Navy Chief,could you comment on our military preparedness before year 2000?

good point! :laughs: we're much more ready now thats for shure

On those making 200 grand a year.

Does it make sense to give huge tax cuts to the very rich while we have to borrow to pay for body armor for the troops?

It's bad enough our military is way overextended, but we shouldn't have to deepen the defecit just to give them basic equipment.

-spence

Eben,didn't want you to miss this so you know where i'm coming from.:) I'm probably the only guy who ever qouted his own quote:laughs:

Lets see....There where a couple years that I wasn't sure I was going to get a paycheck at the end of the month.

We decommissioned more ships than we built.

Promotions were the lowest they had been in history.

Sometimes we didn't have money for fuel. Therefore our readiness was down because of lack of training. Sometimes we didn't have money for regular upkeep and maintainance.

Now, the ships that where commissioned are far more capable than the old ones. Most of those were funded during the George Sr administration. Being in the Navy during the Clinton administration was really aggravating.

As far as the military being overextended. I'm not really sure about that. The downsizing that's been going on under Clinton and also George Sr always had the Reserves and Guard units as an intergal part of the military. These units have been called up now and it's become a big issue. The active guys have been overworked. The last 3 years on my last ship we were underway over 700 days and did an 8 month deployment, preceeded by a 3 week inport period. But I, for one, understood the situation and dealt with it. #1 priority Mission Accomplishment, #2 priority, the troops. I think most of the troopers sucked it up also and were proud to serve in a time of crisis.

I hear you loud and clear, but my agruement is that its not our lifestyle they hate its the fact that we meddle with thier lifestyle.... Osama's manefesto or delcaration of war that he posted after 9/11 said 2 main things.. we convince Israel give palestine their land back and we pull out of the holy lands of Saudi Arabia and there will be no more attacks...
I dont expect us to give in to the demands of terrorists, but hey, the writing is on the wall here.. there is 'Compassion' and there is comprimise.

Eben

Your wrong on that one. It is our lifestyle that they hate. They try to emulate it, but can't because their goverments won't allow it. Therefore they get mad about it.

Iran wants to be a democracy, they want what we have. They can't have it because of the islamic ruling counsel. The rest of the Gulf countries all run into the same issues, only to generally lesser extents.

Go over there, see for yourself. You will agree with me.

perhaps i will when the draft is up and running in a few years:smash:

Volunteer Shipmate !!!!!!

Be a man, the chicks love it.

Don't let other people protect your rights for you, protect them yourself. See the world, meet interesting people and kill them. It's the American way. Be a part of the solution, not the problem.

You bust on W. because he didn't serve when he had the chance, you have the chance, so serve.

Good medical (for you and the family). 30 days paid vacation a year. 20 year retirement. Education benefits. Travel. Fishing off the fantail.

I spent 3 years as a recruiter, can you tell?

I also wanted to mention that the Army and the Air Force has been having deployment problems forever. The Navy tells them to go to 6 month tours, but they don't listen. The Navy and the Corps been doing it effectively for decades.

Sorry Cheif... i've never had any problems with the ladies and i have a great carreer. Maybe all those people who have lost thier manufacturing jobs to China want something to fight for...

oh....thou shalt not kill. thats a very important rule.

I figure you would say that.

:rotfl: touche'

Speaking of Generals....Anybody following Gen William Boykin? He is a real life satire. Ol Bill is a pentagon general who is going around to churches saying that our battle in the middle East is " A Christian Army against Satan." Rumsfeld continues to praise him even though Bush quietly claims the war to be non sectarian. It's kind of like the Swift boat guys, Say one thing and do another. The my god is bigger than his God bit is something Boykin said in Somalia in 1993.
heres the story

I'm enjoying the back and forth with respect.We could teach Washington a thing or two.

Chief one of the prombems with the Theocracies in most of the middle east is the muslims who we call radicals are what the Koran would call true believers. Because the roots of Islam would have all infadels killed for disagreeing with them. So we can only hope that the marginal believers become rule, unlike the Saudi Arabians who are at the very hub of islam. I find it strange that some of our leaders are in bed with the heart and soul of Islam where many of the so called "radicals" come from. Wouldn't we be well off to try and force democracy there as well? or would that be biting the hand that feeds certain American oil interests?
I don't want to sound discouraged but I think that we will see Armageddon befor we see a victory in the war against terrorism. I'm not saying not to meet out justice where it is deserved though. I'm just not to optimistic in the outcome.

by the way, I'm Armand T and I approve of this Message! LOL:laughs: :laughs: :laughs:

Eben I just have to correct one thing you put my god..his God, it should be my God...his god. thanks :)

This is one of the fundamental problems. Until the Saudis reform the official Government position on Wahhabisim we're all screwed. Seem to remember the Bush family being pretty close wink, wink, nudge, nudge...

-spence

Here is an editorial piece that is put out as a news peice, but I like it anyway:
http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0903-04.htm

I saw it and understood it right away while watching the convention. I also know that many (likely the vast majority) don't know and understand it. Shameful to tell half truths, it's paramount to half lies isn't it???

well shoot... a typo. I dont mean to disrespect God in anyway, but i thought it interesting to point out the different levels of this 'war on terrorism'.. It brings me back to Bush standing on the smouldering ruins of the World TradeCenter calling for a 'Crusade'.

Eben, Think of all the cool sand you could get over there for your glass blowing.

That General is allowed to do that, as long as he is not in uniform. I am allowed to go to war protest or political conventions, but I am not allowed to wear my uniform or make official statements. Then again, I don't make official statements anyways. If I know this, why doesn't the General.

RI Popper I agree with you. Theocracies will not dissolve in the middle east (would give up a crown?) They will slowly go away. UAE is on the verge of democracy, as is Iran and Qatar. Oman and Saudi will be the last.

I don't think that Islam is our enemy. Most folks in the mid east believe that Osama and Hussien are freaks.

Well just hope that the USA doesn't end up standing for the "Un-united States of America". because with all the name calling on television and in the halls of Washington. we are looking like those we laugh at in asia for having fist fights in their parliments.

This is what's important, our children and their future. Different people believe there are different ways to achieve safety for them, but so long as one school of thought doesn't so arrogantly believe they are the only right way and act unilaterally, we'll be alright.

You hit the nail on the head,and i believe after all is said and done, the American people will rise above the frey, and do the right thing to protect our children and their future. The age old problems can all be traced back to selfcenterdness.

there ya go... before all the crap with the USSR and afganistan, there was a villiage that had a glassblower who blew glass using a ak47 gun barrell to blow the glass, and horse dung to fire his furnace made of mud and clay the villiage people would gather quartz pebbles from the river, sand from the beaches of the river and burn plants to make a form of ash... I dont know what happened to him, but if you go to the Corning Museum of glass there is a great video of him doing his thing..
sand is only a part of the puzzle to make the glass i use today in my furnace..
i also use soda ash and limestone to bring the melting temps down to a managable temp.. if I just melted sand i would be making fused quartz which melts some where around 4000° (i think) my glass melts at 2300° and has a working temp of 2000°

:hs: