Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1175884)

You seem to be under the impression that you've said something of substance here. Your opinion about what Trump thinks or knows or is remotely aware of has no substantial importance in this matter. All you've done here is evade the fact that what Trump requested was absolutely legitimate, and replaced that legitimacy with your sarcastic and uninformed opinion. And that is all you could do, in order to maintain some fictitious level of credibility for your previous ignorant comments and opinions.

You not only proclaim that Trump is totally clueless, but must think that the Secretary of State, Trump's lawyers, the State Dept., all Trump advisors, are also clueless. It is their business to know something as basic as to what is legal to do when asking for foreign assistance on ANY matter. These treaties are not some dusty old files hidden in some remote never looked at file. They are paid attention to on a continuing basis when any political or legal matter between countries must be addressed.

When the media sources that you, or the public in general, doesn't tell you what you don't know, you inherently assume there is nothing to know. However, those who expand the variety of media sources are more likely to be informed about things than those who are stuck on their one-sided sources which would rather you didn't know everything you need to know to fully understand an issue. This issue of treaties that allow what Trump asked is probably not discussed by the sources that you get your info from because they would rather that you didn't know and so keep you stuck on the notion that it is illegal or unconstitutional to ask foreign powers to "dig up dirt" on their opponents. That is the preferred level of discussion that gives some appearance of a reason for impeachment.

However, other more honest media have informed those of us who listen to them about the treaties and a great deal of other things that cast a whole different light on the issue.

So it is not that Trump is clueless. It is that you are. Not through any fault of your own, except that your sources are not helping you out.

Your claim that Trump "doesn’t listen to a single advisor who might know" is unsubstantiated nonsense. He has always surrounded himself with "experts" even in his business ventures. He sometimes disagrees with some of them, but he hears them all out. Other sources would have helped you to know some things about Trump that you don't, but your sources would rather that you believe he is all the various boogymen that they've planted in your head.

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1175861)

and he keeps ignoring the fact that Zelensky stated he felt no pressure as it relates to United States aid to Ukraine.

but goat strippers, an anonymous whistleblower with third hand information and a bunch or rabid "impeach the mothe*&^*&*r" democrats say he did....soooooo

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND (Post 1175871)

What are Trump’s kids currently doing? You think Dad’s position and influence help Ivanka’s recent Chinese trademarks?
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1175879)

You say here he's clueless. others here say he has the cunning of a mafia don to deliver such an ominous, veiled threat to Ukraine.

Which is it? Is he Don Corleone, or Fredo? You guys want him to be both, he can't be both.

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1175880)

You really with a straight face can say you are confident Trump has a wealth of political knowledge, especially when it comes to past treaties and agreements, I’d suggest you’d be lying if you tried. I never would suggest he is actually cunning enough to pull this madness together as some diabolical plot, he just flys by the seat of his pants, is raw no filter BS non stop. Why do you think the very best people he had to begin with are long gone?
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Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1175894)

Asking a notoriously totalitarian regime that's in the middle of a mass incarceration of religious and ethnic minorities to "investigate" your political rival?

Very presidential, very conservative, so patriotic.
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Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1175900)

they are just screaming loons...mad about everything...there's not much thinking involved

as bad a trump can be at times, he's still no where near as loathsome as the democrat cast of characters nipping his heels soooo....

Kavanaugh all over again...this is going to be fun!


"The whistleblower who filed a complaint against President Trump that now forms the center of an impeachment inquiry against him is a registered Democrat, according to a report from CNN."

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1175907)

you’re embarrassing yourself.

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Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1175908)

nailed it.

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Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1175908)

nailed it. they say he’s threatening our democracy? it’s the democrats who use superdelegates in their primaries to ignore the will of the voters, its the democrats who are explicitly threatening to restructure the supreme court unless they rule in a way liberals find more agreeable ( so much for separation of powers), its the democrats who dedicated themselves to reversing the 2016 election from the moment that disgusting witch conceded, it’s democrats who constantly silence conservatives for having the temerity to attempt to speak.
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Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman (Post 1175914)

Don't forget eliminate the electoral college and allow minors and illegal immigrants to vote
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Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1175884)

You seem to be under the impression that you've said something of substance here. Your opinion about what Trump thinks or knows or is remotely aware of has no substantial importance in this matter. All you've done here is evade the fact that what Trump requested was absolutely legitimate, and replaced that legitimacy with your sarcastic and uninformed opinion. And that is all you could do, in order to maintain some fictitious level of credibility for your previous ignorant comments and opinions.

You not only proclaim that Trump is totally clueless, but must think that the Secretary of State, Trump's lawyers, the State Dept., all Trump advisors, are also clueless. It is their business to know something as basic as to what is legal to do when asking for foreign assistance on ANY matter. These treaties are not some dusty old files hidden in some remote never looked at file. They are paid attention to on a continuing basis when any political or legal matter between countries must be addressed.

When the media sources that you, or the public in general, doesn't tell you what you don't know, you inherently assume there is nothing to know. However, those who expand the variety of media sources are more likely to be informed about things than those who are stuck on their one-sided sources which would rather you didn't know everything you need to know to fully understand an issue. This issue of treaties that allow what Trump asked is probably not discussed by the sources that you get your info from because they would rather that you didn't know and so keep you stuck on the notion that it is illegal or unconstitutional to ask foreign powers to "dig up dirt" on their opponents. That is the preferred level of discussion that gives some appearance of a reason for impeachment.

