everything.

I put the safety and security of the crews on the shipping companies.

I said we respond to a US ship....didn't say anything about other countries

Somalia's Neighbors??? Ethiopia and Djibhouti......Can't say why...don't know much about their Navy...:rolleyes:

I suppose you just handed over your lunch money when they asked too....

Like you even said, the fuel is getting burned anyway isn't it?

Why should we waste it on Somalia?
There's better things to be doing.

Suez Canal makes Egypt alot of money.
This threatens their livelyhood there.
They can deal with it.

Actually that would be the ideal situation, if Egypt had a decent navy, they certainly wouldn't get all uptight about blowing away the pirates. Unfortunately, it doesn't affect them economically, the canal is a necessary evil for shipping costs, so they won't make the effort. So its up to us and the other seafaring nations to put a stop to it, just like we did with the pirates of Tripoli a few hundred years ago.

Well, looks like another attempted hijack of an American Ship (delivering aid) off Somalia. Reported to shoot up the bridge with AKs and tossed a couple RPGs in.

Crew and ship not hijacked. Bainbridge was on scene afterward

:cens:

While I think killing the pirates was necessary, they are going to start targeting American vessels. The pirates know they aren't armed, and until they are armed, this will continue.

Most shipping isn't US flagged so it really doesn't matter all that much.

Doesn't matter all that much? And yet another US flagged shipped was just attacked.

I guess it matters some.

Did someone really ask why Somalia's neighbors arent patrolling???? Am I the only one that thinks this is funny???

Is it your contention that this crisis could be averted with the swift response of the naval forces from Kenya and Djibouti?:wave:

How much can Kenya, Djibouti, and Eritrea do? The Somali coastline dwarfs theirs, the equivalent of going by coast from Point Judith to Tampa, Florida - the long way. The US would have trouble watching that with out entire Coast Guard.

This is the principle source that many people are ignorant on - people have an attitude of "how tough can it be". John, you are dead on that the amount of sea that needs to be secured is vast. Locally, people can't grasp what "a million square miles of open ocean" is. They think that just because we are the most powerful nation in the world, we should be able to stop these actions completely because we're the USofA.

What people don't get is that this isn't a time of war with Somalia so there is only a very small risk to US interests. The percentage of ships being attacked is statistically minuscule compared to the number of vessels that pass through the oceans.

"But Americans are being attacked." Behind the scenes, I'd be willing to bet the administration's response is "So what?" The only reason any country has involved their Navy patrolling the waters is because of the potential economic impact to their own interests.

Send Madonna in there, she can adopt the pirates. Oh wait, we have the UN. I forgot how much good they have done for Africa in the past.

And one of the core Navy beliefs I'm told is that Navy will protect American Citizens and Commerce on the world's seas. Those people were doing just that. This is also the first instance this has come up in years. The Somali just don't care or concern themselves of that yet.

For several months a bunch of ships from US, Europe, Russia, India, and China have been patrolling the waters - mostly in the Gulf of Aden (China has sent warships to patrol further then they have for hundreds of years). Attacks there are down somewhat from this time last year. Attacks of the East Coast of Somali have increased. Go figure. Move, Countermove. Move, countermove.

The administration may have been "so what" or do what you gotta do. The on scene people made the immediate decision, likely in the confines of engagement they were given, and made the call. Executed amazingly. How that call for that instance plays out long term will be interesting to see.

:rotflmao:

Send Bono in with her :hee:

Its too bad Somalia doesnt have oil. If it did we could use this piracy crisis as an excuse to take over the oil fields :hihi:

Hey, with the green spin on things these days, what is the accepted biodegradable alternative to tin foil for making hats these days? :hee: :rotflmao: :lasso:

If they had oil, they would have been invaded by someone else a long time ago. Oh, didn't the Italians invade them long time ago?

Go smoke some kaat :smokin:

And cover out to 700 nm. Maybe time for a marine version of Blackwater......

"and we'll need two carriers.....and maybe some jets, yeah we'll need some jets."

Blackwater has already offered their services... at a cost of course.

Estimated cost for a security unit on board is $60,000 per trip.

exacto to the rescue
 

very cool technology

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...0.html?cnn=yes

A Hell of a lot cheaper than 1-2 Million in Ransom.....not to mention it won't be long before people start suing the companies for not providing a safe working environment

This is exactly my point.

$60,000 compared to the $150Million in cargo many of the ships are carrying. I'd be willing to bet insurance companies would decrease their rates as well if they were given a certificate showing that a security force will be on board.

I've read that there are some international laws that might cause a hurdle.

Either way
 

the cost of doing business via cargo ship
just went up because of somalia's thugs

the exacto sniper rifle can shoot them

from 1 mile away

so.....they won't see it coming.....

"Quiggly down Under"..... LOL

but still this additional cost will eventually be passed
on to the consumer.

Johnny D-Leave Spence alone, look at all the hooligans he is giving something legitimate to do today. They might all be partaking in a tax protest today for the benifit of CNN 's ratings.

For three days now, these "tea parties" are the only thing I've seen on FoxNews.

CNN, MSNBC, Fox... they're all pathetic.

And what's the deal with that one woman on the Headline news channel that has been reporting about "Missing tot" and "Tot's mom" for 6 months now?? I've never seen her report about anything else.

This morning on the news they were talking about them "Tea-Bagging" at the "Tea Parties".........I found that rather humorous. I don't think they realized what they were saying

ya that lady is Obsessed with the tot Mom

she is nauseating.... just to listen too....

Wasn't she also responsible for the suicide death of some other "mother" she was trying to get rich off ?