And there you have it folks, the race card has been dealt.

spence, this is tiring. we usually disagree but this time you're really surprising me. A vigilante MEANS something. They are people who take the law into their own hands, they go out on their own to deliver justice on someone, right?
Zimmerman CALLED THE COPS ! HE TOLD THE COPS WHERE HE WAS!
By definition - vigilantes dont call the police! the incident didnt occur hours after the call, it was minutes after. He suddenly had some change of heart?
He never in the 911 call said "I'm gonna get this guy" or "I'm going kill this bastard"
If you listen to teh call, Zimmerman sounds SCARED, not aggressive
That didnt happen, he called the police and gave his name, phone and address.
How do you think the altercation happened. Trayvon said hey why are your following me? Zimmerman then pulled out his gun? Really? If so, you're tellng me Trayvon has balls to then attack Zimmerman ( we know that happened to to Zims wounds) ??? You think he attacked after the gun was pulled? If not, then it appears likely Trayvon acted first.
Think about it.

Then why didn't Zimmerman stay in his truck?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Liberals (sorry, most liberals) deny a connection between Islamic terrorists and Islam. Most conservatives concede the connection.

Most liberals deny the connection between the vast majority of those who want to blow us up, and Islam, which motivates them. Obama, a leader of liberalism, wants a "negotiated peace" with the Taliban, yet liberals say that conservatives are declaring war on women? So women have nothing to fear from the Taliban, but they need to be worried about Paul Ryan?

Now THAT is worthy "wow...just wow."

Conservatives admit mathematical realities. Liberals happily ignore mathematical realities when it serves their kooky agenda.

Please. The race card was dealt when Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson started screaming that the kid was lynched because he was black. There are documented cases of white people being beaten by blacks, because of their race, in retaliation for this case. But you're saying I just dealt the race card, just now?

Please. Talk sense. You're making this too easy for me.

Likwid, you're going to deny that the race of the victim has many liberals rushing to judgment?

Likwid, I didn't play the race card here. I correctly pointed out that your side played the race card here, with zero evidence that race had anything to do with it (as usual, for your side).

No, no. You said it was "his job" to stay in the car. That's what you said, and it's B.S.

I also suspect he's probably going to be convicted of a lesser charge, mostly to keep the anarchists on your side of the aisle from burning the state of Florida to the ground, which they have a tendency to do when things don't go their way. Especially when your leaders like Al Sharpton get all the morons good and worked up over a bunch of lies.

Hey guys, stripers are in!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Oh how cute! A personal attack! Let me make a funny like you RIJimmy; steers and queers. Hurry up, they're calling you.

And lets look at some facts.
"They always get away" his words
"Damn coons" his words
Seems he thought he was doing the 'right' thing. And I bet he thought he was in the right for shooting the kid.

Jimmy, lets get down to brass tacks here, are you afraid of black people?

Well, it would be the conservative way :jester:

-spence

It would? Really?

Read some history, Spence. Conservatives led the charge to abolish slavery. Conservatives led the charge to end segregation. The last time the Civil Rights Act was defeated in the US Senate, it was fillibustered by 2 senators from the Democratic party - Robert Byrd (who the Dems made president of the Senate, making him 3rd in line for succession to the office of President) and Al Gore, Senior.

My party wants to give blacks the tools they need to succeed. Your party wants to cripple them for life, by patting them on the head, saying "there, there", and giving them a welfare check. That's worked out just great for the last 30 years, hasn't it?

Thanks to your party's welfare programs which pay teenagers to have kids out of wedlock, 70% of black childred are born out of wedlock. 70%. Not a great cultural leap forwrd in my book.

Spence, when you get past the bullsh*t rhetoric and look at the truth, the air is pretty clean on my side when it comes to race.

Your party, not mine, put a former Klansman to be 3rd in line for the office of the President, until his death in 2010. And Robert Byrd used the "n" word in a TV interview the year he died, so it's not like he turned over a new leaf.

Have fun weaseling your way out of that little fact.

And no, racism is not the conservative way? But it is most certainly the liberal way to accuse conservatives of racism (which is what Likwid did), once you realize you've been pummeled in a debate.

