|
Quote:
i dare you to tell us what the differences were, without you looking it up. inaction? for the 20th time, when trump restricted travel from china on day one, he was called a racist and nationalist. Doesn’t matter what trump does, you’ll say it was wrong. |
Quote:
Try looking at his actions in their entirety, I had to look it up, you suggest the last administration of allowing people to die.. facts matter read the time line ... This thing isn't over , let's hope Trumps denials and his change of mind , haven't come to late.. not just the human costs |
Quote:
again, no matter what trump does, it’s wrong. it doesn’t matter what he does, you guys reflexively criticize it. i’m not saying he did everything right. his speech the day before the dow dropped 2,000 was very sloppy. but somehow you all know he blew it. if he did exactly what you think he should have done, would you be capable of saying so? of course not. as an aside, the market liquidity problem was a lot worse than o was aware, or the fed wouldn’t have done what they did. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Quote:
Get back on the meds Bitchslappedboy Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Quote:
Trump* can’t brag about stocks or the great economy. He can’t say he is going to drain the swamp bc his admin is swampier. He can’t say he is going to bring down debt bc he blew it up without cause and now he’s adding way more He can’t say Mexico is going to pay for a wall. What does he have left to run on? Is it gonna be dead elderly and look at the Medicaid savings? The incompetence that I said was there is now out for all to see. His first move in the corona virus debacle was his only correct one, after that he only did things to benefit himself. And his prior destruction of all things Obama removed much needed national security safeguards. Now we pay the price for electing a clown But my 401K The Asian markets are getting hammered We’ll see what ours think of Trump*’s lies tomorrow We will be the new Greece if he has his way. He’s very happy Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
This too shall pass.
I am confident that Trump will be re-elected. Then you may understand this never had anything to do with the market. Try to keep up. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Quote:
Luckily 60% of Americans are not as simple as you. Trump* used the growth tools to prop up the elderly bull market Now he will save us like he saved his casino, airline, university etc. Little over 300 days till the next inauguration and what Trump* will do in his last 60 ought to scare any thinking person Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
I agree in regards to the virus Bitchslappedboy.
The other gibberish is just more of the same from you 🤡🍔🤡 Meanwhile, it’s a great time to buy that vacation home you have been saving for as interest rates are historically low.👍🏿 Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Pete, our economy is fundamentally strong. I’m going to
take a stab that you didnt see the february jobs report? The market is dropping like a rock because we were hit by an outside influence we had nothing to do with. people are going to spend a lot less in the coming weeks, meaning earnings will be down. i can’t imagine owning a restaurant right now. You’re saying this is trumps fault? Really? How do you suppose we’d be better off exactly, if Hilary had won? How do you suppose our economy would be better off right at this moment, if hilary had won? Can you be specific? You’re rooting for many deaths and an economic collapse. because if we come out relatively un-scathed, trump could possibly be seen as having managed us through this crisis well. And we all know that your bitch-slapped psyche cannot process that possibility. Politics and economics aren’t for you. Stick to calling people’s mothers whores, you’re better at that. You’re the rodeo clown here. the most reasonable liberal here by far is rockhound, and he has you blocked. You might ask yourself why he did that. The most logical and thoughtful liberal here... Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Quote:
|
Quote:
The president responded: “No. Not at all. And we have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” By this point, the seriousness of the virus was becoming clearer. It had spread from China to four other countries. China was starting to take drastic measures and was on the verge of closing off the city of Wuhan. In the weeks that followed, Trump faced a series of choices. He could have taken aggressive measures to slow the spread of the virus. He could have insisted that the United States ramp up efforts to produce test kits. He could have emphasized the risks that the virus presented and urged Americans to take precautions if they had reason to believe they were sick. He could have used the powers of the presidency to reduce the number of people who would ultimately get sick. He did none of those things. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Trump actually said he didn’t know people died with the flu and for something he claimed was under complete control, it sure doesn’t look that way. Charlie Baker shutting down everything statewide and banning gatherings over 25 is going to really hurt the economy and especially service worker’s relying on a paycheck or tip money to pay the rent.
|
Which leader has done a good job preparing for this? Please reveal the name of this well known head of State. I know there is somebody you can’t wait to say ....
