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he shouldn't have a problem in his political dialogue now. |
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the good news for ANY future hopeful is that when Obama is done lowering the bar for discourse and denigrating the office, just about ANYone will be a vast improvement... |
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So it's not that his agenda is ruinous and destructive, no no, it cannot be that. It has to be that tens of millions of regular Americans just aren't sophisticated enough to know what's really good for us. Spence, can I ask you somehting? Are you aware of what's happening with the European economies right now? Given that those economies are all on the edge of collapse, why should I buy into Obama's view that a huge federal government, funded by European-like tax rates, is the way to prosperity? If that sort of western european socialism is failing everywhere, how is it going to work here? Or am I wrong? If Obama's view of Utopia is not similar to western European socialism, how is it different? |
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Obama can't speak to school kids without his teleprompter, and he's a brilliant orator. Without his teleprompter, he once said, on tape, that America has 57 states (which obviously doesn't make him an idiot, it was just a mistake). Again, you criticize Palin, and your Messiah gets a pass, for the same thing... |
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Spence, you really, REALLY think that all Rev Wright did was "talk about Jesus"? When he claimed that the US Government invented the AIDS virus with the specific intent of eliminating blacks from the face of the Earth, where was the Jesus reference? When he referred to our country as "the U.S. of KKK", where was the Jesus reference? When he said that we got what we deserved on 09/11 (when he said Americans chickens simply came home to roost that day), where was the Jesus reference? If all Wright did was talk about Jesus, I don't think it would have been an issue. "talking about Jesus". That makes about as much sense as boiling down Osama Bin Laden's life mission to merely "talking about Allah, nothing more". Spence, have you been painting inside with the windows shut? You need to open the windows a bit. How old are you? Does your Mommy know you're on the Internet? |
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Jesus has the BEST weed.
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Man, Jim in Ct is getting fired up. its awesome.
If you're ever in MA, let me know, I like to buy you a few beers! |
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I can't pass this one up. I know there is a lot of negative, potentially racist comments said by Wright, and make no attempt to justify or applaud/condemn them. BUT... this one was such a talking point with the "Obama hates America crowd' that I can't not paste this. I will add, that as a full blown Agnostic, former Catholic, I know many people who sit in the Catholic church every Sunday but do not believe or agree with every single statement said by the priest/minister, and suspect that is the same for many people of many faiths. However, as an Obama supporter in '08, I don't like the fact, that he just didn't switch churches, however I suspect it was a political move to not lose his base when he was running in Chicago. As far as it being a tired thread, it has been discussed here in previous posts, and I didn't want to rehash my arguments. Whats next? Birth certificates? Spence just turned 40. I know because there was a surprise party his former fishing partners 9since he doesn't actually fish anymore) weren't invited to :love::D:D:D:D Below was pasted from a Op-ed by Roland Martin, CNN. Bold emphasis added by me. "I have now actually listened to the sermon Rev. Wright gave after September 11 titled, "The Day of Jerusalem's Fall." It was delivered on Sept. 16, 2001. ALT TEXT One of the most controversial statements in this sermon was when he mentioned "chickens coming home to roost." He was actually quoting Edward Peck, former U.S. Ambassador to Iraq and deputy director of President Reagan's terrorism task force, who was speaking on FOX News. That's what he told the congregation. He was quoting Peck as saying that America's foreign policy has put the nation in peril: "I heard Ambassador Peck on an interview yesterday did anybody else see or hear him? He was on FOX News, this is a white man, and he was upsetting the FOX News commentators to no end, he pointed out, a white man, an ambassador, he pointed out that what Malcolm X said when he was silenced by Elijah Mohammad was in fact true, he said Americas chickens, are coming home to roost.”" I guess Edward peck hates America too.... |
