Originally Posted by spence
(Post 1087426)
I think it ultimately comes down to what people want from life.
That is ultimately obvious. But it is so fundamental that, as a general statement, it is misleading. The sameness in general implies similarity in the specific. But the specifics make all the difference. So the question is what does a true Muslim want from life? To conjure up an answer, one must first have an inkling of what it means to be a true Muslim.
Democracy, personal freedoms?
Democracy and personal freedoms are not automatically compatible. A defined and limited democracy which is constrained from imposing law on all "persons" simply by the will of a majority, or by the whim of centralized power, is required in order to preserve personal freedoms. The definition of such a democracy must limit it to a minimum of powers which subjugate it to the sovereign "persons." A good example would be the U.S. Constitution--as written and intended.
I'd wager that there's a lot of similarities with Judeo Christian ethics at the individual level.
A lot? Maybe in generalized characterizations of individual human behavior and desire--the coming down to what people want paradigm. But in the specifics within those characterizations, there is a world of difference between Judeo Christian ethics and Islamic ethics. That is, if we are speaking of true Christians and true Muslims.
Granted that Islam has a closer tie to politics than Christianity structurally,
Islam doesn't merely have a "closer tie" to politics, it IS politics. It is "structurally" composed as a theocratic system of government. The "religion" and the "government" are one and the same. There is no separation. There is no secular component to Islamic law. If we are speaking of true Islam.
True Christianity is not "structurally" concerned with the politics of this world. It distances itself from the realm of the State (that which is Caesar's) and enters into the spiritual realm of the "person." The connection, if you care to call it political, is directly between the person and God (that which is God's). If we are speaking of true Christianity.
but this has also been bastardized by Cold War politics the past 60 years.
Both religions have been bastardized in the course of their existence. There have been periods where Christianity was bastardized into an arm of the State. And periods in certain places where Islam was "structured" into a more tolerant quasi-secular theocracy. But reform for each has been a return to fundamentals. And, though bastardization began to make the religions a bit more similar in "structure," they maintained fundamental differences. And reformation to original "structure" allows Christianity to be perfectly compatible to our Constitution. Fundamental, true, Islam doesn't fit. It doesn't allow for sovereign individuals, or individual rights, or personal freedom . . . etc.
I also don't see much difference between a devout Muslim recognizing the Constitution as the basis for US government versus an evangelical Christian.
Bless you Spence . . . always the nice guy, suppressing any natural inclination to hate or discriminate (or not having such inclinations) . . . always wanting to make us all alike, refusing to see any differences which might run counter to your niceness . . . and ever ready to twist and couch your language in irrelevant truths and in such a way as to make be what isn't.
That you don't see "much" (I guess "some" but not important) difference between a devout Muslim and an evangelical Christian recognizing the Constitution as the basis for US government is neither here nor there in regard to their view and allegiance to that Constitution. Again, you state the obvious similarity implying that there are no significant differences.
Do you see much of a difference between an anarchist, or a communist, or a Nazi, recognizing the Constitution as the basis for the U.S. government versus an evangelical Christian? What? . . . should a communist see the Communist Manifesto as the basis for U.S. government? Seeing as how the Constitution IS the basis for U.S. government one would have to be blind (or a Progressive) not to see that.
It is absolutely possible, probable, and true that a Christian can not only see that, but could in his mind, heart, and soul abide by and be faithful to the Constitution. Communists, Nazis, anarchists, Socialists, true Muslims, (and Progressives) can not in their mind, heart, and soul (if they have one) abide by and be faithful to the Constitution.
I doubt those who can't deal with it are going to be banging down the door to immigrate any time soon.
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