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- - cop, legal immigrant, murdered by illegal immigrant in xmas day (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=94601)

Quote:

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1158461)

When dealing with millions, 44% vs. 50% is a big difference. And its way different than the 60% you were pretty sure of. But, in any case, either is huge in itself and needs fixing. Comparison, any way, is irrelevant. Fixing one is not at the expense of the other. The border problem needs its own solution. Trying to compare it to another problem in a negative way does not diminish it. It's just a misdirection attempting to disparage the need for a wall.

It’s not a misdirection, rather it highlights Trump’s motivation is mostly political.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1158462)

Are we not at that situation now? Actually being illegal puts a huge crimp in the notion that something is not illegal. Being here illegally is contrary to being here as if you have a right to be here and to being protected from discovery and deportation.

Without explicitly saying so, just about everything you say to justify the protection of and aid to illegal immigrants amounts to the notion, if not the actual fact, that they have a right to be here. It basically supports the idea of open borders. It would be more respectful if you admitted that rather than couching your thoughts in elusive language.

It doesn’t mean they have a specific right to be here, but it’s an acceptance they they are here, they are an important part of our economy and their presence as undocumented isn’t a crime. It’s a complex systems issue not something you can just boil down to extremes. Reagan understood this, HW understood this, Clinton understood this, W understood this and Obama understood this. Trump, not so much.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1158463)

Secure Fence Act of 2006. unless you’re one of those who say a fence and a wall aren’t the same thing.
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I’m giggling
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Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1158469)

I’m giggling
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Haha
Love this post
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1158463)

Secure Fence Act of 2006. unless you’re one of those who say a fence and a wall aren’t the same thing.
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Aug 25, 2015 07:39:01 AM Jeb Bush just talked about my border proposal to build a "fence." It's not a fence, Jeb, it's a WALL, and there's a BIG difference!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1158466)

It’s not a misdirection, rather it highlights Trump’s motivation is mostly political.
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Yes, it is a misdirection from the wall to the overstays. Each has their own solutions. If it were, as you say, that there is a 50/50 split in how many of each are here, then each is equally important to solve. To deke from one to another as if to say the previous is not valid but merely political is deliberate misdirection.

And OMG, pointing out that a politician's motive is mostly political . . . what a revelation!!! Mostly any politician's motive is mostly political. Pelosi's and Schumer's motives are mostly political. Probably more mostly than Trump's.

(And BTW, "mostly" of something indicates there is more of other somethings. In this case, a need to control illegal border crossings. Your slippery, indefinite verbiage notwithstanding.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1158468)

It doesn’t mean they have a specific right to be here, but it’s an acceptance they they are here,

If not a "specific" right, then what "general" right do they have to be here? And why must we accept that they are here? If we must accept their being here, isn't that tantamount to saying that they have a right to be here?

they are an important part of our economy and their presence as undocumented isn’t a crime.

They distort our economy as well as straining the resources we have to serve "legal" residents. Our economy would work without them. It would, in my opinion, raise the value of the work they actually do if done by "legal" Americans who would demand higher wages. The so-called middle class problem we are supposed to be experiencing could be lessened. And our resources, including welfare care of all kinds would not be stretched to include the extra many millions of illegals.

And the issue is not criminal, it is "legal." Because something is illegal, doesn't mean it is necessarily a crime. They are illegal aliens. The apologetic rhetoric you always use to justify the difficulty we must go through to stop the flow of illegal residents reminds me of an immigration lawyer I dealt with who was really, when push came to shove, in favor of mass immigration from south of the border and from impoverished countries. He absolutely felt that they had a right to come and stay here and become citizens. He used the criminal and economic gibberish that you couch your apologetics with to make it sound legal and right. But he basically actually believes we have an obligation to accept the vast majority of them.

That he made his money off of them might be a factor, but I think his motives were "mostly" idealistic.

It’s a complex systems issue not something you can just boil down to extremes. Reagan understood this, HW understood this, Clinton understood this, W understood this and Obama understood this. Trump, not so much.
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You do realize they all had "mostly" political motivations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1158469)

I’m giggling
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Again, a vague insult with nothing specific about why I was wrong. It's almost all you do.

Spence, let me ask you this...what's the most significant policy agenda item, on which you completely disagree with liberalism? I completely disagree with conservatives on gay marriage and the death penalty, and I have disagreements with conservatism on gun control and on the obligation to provide healthcare to everyone. I can think for myself, which is why I'd never agree 100% of the time with any one party.

How about you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1158515)

I don’t think of liberalism as some monolithic block. Mostly I’m a centrist, not a liberal.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1158405)

No, I’m pretty sure close to 60% of illegal aliens are people who have overstayed VISAs rather than made illegal border crossings.

Same goes for illegal drugs, only a small fraction is smuggled over land, most all comes through ports.
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Completely false on both points.
.
Are you sure or just "pretty sure"?.Big difference between the two...one is an opinion and the other is a fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1158413)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...017/924316002/

Homeland Security: More than 600,000 foreigners overstayed U.S. visas in 2017

here is reality Trump and his administration have focused far more on building a wall along the southern border with Mexico,

why would that be??????

USA Today...great source.What's next Factcheck.org?

And how many of those 600,00 reapplied,left or were booted?Much more than you will ever admit.Much,much more.

Reality.You need an incredibly large dose of it,but then again you waste your time wondering "what if" there was GoFundME in 1940?Or "I wish" it was like that or like this.All I can tell you is keep wondering what might have been and keep wishing your life away.

Reality.Once you start dealing with it your life will change for the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by basswipe (Post 1158567)

Completely false on both points.
.
Are you sure or just "pretty sure"?.Big difference between the two...one is an opinion and the other is a fact.

I don’t know about the relative number of immigrants but most drugs come thru ports of entry.
Definition: In general, a port of entry (POE) is a place where one may lawfully enter a country. It typically has border security staff and facilities to check passports and visas, and inspect luggage to assure that contraband is not imported.
When you only check 20% of the trucks cars ships and containers coming into the USA stuff slips through and high value drugs don’t take up that much room.
We’ve been losing the war on drugs for the past 50 years, it’s about time we looked at a different way of fighting it.
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