Originally Posted by JohnR

"OK, this thread has run its course. If anything of substance comes along, maybe we can have a new thread. But this has been a circular argument.

I wish peace to Trayvon's family and hope they can find some closure. I hope the systems does what is is supposed to do, and make the appropriate call. John R"

anytime now John:)

this is ugly and kinda reflects what were seeing across the nation unfortunately....I fear it's only going to get worse....

No, it's clearly spelled out in the community watch rules that Zimmerman was supposed to be following. As the chief of the neighborhood watch you'd think he'd know them better than anyone.

I haven't seen anything that indicates Zimmerman didn't cross this line completely on his own judgement.
Al Sharpton doesn't really have anything to do with this case. It's a deke by some to distract from the substance of this issue.

I think it's going to boil down to two simple things, Martin had every right to be where he was, and Zimmerman crossed the line in his duty in the neighborhood watch by moving beyond simply reporting what he saw as suspicious behavior and by carrying a firearm when he wasn't supposed to be.

If Martin was indeed profiled -- the reporting is that there have been many thefts by young black men recently -- then the issue of Zimmerman crossing the vigilante line is even more important.

Most of the support for Zimmerman appears to be coming from the gun lobby...who's position is just as absurd as Al Sharpton.

-spence

Zimmerman also had a right to be where he was.So if Martin attacked Zimmerman, as some have reported, then Martin could be the vigilante attacking whites for what he assumed was profiling and Zimmerman the victim, who had a right to protect himself.

"No, it's clearly spelled out in the community watch rules that Zimmerman was supposed to be following. As the chief of the neighborhood watch you'd think he'd know them better than anyone."

Last time I checked, Zimmerman has the right to get out of his car and walk. Did he do more than that? Did he instigate? Probably. But I wasn't there, and I'll wait for the facts. I learned that from the mistake I made in rushing to judgment in the Duke lacrosse case.

"Al Sharpton doesn't really have anything to do with this case."

So I'm making it up? Sharpton wasn't using this case to fan the flames of hate like he always does? Sharpton has nothing to do with it? Tell that to the white folk who have been beaten in retaliation for this. Tell that to the elderly couple who had to move into a hotel because Spike Lee Tweeted their address. Tell that to Zimmerman, who had a bounty put on his head by the Black Panthers.

Spence, you make stuff up when it suits you. i do not.

"Most of the support for Zimmerman appears to be coming from the gun lobby"

Wrong, and made up. I have no connection to the gun lobby. I doubt Alan Dershowitz does either.

Spence, get a grip, man.

there are a lot of similarities to the 2009 Scott-Cervini case in Greece NY, Scott was acquitted...not much hooplah nationally.......

CNN-According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after briefly losing track of Martin, the teen approached him. After exchanging words, Zimmerman says, he reached for his cell phone, and then Martin punched him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pinned him to the ground and began slamming his head into a sidewalk.

I think the photos of the back of his head and a witness confirm at least some of this and the wounds were obviously inflicted prior to the shooting, Scott had no such injuries that I'm aware of and pulled the trigger more than once...and no "Stand Your Ground" Law

If you were in NY it was a huge case.

So tell us scott, what are the similarities?

Why should he bother sharing facts with you? So that you can accuse him of racism, like you did with Jimmy?

"There are many similarities between the Scott-Cervini case and the George Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin case in Florida. In both cases, there had been a spate of criminal activity in the neighborhood. In both cases, the shooters called 911 to report suspicious activity, yet chose to confront the unarmed suspects outside their residence and off their own property prior to the arrival of the police. In both cases, the shooters claimed that they felt threatened, and fired in self-defense. In both cases, local law enforcement applied relevant state law.

Unlike Florida, New York does not have a "stand your ground" law. New York law allows a person to use deadly force to defend his residence from home invasion only as a last resort. It does not allow the use of deadly force to prevent a property crime, and requires retreat if possible. Thus, while Zimmerman was not arrested under Florida law, Scott was tried for manslaughter.

New York law does allow a person to use deadly force anywhere, including off his own property, if he feels that his life is in imminent danger and retreat is not possible. Despite the fact that he left his own property, confronted, and shot dead an unarmed white person thought to be committing a petty property crime, Scott was acquitted by a majority-white jury after claiming that the Cervini charged at him, putting him in imminent fear of his life."



I don't think Martin was shot because he was smuggling Skittles or profiled for wearing a hoodie, he was shot because he somehow ended up on top of Zimmerman beating his head into the ground(I'm just going by the evidence), how he ended up there is a matter for the jury to decide but I don't think I'd be justified if I was being followed by a homeless person asking for change and ended up on top of them beating their head into the sidewalk because they were bothering me or profiling me as someone who might give them some money:)..they have a right to be on the sidewalk just as I'd have a right to walk past them, if they ask me a question or even harass me verbally, I don't have a right to beat them...

Cervini and his friends were high/drunk and Scott saw them attempting to break into a car.

What was Trayvon doing?

New York is a victim state to put it simply.
No relevance.

Thought? Read the reports. He was actively committing a crime according to Scott.

How do you draw a gun while having your head bashed into pavement?

Your analogy assumes no suspicion of malice, it's quite reasonable to think that Martin felt threatened. If some guy was following me in the dark in an unfamiliar neighborhood you'd better believe I'd have my guard up.

Interesting to read that Zimmerman has caught a criminal and held them for the police before. That combined with his remark on the 911 tape that "these a$$holes always get away" seems to establish a clear motive for his actions contrary to the rules established for the neighborhood watch. I think the prosecution will be able to establish a pattern of behavior and portray Zimmerman as someone who for good intentions crossed the line into vigilante justice which willingly put him in a position where he was threatened.

Considering the result was a dead kid, I don't see how Zimmerman can escape responsibility for his actions. We'll see.

-spence

probably out of desperation :uhuh:

again...which one?

and is this the quote that you are referring to?

"He once caught a thief and an arrest was made," Cynthia Wibker, secretary of the homeowners association, told the Herald. "He helped solve a lot of crimes."

Im sorry you only see things one way. 90% of your posts are personal attacks. If we are discussing a court case and you can only see one side, you are missing 50%. Court cases are not one sided. I tried to show, very clearly, the other side which is a much more compelling argument that you presented. You seem to be the one filled with hatred, I am looking at the evidence as I see it. I could care less what race of the people involved are.

No Disrespect but.....

Came across this on the web and thought it was great... I heard so much about this case... He is gonna have an unfair trial. No one was there to know what really happened,, its all he said she said Bull #^&#^&#^&#^&.

:agree:

Zimmerman's injury report has been released!

Lock your doors and load your guns!That's what you'll have to do when Zimmerman gets acquitted and the president has to express his disappointment.The projects and surrounding suburbs will be in flames!

WOOHOO!!!....2012 is shapin' up to be fine one boys and girls.Bring on Dec.21st!!!!!

I guess I will play a Philadelphia lawyer like the rest here. Self defense.

NOT GUILTY!!!!!

Yep, sounds like he was getting his a$$ kicked by the kid he profiled as a criminal so he shot him. Nothing like a little vigilante injustice...no wonder the police hate it.

The irony is some here are advocating for Zimmerman to defend the right to carry...when in fact a full Zimmerman acquittal will probably set gun rights BACK across the country.

-spence

If the kid was kicking his ass, he is a criminal!
I think you will see more guns bought. Gun rights are what they are...a Right.

Only if unprovoked, but by following Martin, Zimmerman had likely established himself as the aggressor. Zimmerman's previous behavior and remarks on the tape would back up the allegation that he got out of his vehicle with the intent to cause a conflict.

Now certainly Zimmerman will argue that it was in good faith, and it quite possibly was. But that doesn't mean he doesn't still have responsibility for his own judgement.

-spence

I agree he used bad judgement. That does not give Martin the right to attack Zimmerman. He just chose the wrong time and guy to be a tough guy with. Would Zimmerman have followed Martin had he been unarmed?...doubt it.
Would Martin have attacked Zimmerman if he knew he was armed?...doubt that too.

Times have changed since 9/11. People don't stand around anymore. They act.

:huh:

:huh: