Chris,

My point is the fishery isn't collapsing. Based on what we see and hear there may be a fewer fish, I don't know.

My question to everyone was simply this...How do you judge what quality fishing is? Do you need a 50 or 60 every trip out in order for it to be considered good? I don't thnk so. You don't even need 30 or 40# fish to be considered good, IMO.
My belief is there's still plenty of fish out there. Just because the folks we know catch less one year than the previous doesn't constitute a collapse.

As for commercial landings, I did the commercial thing for many years (1985-2001) and can tell you in the early-mid 90's the striped bass fishery was deemed "restored" by fisheries managers. It still took 6-8 weeks to fill a quota that was less than half of what we have now. Maybe it was because fewer people were participating, I'm not sure. This means it took nearly the same amount of time back then to fill a quota that was half of what we have now...are you paying attention?

Personally I had a bettert year than the last two but a far cry from 8-9 seasons ago. We can definitely argue about what's to blame (seals, commercial fishery, bait, weather, regulations, fishermen taking steroids (If I don't the next guy will!)) but I really see very little reason not to do something. Why not go to 1 @ 36"? Worst case scenario we improve a healthy fishery, what a bummer that would be! I don't know what constitutes a healthy or ideal fishery but I do know that a lot of experienced anglers share my feeling that the striper fishery is not what it was a few years ago.

Aren't you still a comm guy?
Semantics don't work in this case Mike.I didn't say collapse, but I did use words like decline and subpar.The 30,40 or 50's thing isn't especially relevent in this case either.Personally,I'm happy with the thought that there MIGHT be fish where I happen to be casting.You can dig up as many skewed numbers from the past as you want to support your weak argument but my eyes and ears tell me now what many Old Salts have been saying for a few years.Please post pics of all the cows you caught this fall.(without redlite guiding)

Fair enough, but you did say they were in trouble. As for what you, I, or anyone else caught this fall whether guided or not, it simply doesn't apply to the big picture. A few weeks of slow fishing in one single spot doesn't mean the fish are disappearing.

Much like me, you were the proverbial Charlie Brown waiting for the great pumpkin this fall...and he never showed.

As for the "guide" comment, I need a good guide in order to have a shot at catching something decent.:huh: I have no problem admitting it.

This is the reason I typically turn down all your "guide" offers...you simply don't produce for me...:laugha:

Education might help too....I, myself, honestly thought that gamefish status meant no keeping what-so-ever......strictly catch and release.

I would bet that there is a lot of people that didn't know this that are against Gamefish status for just that reason.

I would agree with that too......one fish 36" @ gamefish status

My thoughts exactly.. only my fish went to the local coop.... I havent killed ( knowingly ) or sold a bass since 2004...

I fish well north of most of you ( NH boarder to Gloucester), gone are my days of chasing bass up and down the coast, at 53 I'm just not inclined and have nothing to gain or prove by it.... I have my patch of "ground" and it has been very,very kind to me, even when the fishing was tough for others to the south( early to mid 80's), I always had an abundance of fish...during the moritorium, I still did well and thought the "doom and gloom" was a crock.. my thinking then ,is you just need to fish harder.. fact is.. I hadn't been at it long enough... now, being older and wiser ( the wiser part sometimes questionable) i see things differently... and with out a doubt, there are far fewer small fish.. missing mostly, are the 10-12lb class fish, Normaly Plum Island ( Mass) is loaded with these fish, there are nights I need to make several moves just to get away from them...the last few years they have all but vanished from traditional waters... we all ( or those of us that have been around a few years)know that bass stocks and their comings and goings are cyclical, some years they show in spots for several years in a row then they are gone, only to show up in big numbers somewhere else,they may be the king ( or queen) of the surf, but they have been known to hang off shore ( the bank)... and when they migrate, they dont always take the shoreward route, thus lending to the absence of a fall ( or even a spring) run, I hear/ see people talk about all the fish still in Maine... it means nothing to the fishermen ( and woman) to their south, the longer they stay in Maine, the surer the bet that they ride the outside currents out over the deeper ( and warmer) bait filled water, right around the tip of the cape( cod)...fall runs are all about location, some years some areas have banner years while others wonder where all the fish are....

are the fish in trouble... maybe, but I dont think so.. at least not yet... are there less of them.. no doubt about it.. I'm in favor with those wanting to give these fish game fish status.. personaly.. I think they deserve it....and as for the bait sorces AKA Pogies and herring.. we havent seen a sustained school of pogies in the Merrimack river since 1987... no big bait means no big fish... IMHO the main reason the river is lifeless by early August after the last of the surviving herring have returned to sea...thus most of the action is out on the beach...

I will say it again.I AM NOT BASING THIS ON MY EXPERIENCES.But I have friends who also have friends that are fishing what are historically productive areas.Valiant,the race,BI....they simply could not stay on the fish.Never mind my barren pumpkin patch.I think this qualifies as the big picture.Read the words instead of interpreting them.This is not a fall run observation either,rather a compilation of data going back a handful of years.To me, words like decline and subpar will eventually equal trouble,it's simple math.And stop Flaptailing us with old comm stories on the backside.

[QUOTE=Fish360;719469]I did a lot of hunting for striped bass in Maine's rivers, estuaries, jetties, and beaches between Saco river and Ogunquit river. I hit all my regular hot spots (big producers in years past). Skunked!! Towards the end of the season, I went to a beach I never fished before and landed an fish full of attitude! This fish was mean! She drank sea water and excreted salt. Given the tackle I was using, I thought she was a 30 - 40 lber. Not! Only 8 lbs. Go figure. There is something in the Maine's water. :-).