Somebody out there surely made this look easy and they have a country full of safe citizens as a result. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
I don’t think any leader would welcome this and all would struggle with how to gear up to address it, that is were the similarities end with Trump. He has shown time and time again how stupid he is, that his messaging was more geared toward making light of it to keep his base in camp and to stand in front of a national address and contradict your own scientific experts is so bad. He has shown he is more concerned with how the market is doing than anyone in this country he took an oath to protect and serve. Self service is all he knows.
|
The beat goes on. Everybody feels compelled to blame. What a world.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Since she learned of the coronavirus outbreak, Amy Ho’s daily routine has gotten a bit more complicated. Coming home now involves sanitizing her shoes, washing her hands with soap and water, taking off her medical mask and changing her clothes.
The Hong Kong resident ventures outside only by necessity. She walks to and from work. Goes to the grocery store once a week. That’s it. Her teenage daughter has only left their apartment twice since the end of January. “It’s annoying, sure. But our health is the most important thing,” she says. Over Easter, the family looked forward to vacationing in the U.K. and Italy. But with the virus raging, they canceled. Her precautions may sound drastic, but they’re hardly unique in a city that was among the first to be swept up in the global coronavirus crisis. That Hong Kong has become a lodestar for its ability to seemingly keep the disease at bay, for now at least, is no accident: it’s desperate to avoid repeating the nightmare of a 2003 epidemic. Globally, SARS or severe acute respiratory syndrome, infected over 8,000 and killed 774, including 299 in Hong Kong. Though SARS devastated many Asian metropolises, in its wake, some doubled down on preparing for the next crisis. “Somewhat perversely, we can look at SARS as the dress rehearsal,” says Jeremy Lim, co-director of the Leadership Institute for Global Health Transformation at the National University of Singapore. “The experience was raw, and very, very visceral. And on the back of [it], better systems were put in place.” Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan have been hailed for using those hard-won lessons to combat the new coronavirus—officially COVID-19 and a relative of SARS. It’s still too early for anywhere to declare victory just yet. But against the odds, these enclaves have succeeded at keeping their virus numbers low, despite their links to China. Perhaps governments in North America and Europe, which are now bearing the brunt of the pandemic, can emulate their best practices, and turn the tide on an infection spreading rapidly through the global population. Act quickly For Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong, the story could easily have been one of catastrophe. The novel coronavirus emerged just in time for Lunar New Year, when millions travel across the region in the world’s largest annual human migration. All three territories are closely interconnected with mainland China, with direct flights to Wuhan, the outbreak’s epicenter. |
Quote:
|
Late January
On the same day that Trump was dismissing the risks on CNBC, Tom Frieden, who ran the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for eight years, wrote an op-ed for the health care publication Stat. In it, Frieden warned that the virus would continue spreading. “We need to learn — and fast — about how it spreads,” he wrote. It was one of many such warnings from prominent experts in late January. Many focused on the need to expand the capacity to test for the virus. In a Wall Street Journal article titled, “Act Now to Prevent an American Epidemic,” Luciana Borio and Scott Gottlieb — both former Trump administration officials — wrote: If public-health authorities don’t interrupt the spread soon, the virus could infect many thousands more around the globe, disrupt air travel, overwhelm health care systems, and, worst of all, claim more lives. The good news: There’s still an opening to prevent a grim outcome. … But authorities can’t act quickly without a test that can diagnose the condition rapidly. Trump, however, repeatedly told Americans that there was no reason to worry. On Jan. 24, he tweeted, “It will all work out well.” On Jan. 28, he retweeted a headline from One America News, an outlet with a history of spreading false conspiracy theories: “Johnson & Johnson to create coronavirus vaccine.” On Jan. 30, during a speech in Michigan, he said: “We have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five. And those people are all recuperating successfully.” That same day, the World Health Organization declared coronavirus to be a “public-health emergency of international concern.” It announced 7,818 confirmed cases around the world. |
I don't blame Pres. Trump for some of the slow movement. I do blame him for the lies and down playing the seriousness of the virus. He did cut the pandemic team.
He has no empathy or compassion and that came across in his speech (which some are saying was the worse speech since Carter's Malaise speech). Also, they should not have said that all communication had to be cleared by the WH. It was inexcusable for him to say he didn't want the Americans on the cruise ship brought back to their country bc he didn't want the #s to go higher. Fauci sb the face of the admin. as he has empathy, compassion, smarts and doesn't lie. A Complete List of Trump’s Attempts to Play Down Coronavirus He could have taken action. He didn’t. By David Leonhardt Opinion Columnist • March 15, 2020 • o President Trump made his first public comments about the coronavirus on Jan. 22, in a television interview from Davos with CNBC’s Joe Kernen. The first American case had been announced the day before, and Kernen asked Trump, “Are there worries about a pandemic at this point?” The president responded: “No. Not at all. And we have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” By this point, the seriousness of the virus was becoming clearer. It had spread from China to four other countries. China was starting to take drastic measures and was on the verge of closing off the city of Wuhan. In the weeks that followed, Trump faced a series of choices. He could have taken aggressive measures to slow the spread of the virus. He could have insisted that the United States ramp up efforts to produce test kits. He could have emphasized the risks that the virus presented and urged Americans to take precautions if they had reason to believe they were sick. He could have used the powers of the presidency to reduce the number of people who would ultimately get sick. He did none of those things. I’ve reviewed all of his public statements and actions on coronavirus over the last two months, and they show a president who put almost no priority on public health. Trump’s priorities were different: Making the virus sound like a minor nuisance. Exaggerating his administration’s response. Blaming foreigners and, anachronistically, the Obama administration. Claiming incorrectly that the situation was improving. Trying to cheer up stock market investors. (It was fitting that his first public comments were from Davos and on CNBC.) Now that the severity of the virus is undeniable, Trump is already trying to present an alternate history of the last two months. Below are the facts — a timeline of what the president was saying, alongside statements from public-health experts as well as data on the virus. Late January On the same day that Trump was dismissing the risks on CNBC, Tom Frieden, who ran the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for eight years, wrote an op-ed for the health care publication Stat. In it, Frieden warned that the virus would continue spreading. “We need to learn — and fast — about how it spreads,” he wrote. It was one of many such warnings from prominent experts in late January. Many focused on the need to expand the capacity to test for the virus. In a Wall Street Journal article titled, “Act Now to Prevent an American Epidemic,” Luciana Borio and Scott Gottlieb — both former Trump administration officials — wrote: If public-health authorities don’t interrupt the spread soon, the virus could infect many thousands more around the globe, disrupt air travel, overwhelm health care systems, and, worst of all, claim more lives. The good news: There’s still an opening to prevent a grim outcome. … But authorities can’t act quickly without a test that can diagnose the condition rapidly. Trump, however, repeatedly told Americans that there was no reason to worry. On Jan. 24, he tweeted, “It will all work out well.” On Jan. 28, he retweeted a headline from One America News, an outlet with a history of spreading false conspiracy theories: “Johnson & Johnson to create coronavirus vaccine.” On Jan. 30, during a speech in Michigan, he said: “We have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five. And those people are all recuperating successfully.” That same day, the World Health Organization declared coronavirus to be a “public-health emergency of international concern.” It announced 7,818 confirmed cases around the world. Jan. 31 Trump took his only early, aggressive action against the virus on Jan. 31: He barred most foreigners who had recently visited China from entering the United States. It was a good move. But it was only one modest move, not the sweeping solution that Trump portrayed it to be. It didn’t apply to Americans who had been traveling in China, for example. And while it generated some criticism from Democrats, it wasn’t nearly as unpopular as Trump has since suggested. Two days after announcing the policy, Trump went on Fox News and exaggerated the impact in an interview with Sean Hannity. “Coronavirus,” Hannity said. “How concerned are you?” Trump replied: “Well, we pretty much shut it down coming in from China. We have a tremendous relationship with China, which is a very positive thing. Getting along with China, getting along with Russia, getting along with these countries.” By the time of that interview, the number of confirmed coronavirus cases around the world had surged to 14,557, a near doubling over the previous three days. Early February On Feb. 5, the C.D.C. began shipping coronavirus test kits to laboratories around the country. But the tests suffered from a technical flaw and didn’t produce reliable results, labs discovered. The technical problems were understandable: Creating a new virus test is not easy. What’s less understandable, experts say, is why the Trump administration officials were so lax about finding a work-around, even as other countries were creating reliable tests. The Trump administration could have begun to use a functioning test from the World Health Organization, but didn’t. It could have removed regulations that prevented private hospitals and labs from quickly developing their own tests, but didn’t. The inaction meant that the United States fell behind South Korea, Singapore and China in fighting the virus. “We just twiddled our thumbs as the coronavirus waltzed in,” William Hanage, a Harvard epidemiologist, wrote. Trump, for his part, spent these first weeks of February telling Americans that the problem was going away. On Feb. 10, he repeatedly said — in a speech to governors, at a campaign rally and in an interview with Trish Regan of Fox Business — that warm spring weather could kill the virus. “Looks like by April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away,” he told the rally. On Feb. 19, he told a Phoenix television station, “I think the numbers are going to get progressively better as we go along.” Four days later, he pronounced the situation “very much under control,” and added: “We had 12, at one point. And now they’ve gotten very much better. Many of them are fully recovered.” His message was clear: Coronavirus is a small problem, and it is getting smaller. In truth, the shortage of testing meant that the country didn’t know how bad the problem was. All of the available indicators suggested it was getting worse, rapidly. On Feb. 23, the World Health Organization announced that the virus was in 30 countries, with 78,811 confirmed cases, a more than fivefold increase over the previous three weeks. Late February Trump seemed largely uninterested in the global virus statistics during this period, but there were other indicators — stock-market indexes — that mattered a lot to him. And by the last week of February, those market indexes were falling. The president reacted by adding a new element to his public remarks. He began blaming others. He criticized CNN and MSNBC for “panicking markets.” He said at a South Carolina rally — falsely — that “the Democrat policy of open borders” had brought the virus into the country. He lashed out at “Do Nothing Democrat comrades.” He tweeted about “Cryin’ Chuck Schumer,” mocking Schumer for arguing that Trump should be more aggressive in fighting the virus. The next week, Trump would blame an Obama administration regulation for slowing the production of test kits. There was no truth to the charge. Throughout late February, Trump also continued to claim the situation was improving. On Feb. 26, he said: “We’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up.” On Feb. 27, he predicted: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” On Feb. 29, he said a vaccine would be available “very quickly” and “very rapidly” and praised his administration’s actions as “the most aggressive taken by any country.” None of these claims were true. By the end of February, there were 85,403 confirmed cases, in 55 countries around the world. Early March Almost two decades ago, during George W. Bush’s presidency, the federal government developed guidelines for communicating during a public-health crisis. Among the core principles are “be first,” “be right,” “be credible,” “show respect” and “promote action.” But the Trump administration’s response to coronavirus, as a Washington Post news story put it, is “breaking almost every rule in the book.” The inconsistent and sometimes outright incorrect information coming from the White House has left Americans unsure of what, if anything, to do. By early March, experts already were arguing for aggressive measures to slow the virus’s spread and avoid overwhelming the medical system. The presidential bully pulpit could have focused people on the need to change their behavior in a way that no private citizen could have. Trump could have specifically encouraged older people — at most risk from the virus — to be careful. Once again, he chose not to take action. Instead, he suggested on multiple occasions that the virus was less serious than the flu. “We’re talking about a much smaller range” of deaths than from the flu, he said on March 2. “It’s very mild,” he told Hannity on March 4. On March 7, he said, “I’m not concerned at all.” On March 10, he promised: “It will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.” The first part of March was also when more people began to understand that the United States had fallen behind on testing, and Trump administration officials responded with untruths. Alex Azar, the secretary of health and human services, told ABC, “There is no testing kit shortage, nor has there ever been.” Trump, while touring the C.D.C. on March 6, said, “Anybody that wants a test can get a test.” That C.D.C. tour was a microcosm of Trump’s entire approach to the crisis. While speaking on camera, he made statements that were outright wrong, like the testing claim. He brought up issues that had nothing to do with the virus, like his impeachment. He made clear that he cared more about his image than about people’s well-being, by explaining that he favored leaving infected passengers on a cruise ship so they wouldn’t increase the official number of American cases. He also suggested that he knew as much as any scientist: I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it. Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president. On March 10, the World Health Organization reported 113,702 cases of the virus in more than 100 countries. Mid-March and beyond On the night of March 11, Trump gave an Oval Office address meant to convey seriousness. It included some valuable advice, like the importance of hand-washing. But it also continued many of the old patterns of self-congratulation, blame-shifting and misinformation. Afterward, Trump aides corrected three different misstatements. This pattern has continued in the days since the Oval Office address. Trump now seems to understand that coronavirus isn’t going away anytime soon. But he also seems to view it mostly as a public-relations emergency for himself rather than a public-health emergency for the country. On Sunday, he used his Twitter feed to lash out at Schumer and Joe Biden and to praise Michael Flynn, the former Trump aide who pleaded guilty to lying to the F.B.I. Around the world, the official virus count has climbed above 142,000. In the United States, scientists expect that between tens of millions and 215 million Americans will ultimately be infected, and the death toll could range from the tens of thousands to 1.7 million. At every point, experts have emphasized that the country could reduce those terrible numbers by taking action. And at almost every point, the president has ignored their advice and insisted, “It’s going to be just fine.” |
Quote:
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Quote:
have you ever criticized Pete? Because selective outrage, is fake outrage. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump BIGGEST STOCK MARKET RISE IN HISTORY YESTERDAY! 8:08 AM · Mar 14, 2020·Twitter for iPhone ‘Hi...I’m Donald Trump*...and when the Dow goes down 6000 points in 10 days...including the worst one-day drop in history, ending the 11 year Bull Market...you won’t hear a PEEP from me. But the one day it goes up? I brag! Because I’m a sociopath... |
Quote:
he’s calling for zero percent interest on student loans, and income protection for those who loses their income. How is that evidence that he only cares about he markets? Please explain. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Hi my name is Bitchslappedboy and I can find anything about Trump to criticize. I do it so much that people who are like minded have blocked me.
I am NOT a sociopath, I am a 🤡 Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Quote:
I don't read most of Pete's posts but of the ones I read many (most?) don't personally insult anyone other than Trump. Sea Dangles will than insult him bc he can't think of anything smart to say. So Pete takes more crap than anyone here. Edit - After I posted this I saw Chris added his usual classlessness to this forum. |
The market viewed that the fed panicked with their rate cut. I wonder if the Fed did it bc Trump was threatening to fire Powell?
|
You really need to look at the drastic measures that China took to foresee what we are in for.
After months of inaction, the Trump* administration is finally taking limited action. This administration's inaction will be responsible and "I don't take responsibility at all," won't fly. Coronavirus: China’s economy suffers dramatic collapse in January, February in warning to rest of world Combined data for January and February showed that industrial production, retail sales and asset investment all declined far more than analysts expected Lockdowns to control the coronavirus proved to be a constraint to economic growth, but with China now in recovery, data suggests what rest of the world could expect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L95RL8xc-D4 |
Despite all Jim's claims, I won't be happy if the Dow reaches 14K but it certainly looks like Trump*'s incompetence, lies, team of yes men and his son-in law will get us there.
You would think that Trump* would learn that Wall St won’t keep buying tickets to his show. But real coordinated fiscal policy, monetary policy & being completely transparent about the public health emergency would be very well received. But Trump* is banking on a miracle, latest episode to be aired this afternoon. A 3:30 p.m. White House briefing sets up a repeat of this from Friday, where the positive stuff all comes before the closing bell and then things go off the rails. Remarkable how quickly Trump* has become basically irrelevant to the crisis. Everyone recognizes he doesn’t have a clue, is not up to the job, and can’t be looked to for leadership or guidance. A complete and utter failure of Job #1 for a president. |
“months of inaction”. he restricted travel
from china very early on, and was attacked for doing so. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
pete, never once saw you post about the benefits of the market going up for the past three years, but the lefties can’t stop talking about the drop. If it’s not politically motivated, then why is that?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Quote:
|
He continually claims that Trump* was made a victim for the only timely correct step he made and the only backup for his claim is the Daily Caller, Trumplican media crying victim as usual.
I have said since he started that Trump* and his gang of incompetents are using all the recession fighting tools to save the ailing bull market. He did, they are gone, the Bear is here, triggered by Corona and we are now following the path of Japan into the Great Stagnation. |
President Donald Trump has made a number of misleading statements about his decision on Jan. 31 to impose travel restrictions related to the novel coronavirus epidemic.
Trump has referred to the travel restrictions as a “travel ban.” There isn’t an outright ban, as there are exceptions, including for Americans and their family members. Trump said he was “bold” in imposing travel restrictions even though “everybody said, it’s too early, it’s too soon” and “a lot of people that work on this stuff almost exclusively” told him “don’t do it.” Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said the decision stemmed from “the uniform recommendations of the career public health officials here at HHS.” Trump said Democrats “loudly criticized and protested” his announced travel restrictions, and that they “called me a racist because I made that decision.” Trump is overstating Democratic opposition. None of the party’s congressional leaders and none of the Democratic candidates running for president have directly criticized that decision, though at least two Democrats have. Trump said the travel restrictions “saved a lot of lives” and reduced U.S. COVID-19 cases to “a very small number.” But experts say there isn’t enough data to make that determination. A study in the journal Science found the various travel limitations across the globe initially helped to slow the spread, but the number of cases worldwide rose anyway because the virus had already begun traveling undetected internationally. Azar declared a public health emergency for the novel coronavirus on Jan. 31, and announced the travel restrictions to and from China, effective Feb. 2. On Feb. 29, Trump expanded those travel restrictions to Iran. Trump has repeatedly boasted that his decision to impose the travel restrictions was bold and worked. But his rhetoric has sometimes stretched the facts. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/th...-restrictions/ Again lets hope its not to little to late The captain is responsible for his and his people's inactions or actions during a crisis... this has been true thru History , but History only applies to Trump if its positive. Trump supporters prove this daily Demtard Playbook 1) Create a problem, PANIC 2) Government plan to the rescue 3) Nonstop talk about it 4) Plan is ineffective at solving the problem 5) Rinse and Repeat :claps::claps::claps::claps: |
Quote:
just google it. or search this thread. after you’re done rubbing one out to your obama poster. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
The Dem. mayor of Beachwood Ohio (Pop 657) called Trump a racist and a xenophobe. That is good enough for Jim.
|
Quote:
more than 10,000 americans when obama was potus, and that didn’t get anywhere near this level of media hysteria. Please tell us which if those statements are wrong? you want to say he’s made too many statements that were incorrect, i agree. you want to say he’s not the right guy to restore calm and confidence, i agree. That doesn’t mean the media salivating over the opportunity to use this to help him lose the election. they’re deranged with hate. look at you here. you said obama’s incarceration of children wasn’t problematic, but Trumps is, because of the numbers. All i did was ask you what the maximum number of child detention is before it’s barbaric, and you responded by insulting my mother? is that rational? Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Quote:
A speck of honesty asking too much? Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Quote:
Am I mistaken or are you lying? |
Quote:
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Quote:
|
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:51 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com