However, other more honest media have informed those of us who listen to them about the treaties and a great deal of other things that cast a whole different light on the issue.

So it is not that Trump is clueless. It is that you are. Not through any fault of your own, except that your sources are not helping you out.

Your claim that Trump "doesn’t listen to a single advisor who might know" is unsubstantiated nonsense. He has always surrounded himself with "experts" even in his business ventures. He sometimes disagrees with some of them, but he hears them all out. Other sources would have helped you to know some things about Trump that you don't, but your sources would rather that you believe he is all the various boogymen that they've planted in your head.

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman (Post 1175914)

Don't forget eliminate the electoral college and allow minors and illegal immigrants to vote
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Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1175920)

Text messages between US diplomats and a senior Ukrainian aide released by the House Intelligence Committee show how a potential Ukrainian investigation into the 2016 election was linked to a desired meeting between Ukrainian President and President Trump
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Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1175925)

Your claim it’s a “fact” his request was legal and legit I believe is as wrong as you and the GOP spinning this as a nothing burger. The man has proven he has no issues past, present or future in enlisting foreign powers to interfere in our democracy and elections for personal gain. The “fact” is that is exactly why the founding fathers gave congress a means to remove a president who is abusing his power.
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1175930)

he's the most vulgar person by far to ever hold that office.

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1175939)

I don't know...I heard LBJ was pretty bad

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1175930)

We're going to hold him to a different standard, because he's the most vulgar person by far to ever hold that office.

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1175943)

We The president CAN NOT seek foreign help to interfer or benefit, what is it about that which is not crystal clear to the GOP. I suspect while they remain silent, with only a few stating this is troubling, behind closed doors they are very concerned.

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1175943)

Obama delaying talks due to it being more productive for both parties after an election, is a far cry from Trump asking for help getting elected; .

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1175949)

How about it’s a federal crime to seek and accept foreign help?
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1175950)

I see.

So when the Hilary campaign paid big money for Brits and Russians to make up dirt about Carter Page, and then the Obama Justice Department specifically used that crap to invade his privacy, that was......???

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1175952)

Whataboutism again, come on your party had it's chance and if there was a similar wrong doing, well again; to bad you guys dropped the ball. NOTHING any past president or candidate compares to the lengths this clown will go to gain personal wealth or an advantage in the upcoming election, you know that to be true.

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1175952)

Whataboutism again, come on your party had it's chance and if there was a similar wrong doing, well again; to bad you guys dropped the ball. NOTHING any past president or candidate compares to the lengths this clown will go to gain personal wealth or an advantage in the upcoming election, you know that to be true.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1175953)

GS:!its a crime to ask foreigners for help and receive it

Jim: what about when hilary and obama did it?

GS: that’s whataboutism.

so i can never challenge your notion that trump committed a crime, by pointing to others who got away with similar actions?

interesting way to avoid having to defend yourself.
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1175946)

I don't think that investigating Biden, when there's that much evidence of corruption, is "interfering" with the election. Knowing more facts about what took place, improves our ability to make an informed vote, it doesn't interfere with it.

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles (Post 1175955)

When you run out of lies you claim Whataboutism.
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Originally Posted by spence (Post 1175958)

Show us the evidence Jim.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1175950)

I see.

So when the Hilary campaign paid big money for Brits and Russians to make up dirt about Carter Page, and then the Obama Justice Department specifically used that crap to invade his privacy, that was......???

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1175962)

the Republicans originally started it — dirt on Donald Trump, those are the facts.

you push so much fake information. And deny transcripts written words and audio . But repeat over and over false claims and debunked stories its astonishing.. for you truth isn't truth.. Truth its just an inconvenience
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Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1175925)

Your claim it’s a “fact” his request was legal and legit I believe is as wrong as you and the GOP spinning this as a nothing burger.

The fact is that the chief executive of a country, or his executive branch legal apparatus, such as the DOJ, or personal legal representatives have the right by treaty to ask the chief executive of a foreign country to assist in determining, in an ongoing investigation of corruption, if any illegal or criminal or corrupt acts occurred either by that countries legal apparatus, or by any American citizens in coordination with that country in regard to the investigation. It is a fact that Trump asked for such assistance. Whether he did so in order to interfere with our coming election is the charge in dispute. That charge is an assumption not a fact. It would have to be proved that he made the request for the specific intention to sway the election, and to disprove that the request was for assistance in an ongoing investigation. That would be very difficult to prove beyond speculation.

The only fact at this point is that he made the request as the Chief executive officer, and it was perfectly, as such, legal for him to do so.

The man has proven he has no issues past, present or future in enlisting foreign powers to interfere in our democracy and elections for personal gain.

Actually, that was not proven by the Mueller investigation, your opinion notwithstanding.

The “fact” is that is exactly why the founding fathers gave congress a means to remove a president who is abusing his power.

Originally Posted by Got Stripers (Post 1175925)

The “fact” is that is exactly why the founding fathers gave congress a means to remove a president who is abusing his power.

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Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1175967)

ok you tell me what’s fake here...

team hilary paid brit’s and russians to dig up dirt on carter page.

the obama administrations justice department used that dirt as part of multiple FISA warrants against page.

if it matters, page has never been charged.

you tell us what’s false there.
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