I fished a total of around 3 weeks in Maine, from the Piscataquaw to Kennebunk, with a concentration around Wells/ Ogun......I found it to be pretty good. Every day I caught at least a couple of stripers. Not the big ones I see on this site, but bigger than usual. Had good luck on the fly...several around 30", which was great for me. And had a blast on a couple of boat trips on the coast. All in all, very good memories.

Agreed! I always took my bunker and left upper upper bay, never fished there. Sometimes I just wished the bunker would leave and that the bass would follow, just so the bass would stop getting murdered. It was like shooting fish in the proverbial "bucket" up there this spring.

I'll admit, I had a tougher spring than usual which was probably directly related to the fact that bunker were only holding STRONG in that one particular area (as opposed to many coves like years' past) and therefore was no reason for the bass to be in strong numbers elsewhere. But I still rather fish alone in some of my favorite spots, away from the crowds, than get caught up in that absolute mess up there.

I know you saw what it would get like up there Sat morning at 6am...crazy. That's why I was up there at 2am, just like you.

Hahahaha that's too funny! "Flaptailing" I cannot wait to use that.

I guess we could call your posts "Sea Dangling"?:rotf2:

:buds:Get the point of this emoticon?

The worst season I ever had... 1 30 lber from shore and from the boat we killed them top bass was 49.05
Its not over yet.... 54 water temp down here...

Sea Dangling=Trolling, albeit at very high speed...:fence:

Wasnt the best season I have had but its wasnt the worst either. Someone mentioned earlier that unless you were on patrol 4-7 nights a week you could have missed out. I have to agree. Had only a handful of fishless nights and 5 or so nights out of probably 30-40 trips this year that was surfcasting at its finest yeilding many,many fish on those outings in the 25-35lb class and a few low 40s mixed in. There was a huge lack of bait in my area compared to years past but think its different every year is.....next it could be loaded.

The amount of time I put on the water only yielded 2 40+lb fish. I was a bit dissapointed as we logged over 200 hours surf casting the boulder fields this year from June-Oct.

Games almost over...1 more week and I am calling it. My wife is starting to wonder if she is still married.

Fireman

Boat fishing the bass were thick out off Race point (Big Jay). East of Chatham up the backside; had consistent numbers and the rips were red hot earlier in the year. To the south the pickings were good for the boat guys. I'd say it was a good year for bass and the boat guys. No regrets. From shore another story at least for me.

CONDITIONS, conditions, conditions~~
 

first, i am for 1 @ 36", Striper gamefish status, AND an ACMenhaden inshore moratorium for 5 yrs.
and they must be done together, since by themselves yer only pissing in the wind, imho.

for me this year was an ODDD year,,,,,,,,,,,,,

wet spring conditions, tide times not aligning with moons,
GLASS at the right times/right moons, funky fishing ALL year.

for the last three years~~~ my go-to's, were unwaivering!
down to the days/hours based on conditions that had repeated.
hell, they even "felt" like the same pods of fish, migrators and residents alike. consistently stacking up, varying in size and fight, maintaing a realizable "pattern" from June to November with regard to size and amount gathered~~ but nonetheless THERE, right where they were "supposed to be" according to the best lawgs intel i have been able to compile.

and then there is 2009, to wit, the rub of which we are speaking.

a couple of things occurr to me as i review my three spots that i have documented the most in that short 4 year span, to include '09. this year was MOSTLY much slower and something completely DIFFERENT! this year i had schoolies earlier, and more often, and more of them, from NH to RI. one spot has been typically absent of schoolies and notable for lahhhge. this year it was the reverse, where schoolies were the norm and 25#-30# fish were fewer and farther between, not nearly as many, and NOTHING over 30#??? at the same NShore haunt for 4 months, this year only, it was schoolie central. specifically, there was one night that cookie cutter 19" stripers were landed 7 of 10 casts,,,,,,,,,,come to find out after talking to some locals~~~they bailed 9 40#'s in a three week period, no less than a beach and two coves away. so that tells me that they WERE there, just NOT on my exit ramp. and as an aside~~i did move around quite a bit more than years past, introduced myself to two areas, and got led to a couple more,,,,,,,,,,,,,,to a VERY slow and significantly SMALLER season, overall.

the second thing is this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,this year was loaded with glass-like conditions. for many of the "optimal dark tides" there was absolutely ZERO surf!!! there were bumps, ghost takes, swim-bys, short takes, tail slaps, big/med/sm swipes, and man-hole cover swirls. basically, all the signs of skiddish predation towards offerings that have slayed in the past when given the same time/tide/moon/place. could've been me, as i know i missed several(4 BIGGUNS) takes this year; yet, something was "missing" within the surf this year. primarily, i think that it was the surf itself. glassy, gin clear, firey water certainly favors our quarry.

lastly, i'll close with this. don't blame me, i got rained out today ~so what else is a bruthah to do? having read ALL of the above, could we not simply be in a YOY lull? the spike years were '89-28, '93-42, '96-60, '01-52. if it takes 6-8 years to reach 27"-35" and a reasonable growth rate is 1"/yr up to 12 years old, then are we not about where we should be sizewise based on the science? 2002 was well below the mean average of 11.7, 4.6 roughly.

so, is it safe to ascertain that we've experienced a not so stellar year based on stock patterns and changes in paths of migration, rather than the END is near? certainly we need change, please see the top, but i don't think that we are in the middle of a crash~~~more like the preventable outer edges should we enact proactive measures, NOW!