Or you're gullible enough to go strictly by what he says as opposed to his voting history.

hold on now, may be a little more than that....
Given that Rev wrights comments from O's church pulpit where of a radical madman spewing anti-american, anti-white filth and sounding VERY un-christian-like may have had a tiny impact on the public's perception of O's religion, dont ya think?

Paul, there is a huge difference, unless I am missing something...

Rubio claims to be Catholic. I have no direct knowledge of anything Rubio has done to refute his claim.

Obama claims to be Christian. I do, however, have tons of evidence to refute his claim, and here it is. For 20 years, Obama listened to Rev Wright preach NOT Christianity, but something called Black Liberation Theology. Where Christianity is based on love and charity, BLT is based on hate, lies, and racism (for example, suggesting that the US Govt invented AIDS to eradicate blacks). Obama sat in Wright's church for 20 years, Obama called Wright his spiritual advisor, Wright married the Obamas and baptized both of Obama's girls. That's a very close, intimate relationship. Obama stuck by Wright until it was politically necessary to throw him under the bus. All facts.

Obama can claim to be Christian. I can claim to look like Brad Pitt, but alas, my claiming such does not make it so.

If there is compelling evidence that Rubio isn't Catholic, I'm willing to listen...

Spence, of course, suggests that conservatives doubt Obama's Christianity because his middle name is Hussein. As usual, Spence ignores the facts that make Obama look awful, and instead he demonizes the opposition by calling us bigots. I don't care what Obama's middle name is. If Obama's spiritual advisor, for his entire adult life, was a guy who peddles in hate, don't tell me you're a Christian unless you completely renounce everything you heard for the last 20 years, and Obama hasn't done that.

(1) voters voted for Obama because he said he'd be a centrist, despite his voting history. Correct? I guess they were all as gullable as you claim I am with Santorum...

(2) What did Santorum do that was so fiscally liberal? It's my understanding that his record was pretty conservative, though I could be wrong. You are the one who brought up his voting history, where are the details?

No, RIJIMMY, to Spence there isn't more than that. If Obama claims to be Christian, then in Spenceworld, conservatives cannot possibly have a valid reason to refute Obama's claim. If we question Obama at all, it must be because we are racists and bigots and hatemongers. For Spence, there can never, ever, be any other plausible explanation. Never. According to Spence, any dissent from Obama is necessarily rooted in ignorance, hate, or both.

Christie prolly said, "This is America Mam, we still have Freedom of Choice
and I choose to send my children to parochial school for their education."

Tell me what that has to do with Leadership when OBAMA, Leader of our country,
chooses to send his children to private school rather than a public school in Washington ??
The Commander in Chief sets the example, right??

WSJ - It turns out that Mr. Rubio was a Mormon from age 8 to 12 when his mother joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints after a move to Las Vegas. The Rubio family returned to the Roman Catholic Church when he was 12, and Mr. Rubio was baptized a Catholic at 13.

Maybe he is a sleeper Morman agent?

I don't have an issue with private schools...in the interview though Christie sure came off as a douche. Google it...

-spence

(1) I never said anything about Obama. I thought we were talking about Santorum. Instead of defending Santorum with "yeah well Obama sucks because" kind of replies, how about sticking to the subject at hand by defending your guy on his merits.

(2) Let's look at Santorum's voting record:support of Medicare prescription drug program, supported that whole "Bridge to Nowhere" Bill that was chock full of massive pork, his repeated Yea votes for raising the debt ceiling, continued support of providing funds to Amtrak... should I go on?

I read a "Taxpayers for Common Sense" article yesterday that showed during Santorum's time in the House and Senate that he had at least $1billion of pet project he stuffed into bills. Looking for reference article now.

Now, that's not to say that he hasn't also voted in a way that would be in line with the views of a fiscal conservative, but remove your veil and stop trying to frame him up as a textbook example of what a fiscal conservative should be.

Johnny, I'm no huge Santorum fan. But if someone says Santorum is a whack job because he's a strict Catholic, I don't see anything wrong with pouinting out that our current President has supported a church that is a lot weirder, a lot more divisive, and a lot more hateful, than anyone can ever claim about Catholicism.

I don't see Santorum through any veil whatsoever. That's why I simply asked you to provide examples of his spending record that were not in line with conservative principles. All I did was ask a question, do you get that prickly every time someone asks you a question?

I'm not inclined to hold him "responsible" for the religion bestowed upon him by his parents. In any event, I'll take a Mormon over a disciple of Rev Wright any day of the week.

I don't care what Marco Rubio did when he was 8 through 12, and I dare say most folks don't care either. Ted Kennedy killed someone as an adult and used his family name to dodge guilt, and after that, he was elected to the Senate for 100 consecutive years (using hyperbole here). If that's OK, I'll give Rubio a pass for what church his parents took him to when he was 8 years old.

But evidentially a huge % of the teabaggers thought Obama was a Muslim with no proof b/c his father was a Muslim.

We know Rubio was a Mormon. I don't believe the teabaggers would vote for a slate w/potentially 2 Mormons.

Hi Jim in CT,
I would be a bit careful if I were you in stating that Rubio has a good shot at bringing along the Hispanic vote. His stand on immigration has not gone down well among the non-Cuban segment of the population. I could be wrong but I think the larger Hispanic community feels a great deal of sympathy for immigration reform and his move to a more conservative Republican position is seen by many in that community (especially in the West) as a sell out.

Really, it puts Rubio to the right of Rick Perry! :hihi:

-spence

must be Muslim.

Is that a joke? Tax cuts for the majority of Americans. Moderate on the environment. Only thing he has done gun related is relax some regulations. On yeah, a Romney based health care program for the country... Helping the revolution in Libya... We'll find out how centerist when he gets to go up against the nut Santorum and see where the independents go.

Paul, I am an active Tea Partier. Tea bagger is insulting and offensive as you know. That's fine if you want to play that way, just don't expect any better from me.

I am friends with many Tea Partiers, and not a single one of us ever thought Obama was a Muslim. Th ereason you think many Tea Partiers think that, is because the media portrays us that way, because they want to sucker you into thinking we're all a bunch of kooks. Looks like that obvious ploy worked on you. Anyway, I wish he were a Muslim, that would be a lot easier to take that being a black liberation theologian.

No one will hold Rubio responsible for what he did when he was 8.

"a huge % of the teabaggers thought Obama was a Muslim with no proof b/c his father was a Muslim. "

Funny. Since you are calling Rubio a Mormon due to the fact that his parents were Mormon, seems like you are guilty of the same exact insanity that you accuse tea partiers of. Kind of ironic when I put it that way, isn't it?

Tea partiers don't care if those guys are Mormon. We care that those guys, unlike Obama, understand that you can't perpetually spend trillions more than you have, without paying the piper some day. Tea partiers care that those guys understand that wealth is created in the private sector by entrepeneurs, not in public labor unions.

If all he brings is the Cuban vote, that alone is a huge coup. But you nailed it, Mexicans (like most other liberals) don't really want to listen to folks who have the nerve to suggestthat we enforce our duly constituted laws. Liberals are more than willing to ignore those laws when it serves to increase their voting base.

Obamacare. The stimulus, which gave billions and billions to public labor unions, while not keeping unemployment below 8% as he said. Forcing the catholic Church to hand out free contraceptives. Adding more to our debt than any president in the history of our nation. Not the actions of a centrist...Taking over the auto industry, telling them what kind of cars to make (the kind that nobody wants, but who cares about that).

I'm not saying Obama cannot win, I'm saying he's no more of a centrist than Santorum would be.

Zimmy, I wish he were a Muslim, that would be a lot less insane than subscribing to Black Liberation Theology. Inexplicable. Well, it's inexplicable to people who think rationally about such things. Imagine calling a man your spiritual advisor, who claims thatthe US Govt invented the AIDS virus to eradicate blacks from the planet. But for a guy (Obama) who also supported infanticide, and palled around with Bill Ayers, nothing is out of reach I guess.

Sounds like you did till I mentioned the Pres.

If your talking about the CNN interview, I saw it live and what you saw
is what you get.
If you don't like direct answers and telling it like it is,
I can understand why you would make a personal attack.

Hey, I tell it like it is.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I musta missed something, when did that start. :huh: :D

You mean hearing him say it on the interview?

Obamacare: so you won't vote for Romney then...

The stimulus: no way to really know, but many independent economists have said unemployment would have been several points higher and some say the stimulus was too small. Unemployment doubled under Bush , went up about 2% more in the beginning of Obama's presidency, has dropped back down and is trending down.

Adding more debt: yeah 2% more than Bush 2 at this point. 8% more than Reagan, at this point. Definitely a sign of a radical.

Taking over the auto industry: again... you must be joking. GM has a record $7.6 billion profit last year. Chrysler had the first profitable year since 2005. The loans to the auto companies prevented economic devastation.

Remember, this started by you claiming Obama was so far from a centrist. So he pushed for the same health plan as the leading Republican candidate. Raised debt during a recession, about the same percent as the previous republican president over 8 years and within 10% of the Republican political messiah. $80 billion loan to the auto industry, most of which was paid back, almost exactly the same amount of subsidies for fossil fuel industry from 2002-2008. Quite radical.

You forgot about Obama's radical obsession with killing terrorists. In some circles they call it appeasement :hihi:

Dow closed above 13,000 yesterday for the first time in 4 years. The auto industry, a cornerstone of the American fabric is doing well and consumer confidence is rising.

The market sees an Obama victory in November and is responding positively.

-spence

Interesting, so Obama is baptized a Christian and has taken Jesus as his savior...yet it's up to Obama to prove he really is a Christian?

That's not how I thought the religion worked.

-spence

Actually you're wrong again. Obama did very publicly denounce the fringe things that Rev. Wright has said...

I've read much of what Wright has preached and as I've written in previous threads much of the criticism is either lacking context or doesn't get the tenor of some black churches that which can admittedly sound angry at times. I'll tell you this, Rev. Wright can keep your attention. Yes, there are comments like the AIDS claim which is widely believed in black communities.

Obama has denounced this.

He did stand behind Wright as a spiritual adviser as Obama has said he never personally heard the worst inflammatory remarks. I do find it interesting that after 20 years of sermons all his critics could come up with were a handful of gotchya's.

To argue that Wright's church wasn't Christian is absurd and ignorant. It's a fixture of south Chicago and works to help the poor and sick in the name of Jesus Christ.

Really, this is just all part of the effort to frame Obama as an "other"...he's a Muslim, no he wasn't even born here, no he's not even a REAL Christian!

-spence

Zimmy, you tried to portray Obama as centrist by ignoring everything liberal he's ever done. A person isn't defined only by the moderate things they do, they are defined by everything they do. A child knows this, but you tried that cheap ploy anyway. I'm sorry if I embarassed you by pointing that out, but when you deal with me, you would do well to remember that I am somewhat knowledgable of actual events, I am pretty thoughtful, and fairly rational. You aren't going to convince me that Obama isn't liberal by ignoring everything liberal he's ever done.

"Obamacare: so you won't vote for Romney then... "

Please show me where Romney suggested that he would impose Obamacare on the entire nation, and I will withdraw my support.

See Zimmy, you, like Spence, have already made up your mind, and you then try to bend all the facts to fit your agenda. I look at facts as they actually are, and then make my decision. That's how critical thinking works.

"The stimulus: no way to really know"

No way to know? Let's talk about what we do know. It cost $750 billion. Obama claims that it saved 3 million jobs. Even if we believe that, that works out to $250,000 per job. Ridiculous. We also know that most of the jobs saved were public sector union jobs (big suprise, since public sector labor unions give all their $$ to Democrats). Those jobs can only be saved again next year, and every year after that, by raising taxes on folks. Those jobs do not create wealth, the destroy wealth by requiring taxes to fund them. What else do we know? OBAMA HIMSELF admitted on TV that the country is worse off now than it was 3 years ago. We also know that we didn't have that money laying around, we borrowed it. So we have to pay interest on that, meaning our kids and grandkids will be paying for it.

"Adding more debt: yeah 2% more than Bush 2 at this point"

EXCUSE ME? Are you taking your cues from Spence, and literally making it up as you go along?

US Federal Debt by Year - Charts Tables History

In 2008, when Bush left, debt was $10.0 trillion. At the end of 2011, it was $14.8 trillion. Assuming these numbers are correct, that's a 48% increase. When I got my degree in math at UCONN, they taught me that 48% is a whole lot more than 2%. Furthermore, some of the Bush debt was awesome debt...for instance, Bush's AIDS funding is credited by Stanford University (not a conservative think tank) with saving the lives of more than a million Africans. I'll HAPPILY pay higher taxes for something that noble. Wht has Obama done that can compare? What do we have to show for a 48% increase in debt?

In 3 years, Obama has increased the debt by 48%. Zimmy, if you have different numbers saying he increased debt by 2%, please enlighten me.

"GM has a record $7.6 billion profit last year"

When you get subsidized $$ from the govt, and permission from the president to screw your bondholders, it's a bit easier to be profitable.
Zimmy, I thought the Occupy agitators were opposed to a system that rewards political insiders at the expense of everyone else. Liberals went berserk when Bush bailed out the banks (which I was also opposed to), but those same liberals think it's great that Obama bailed out the auto industry? Why the double-standard? Answer...the auto industry is unionized, and unions support Democrats, so it's OK to bail them out. In other words, organizations that are sypmathetic to liberals can get huge bailouts, and nobody else.

"Remember, this started by you claiming Obama was so far from a centrist."

Correct. No one who supports infanticide can be called a centrist.

"So he pushed for the same health plan as the leading Republican candidate"

Wrong. America isn't the same thing as Massachusetts. Apples and oranges. What's good for a particular state isn't necessarily what's good for our country.

"Raised debt during a recession, about the same percent as the previous republican president over 8 years and within 10% of the Republican political messiah"

That has been proven by me as 100% false. Not even close to the truth. Not even close. You go ahead and show me how he only increased debt by 2%, and I'll donate $100 to the charity of your choice (probbaly some charity trying to free Abu Mumia Jamal from prison), and I'll do it publicly here. Good luck.

You have been completely, and I mean completely, annihilated.

2% increase in debt. And here in CT, my side loses to your side every single year. I'm glad my financial security is just about all set in after-tax accounts, so that when the sh*t hits the fan thanks to people like you who don't know the difference between 2% and 48%, my family will be secure. Don't come crying to me when the checks start bouncing Zimmy.

2% increase in debt! Did you hear that everybody? No need to be worried about the debt, stop claiming that Obama is flushing the economy down the toilet and following Europe off the cliff! Zimmy says that Obama has only increased debt by 2%, so there's no need for concern! The Tea Party agenda has no merit, none at all. Nothing to see here, no need for concern.

Thanks Zimmy, because I was under the opinion that we had accumulated debt to the point of it being a national security issue.

Zimmy, since you were making jibberish up, why did yuo stop at the 2% lie? Why didn't you claim that Obama personaly paid back all of our debt out of his own checkbook? Then he'd really be somethiing...

Your one of the most offensive persons in this forum. I've pointed it out before.

Call any woman dogs lately?