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"this one was such a talking point with the "Obama hates America crowd'" I'm part of that crowd. Obama's spiritual mentor for 20 years, Rev Wright, is a deranged racist who clearly hates this country. Obama's political mentor, Bill Ayers, is a deranged would-be mass-murderer who clearly hates this country. Obama's wife said, after he got the nomination, that for the first time in her adult life, she was proud of her country. If Obama's lifelong pastor, political mentor, and wife clearly have major issues with this country, is it unreasonable to assume he agrees with that sentiment? Throw in his European speech tours where all he did was apologize for all of America's faults, and it gives me more reason to doubt his love for a country, a country for which I buried 2 teenagers who were killed under my command in Iraq. "I know many people who sit in the Catholic church every Sunday but do not believe or agree with every single statement said by the priest/minister" I'm a lifelong devout Catholic. I've been to Mass between 30 and 50 times a year for the last 25 years. I have never heard any parish priest consistently say anything as remotely offensive as what that kook preached. So if you want to compare the Catholic faith, to which I have dedicated much of my adult life, to black liberation theology, please provide some support. Otherwise please admit that those 2 "religions" are not remotely comparable. One is based on love and truth, one is based on hate and lies. "I suspect it was a political move to not lose his base when he was running in Chicago. " You may be right. And if you are right (that Obama didn't like what Wright was saying, but he wanted people to THINK he liked it), what does that say about Obama? Either Obama agrees with that crap, or he was pretending to agree with that crap for political gain. There simply is not a third alternative, and both choices say something awful about the man. If John McCain sat in at Klan rallies for 20 years, but he was just "pretending" to be a member so those guys would vote for him, you'd be OK with that? "Whats next? Birth certificates? " I never claimed he wasn't born here. I hate the man, but my hatred is based on truthful things about him, not made up stuff. "I guess Edward peck hates America too" I don't know who he is, so I have no basis to conclude anything... |
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And I'll be happy to buy a few beers, too. :grins: RIJIMMY, where have you been? Seems like you haven't been in here as much lately. |
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Are they comparable? Change my wording to Mormon, or Pentecostal, I don't care, the premise is the same. Do you believe 100% with your religion no questions asked and no disagreements? Do you stay in the church. I am not justifying some of the racial comments made, but I did provide context about the 9/11 line and you didn't even acknowledge that you brought it up out of context. I left out the link by mistake before. It is below. As far as your time in Iraq, I have more than once responded to your post, with the fact that I 110% respect your service to your country, period. Quote:
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/2...ts-911-sermon/ |
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No, it's NOT the same, not until you can show us a real-life Mormon or Pentecostal minister who said things as offensive as Wright, as consistently as he did. Until you do that, you are making up hypotheticals, much like the "birthers" you mocked before. "Do you believe 100 percent; with your religion no questions asked and no disagreements?" Nope. I have minor disagreements over minor things, just like I like the Yankees and my wife likes the Red Sox. Howver, when my church says that I fought for a country that invented the AIDS virus to eradicate blacks, I denounce that chirch in the next nanosecond. Not when it's politically expedient to do so, but in the very next second. |
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But I bet if I had the time and read the sermons of some large churches, maybe not in the NE, where instead of race, it was consistently Anti gay, or Anti Muslim, etc.. and I am not referring to the Westboro whack jobs. You might not view Anti-Gay comments as you do Rev Wright's statements, but some do. I was simply trying to provide context on one of the posts you mentioned. I don't know the context of the racial comments Wright made, and likely don't agree with them. You also are guilty of providing these without context though. Doesn't mean it changes what he said, I'm just saying. It doesn't make me rethink my vote from Obama/Biden to McCain/Palin the problem with the internet and politics, is we all come across as very angry. I'm sure you're a very nice guy, and we have fundamental disagreements. I mean hell, I tolerate RIJimmy enough to teach him my decades of bottom fishing experience. I appreciate having these discussions and your thought out responses. You are obviously a passionate guy. |
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Maybe I'm not smart enough to grasp this "context" thing. Rev Wright said that our federal government invented the AIDS virus to wage biological warfare against blacks. Put that in any context you want, it's inconceivable to me that we'd elect as President a man who would let such a pastor baptize his kids, and perform his marriage. At the very least, how can you deny that there are valid reasons to wonder what Obama really thinks about this country? |
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And there is a fundamental difference between us. I believe he doesn't hate America, you do. we could continually go around. Context (of the quotes) may have been the wrong word. I need to read them in their entirety I guess is what I meant. The 'chickens come home to roost' comment, it turns out was a direct quote of of former Ambassador to Iraq and Regan cabinet member, not Wrights original idea, and was taken out of context from his sermon. Again, it may not change a thing, that may be the exception, and they may be as racial and %$%$%$%$ty as it sounds, but I try and be critical of what I hear from both sides of the media. RIJ, I meant what I said. tolerate is the right word :love: |
DEFENDING THE INDEFENSIBLE IS AWFULLY HARD WORK...
WIKIPEDIA Jeremiah Wright Controversy Main article: Jeremiah Wright controversy In March 2008 the U.S. Presidential campaign of Barack Obama was affected when videos of sermons by the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, his former pastor at Trinity United Church of Christ, came to media attention. In one broadcast on many media outlets, including ABC News, Wright, on Sept. 16, 2001, referenced an appearance of Peck on Fox News before saying, "We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye...and now we are indignant, because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought back into our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost." Wright attributed to Peck the credit for allegedly "pointing out" that "America's chickens are coming home to roost", a phrase Wright repeated several times. According to PBS Ombudsman Michael Getler, though Peck did cite numerous faults against America and criticized its foreign policy, "Peck never used the phrase about chickens coming home to roost. His answers were more nuanced."[9] he was also in the CARTER ADMIN(which I could care less about but Bry felt the Regan association quite important to point out) AND...He argues that while Hezbollah could be considered a terrorist organization, it is no more terrorist than Israel or the U.S. itself. He supports a dialogue with Hezbollah. Peck has also said that he also believes that Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization. |
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"I believe he doesn't hate America, you do. we could continually go around. " I'm not saying I think he hates America. I'm saying his spiritual mentor, his political mentor, and his wife all dislike this country to varying degrees. Do you agree? Given that the most important people in his life seem to dislike this country, it seems rational to me to wonder what he thinks. But those who dare to question his patriotism are dismissed as kooky racists by those who worship Obama. Rockhound, how about economics? I'm no expert by any means, but here's what I think... (1) the western European nations are more socialist in nature than the US currently is (fact) (2) those western european nations are in far more economic danger than the US currently is (fact) (3) given (1) and (2), it's fair to say that western european socialism doesn't seem to be working (my opinion, but reasonable I think) (4) in order to save themselves, those nations are drastically cutting spending (fact) (5) Obama's vision of america is one where the federal government is larger than we're used to, with higher taxes to support it (I'd say that's fact, I don't see how you can disagree). In other words, he favors the western European model. \Given all this, why would anyone in his right mind believe that we should repeat the same mistakes that are currently destroying Western Europe? Why is that form of light socialism going to work here, if it has never worked anywhere else? I don't like the fact that there are poor folks out there. If someone could build a society where everyone made exactly $125,000, I would want to live there. But there is a reason why, in the history of the planet, no opne has been able to pull it off. It just doesn't work. Therefore, I am as opposed to Obama's economic policies as I can be. Our economy was doing just fine until the subprime mortgages imploded. What do you think? |
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I can't pass this one up. ,, it has been discussed here in previous posts, and I didn't want to rehash my arguments. Whats next? Birth certificates? pasted from a Op-ed by Roland Martin, CNN. Bold emphasis added by me. did anybody else see or hear him? He was on FOX News, this is a white man, I guess Edward peck hates America too.... ........................................... it's a little more than that Jim, Bryan has formed his opinion based on a CNN/MSNBC fairytale illusion narrative rather than actual facts...he just proved it by using a story by a CNN unknown, claiming to debunk the Reverend Wright myth claiming that a member of the Regan administration had said exactly the same thing...none of which is true and it turns out that his expert witness sounds exactly like most Obama "friends" and would have actually fit quite nicely in to the Wright Congregation.....it's not a difference of "Opinion"...it's a difference in the ability/willingness to selectively ignore or dismiss basic facts simply because they disagree with his world view and it occurs routinely and results in thin arguments beyond the basic talking points...what sort of debate do you have when facts are completely ignored or dismissed or in this case...invented....you stated this as a liberal trait...it's remarkably accurate...and in an effort to defend WHO?...Reverend Wright?!?!? someone should tell him, lest he continue to wander in the dark.....you know, about the Peck thing...he's selectively ignoring me...further proof:uhuh: |
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Here in lies a major issue. I don't think many people, myself included think that we can continue to raise spending a cut taxes, and this applies to both sides of the aisle. I think the White House dropped the ball with this one, and should have fought harder. The problem now, is that these cuts are probably permanent (maybe not a problem? I like lower taxes as well) but few of the Republicans are actually proposing ways to make the cuts needed. They were continually griping about how we need to extend unemployment, but only if the Democrats find a way to fund it. Where is the same logic with the tax cuts? What will get cut to account for the difference in income for the country.... Probably nothing right now, and nothing when the Republicans take the house. Quote:
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Bryan, its all business 101. If a lowly URI business graduate like me gets it, they need to as well!
There is no budget for 2011 is there? If no, you cant say that the tax cuts cost us anything! Tax = Revenue. A budget should be Revenue - expenses = surplus or defecit. So if the tax rates are extended - Revenue is relatively fixed....on the BOTTOM end. Market goes up, businesses do well, etc....we can take in more revenue. So all this talk that were funding tax breaks with the defecit is foolish. We need to greatly reduce spending and get this country making money. I know you know this, but just restating. |
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It is also a good thing to remember, that even without the Bush tax cuts, we are way below historic tax levels.... what was the percentage post WWII? Was it higher than today (to pay for the War???) |
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we had a budget surplus in this country under Clinton, not because of some brillaint budgetary moves, but teh country was cranking with the dot-com market. Lots of capital gains. We need to crank again. Only business can crank, government wanks. Government out of the way. Its the only solution I see. |
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"but I wouldn't call Wright his political mentor" I assume you meant to say "spiritual" mentor. You don't consider Wright to be Obama's spiritual mentor. Let's see...Obama sat in that church for 20 years, Wright married the Obamas, Wright baptized both of the Obama girls, what would you call it? You sound like someone who will go to great lengths to avoid reality, if that reality makes Obama look bad. "As far as Michelle, who knows" I know what she said. Do you? Laura Bush? Where is the evidence she might be an anti-American influence on her husband. You are dodging... "I also don't see us heading down the socialist path you do." Based on what? Obama wants the feds to play a bigger role in healthcare, the auto industry, financial markets...He wants to drastically expand the size and scope of the federal government. You say his vision is not the same as western Europe. PLEASE SUPPORT THAT STATEMENT... |
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