I think the Ghost is someone from this board who does not have the nads to state that himself....first post? :bshake:

I am from north shore in Mass and I fish So.Co. in the fall, why? because 1) I want to extend my season, and 2) the chances of catching a trophy is great. now with that said, I fish about 7 different spots that I learned from other's. now there is no way I like to show up at some B-way and find 5 guys out of 12 wearing sneakers and not doing what everyone else is doing Ie rotation. I don't want to go down and land there fish or release it. I want to fish. but if you don't help them there going in the water. usually when I see this I go fish the beach or look for another spot. I don't like to drive for 2 hrs. and find 25 guys at a spot I planed on fishing at midnight. I guess what I am saying is "Lose lips sinks spots"

Rhody has an access problem as it is and putting it in writing is not right
it is the magazine's fault for publishing it not the writer,

This is in no way a bashing of Steve just my opinion on spot burning

Jim - I realize you and I are talking about you becoming a sponsor here on S-B but I do encourage open discussion. Knowing Steve for a few years and knowing how nice he is, good he is, and how much he's trying to give back to the community, a few years ago, he might have flipped if some spots are mentioned, and one or two today as well. While I don't want people slamming Steve, the topic is open to discuss. I'm not going to stop that.

You are pretty tight lipped about where you fish and while you write articles about all over the bay in your boat (good ones too), you don't publish GPS numbers of your favorite locales.

Maybe the difference is in the balance. Steve would hate seeing certain places talked about and Steve would hate seeing certain people in certain places at certain times. And Steve would really hate to see some places crushed by an onslaught of inconsiderate people - like all of us that give a damn about it...

So come in and discuss this of you want, and yeh, there is occasional whining. But there is a big can of worms when people talk spots. I imagine you'd be pissed if someone started popping your GPS numbers in articles too...

Larry - your assumption is incorrect....

In almost every issue of OTW they burn freshwater spots maps, directions , parking...ect. This is nothing new. :crying:

Well, Well, Well...
My intention was not to Slam the author, I am sorry if my 2 previous posts suggest that. I am just saying that he was too explicit, and his editor shouldn't have let it go that far, seeing as I have learned through this thread it was Steve's second article. Never met Steve, but have heard of his reputation, kinda surprised he'd be so explicit.... spots, location, whatever... my primary issue has been, and always will be access, seen way too much of it lost in my lifetime, and I'm just under 50.
Anytime something like this comes out, and FD's Hotspots is a good example, although it is a 20 YO book written about fishing 30 years ago, most of it still rings true, and the impact of that book has gone on ad nauseum ever since.
But, anything to increase traffic, illegal parking, due to overcrowding, litter, etc, some can joke about it, but litter, bugs the hell out of me, and people in high dollar shorefront RE, that hate it even more. Those folks pay a premium in RE tax, so when they start calling and complaining, selectmen, PD's, etc. they are all ears.
Consider the impact before you publish, and yes Bill, I will be sending a wordy email, or snail mail to OTW...

John, sorry for the alley fight, not my intent, you wanna pull the plug, or lock this, go ahead....

Since this thread of OTW is receiving many reviews by fellow members, I would like to introduce an idea that will contribute to good fishing edicit.

I would like to see the tackle shops post in there shops a note stating "please do not litter". There should be a few other choice words in there such as "or access will be closed".

More importantly is that it should be in other languages.

I will be willing to put something together but I need your help.

1) Appropiate phrase but not offensive to anyone.

2) Translate to languages such as spanish, asian, etc. english if course.
By having other languages will get more respect from the people that
speak and read that language

3) Graphic design like a catchy border maybe flags.

I choose to introduce this idea of this thread because I know a seperate thread with no introduction will get lost to the bottom in a short while. Action should be taken soon.
I will be creating a seperate thread (Fishing access maybe closed "No Litter") for this but I will not want to do it alone and I need your help.

The final draft can then be on this web site for you to give to your B & T.

This has moved away from a beyotch session (for the most part) and if it stays a discussion it won't get locked. If it starts to be a b-session or a slam session it will get pulled or locked...

Wow, 7 pages, I have alot to catch up on.

Eben, I hope you feel better soon.

Wow. It’s amazing how much was written about an article that most seemed not to have read or gone to the seminar.
The irony is that this thread has probably significantly focused attention on the article and increased sales of OTW. IOW, your attention to this has helped burn those spots. Actually, there are even a couple references to other spots that were not mentioned in the article.
The hypocrisy is that many responders learned of “their spots” by being told, mentored on fishing them or followed seasoned fishermen by “noticing which vehicles were always there”, etc. This article is simply a matter of degree. Is it envy that those that considered themselves the privileged few are no longer as privileged as they wish they were? I hope not.
The reality – Steve wrote of 5 spots from Westport to almost Connecticut. That’s it, just 5 spots. If one of those very public spots is one you’ve been learning all season, you need to broaden your horizons. Fishing the same spot all the time? All season? I sort of feel sorry for anyone truly in that position, but whose fault is it for being a one trick pony?
For those that read the articles or went to the seminars they would have noticed that he also told how to fish these spots – GASP! Except that his first rule, and one repeated is that you need to fish at night for big fish. Is this going to be a problem? I know I run into lots of googans in the summer during daylight, but very few as the weather gets colder, and almost none at night. I rarely even see another fisherman late at night. If a fella shows up for a 3am tide after having walked 20 minutes in soft sand, I’m pretty confident that he’s serious about the sport and, if a newbie, willing to learn and work together. I don’t have a problem with that, and suspect that most here wouldn’t either.
Same thing with the access (which IMO, is the most important issue). Most of the spots have a ton of mixed use parking and/or a bit of a walk. Anything more than a hundred feet of walking and most googans are not interested. That leaves real fishermen. At night they are few and far between. I don’t have a problem with that either.
My point to all of this is that, like all other spots written about, it won’t amount to much of anything. It seems like the only spot burning that creates problems are spot/activity reports like “30 pound bass are being caught at X.” But even then, my experience is that it only affects fishing at X for a couple of weekends, and usually the bite has died then anyway.
That’s my 2 cents, which is probably only worth half that. :bgi:

Speaking of incorrect assumptions, Ghost2 is Justin the son... So Justin, please keep it open to a discussion - thanks....

John

Sometimes it only takes a few more people to ruin a spot where 2 people could have fished for years with no complaints.


The guy who has to make many trips to learn spots is going to appreciate it more when he finds a good one. He'll treat the ability to fish there as something valauble.
God knows who or how many will show up at the spots because they have a $5 guide (OTW Mag) to show them just where and how. The guys who get it easy tend to trash the places more.


I see it all the time. The guys who have put in their time are carrying out trash left behind by half a dozen first time fisherman at some spot that should have taken them 2 or 3 years to find and figure out. Thank god the Dunkin Donuts cups stack up or you could never handle all the trash they leave. :)

Anyway , its not the end of the world but I don't like the idea of mass media exposure of specific spots. I don't really care who's doing it , I just don't think its good for the sport.


I do think that the thread is excellent. Discussing the article and the access implications of naming spots too specifically will raise awareness and that is good for the sport.


As a moderator , I'm sure glad it was Steve who did this. If it had been #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& , this board would have been flaming for three weeks!! :) :devil:

I heard that #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& typed it for him :whackin: :jester:

Who is #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&? :uhoh:

who's #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& ? :uhoh:

I said it first.

Roger really gets it.
If you guys just sat down, caught a breath, and thought about it---you'd end up at the same place.
The thing I really worry about is what I hear people saying about this site---- "You can't have a discussion without mentioning a " spot" and then everyone jumps all over you and you never get an answer to your question,"
Maybe lighten--up?

I worry about that too but I am also worried that spots are going to be more and more in short supply - regardless of where they are - and that we are doing a disservice to ourselves and the sport...

I just spent a half hour reading this thread. I subscribe to OTW and I enjoy most of the articles. However it seems some stuff has been over looked here.

The magazine has several sections in the back every month which give reports about different sections (and spots) in NE. Soco, block island, upper cape etc. If thats not spot burning I don't know what is.

I'm from the south shore of Boston. Do you honestly think I'm going to drive to rhode island or cape cod and scout spots not having any idea of where to go? Especially these days? Many of you are living in fantasy world. People who enjoy things like fishing, skiing, cooking you name it, want information and they will get it one way or the other. I'm sorry to tell you.

I want spots, I'm not ashamed to say it. I guarante all the sharpies on this board have more than one spot that was shown to them or they heard about. I under stand if you have a couple secluded honey holes etc. I have those too and don't want them burned (cough cough....Ron Powers). But you bet your ass I'm going to research well known spots, Pt Jude, Race point etc before I spend $63 driving down there only to find out I'm fishing the wrong tide and half mile to the left from where I should be. Maybe I'm not a true surfcaster in the sense that I don't snorkel and scout every spot i try but honestly i don't have the time or $ to waste when I can have information that will help me for $ 27 a year. I respect the water I don't litter, I don't slam beers and discard beef jerky wrappers but perhaps I'm not a pure breed

I slapped him real hard with my eel for that one. :whackin:
He learned... :rotf3:

Actually, I didn't get any flack for that one... surprisingly :rotf3:

Steve the boat and trailer are registered, just need to finish up some wiring.

There is also a fine line there too. Often, we need more fishermen in the ranks in order to preserve access that we currently have. Remember Black Point? OTOH, as is often pointed out, poor behavior at most little out of the way spots will get you thrown out, etc.

I have a solution.

I am going to write an expose' on Mckenna and #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&. i will list where they are fishing NOW with maps how to get in there and where they cast and submit it to saltwater sportsman. This will give it National coverage as opposed to only new england.


send me 20 bucks and i'll send you the rough draft incase they never print it :D

i cant beleive he mentioned the mussell bed. there is only parking for 2 cars :hs:

After reading this thread...

John brings up the MOST important point -

LOSS OF ACCESS!

No matter how you approach it, whether you're a week-end warrior or a daily dipper..."spot burning" or whatever you want to call it, lures the lazy. For every 1 serious fisherman who may learn from a write-up likes Steves' there will be 10 others just looking for some easy fishing...and from these 10, 5 will litter or raise enough havoc while fishing.,, whether it be an arguement with a home-owner or just making a loud entrance or exit to start the process of losing the spot.
Sure, some guys are just plain nice...and they have every right to share whatever they want with anyone they want, but one should keep such detailed information for a private conversation, not a broadcast message...

Lazy people need spots
Lazy people don't take trash home nor take the time to properly dispose of trash while fishing...it's too much work,,,just like finding your own spots or deviations of spots you've fished or heard of. Lazy people need spots. Lazy people will park in the wrong spot because it's closer instead of making the trek from safer parking because it's too much of a walk.

In case some of you haven't noticed, we don't ALL look at this sport the same way. You need to read deeper into the posts and who the postee' is...before even responding sometimes...most of the guys who are fine/OK with that write-up are still looking for unearned spots, lazy or just defending Steve due to friendship...to each his own. I think it was too detailed...way-so.

Just my $.02 . .. .I'm still learning - Mahalo!

You didn't gain any respect from me with that one... here's some late flack :whackin:

Nebe,

I have a few paragraphs written if you want to colaborate :rotf3:

Take a look at page 12 or so in this month's Saltwater Sportsman. Some guy from down south submitted a letter of complaint to the SS Editor because last month an article was written in SS burning (offshore I think) spots down there.

His complaint was the same as mine and many others in this thread -- it is NOT the fear that someone will catch fish, it is the fear that a spot will be inundated with fisherman causing all kinds of problems -- loss of access being only one of those problems.

The problem is obviously not limited to us striper-fishermen in the Northeast.

For those of you who keep saying that this spot-burning is not a big issue, you are sadly mistaken. And the not-in-my backyard attitude is similarly wrong.

You got a paypal account :rollem:

What do you think about starting a petition here and sending it to the Magazine?

Joe i read that last night and thought about this thread as well :D

Spot burning sells magazines

IMO, a waste of bandwidth.

You're the publisher---ask yourself this---which would would rather have? 500 sharpies pissed off at you and threatening to cancel their subscriptions, or 20,000 extra sales at the newsstands to the newbies who drink up "spots" articles? Throw in the facts that you make more $$$ from newsstand sales than you do on 'scripts, and the 500 guys who cancelled will buy a mag off the rack when there's an article that catches their interest.

As John said---spots sell. Editors know this. And even if the editor is a sharpie himself, and knows the score, he has his marching orders on content from the publisher.

Bravo Joep and bloocrab! We think too much alike!

I had told myself I wasn't going to respond on this one, not because I felt I was one of "the lazy" who only take advantage of an article like this, which admittedly I have not received my copy, thus have not read, but I felt compelled to respond due to some of the posts I've read. I don't know Steve, but I know from what has been written here, I surely would like to meet him someday. Sounds like a knowledgeable, standup kinda guy. He did his job and wrote an article, and obviously from the responses elicited here, he did a very, very good job of it. People here are quick to say "That race of people ALWAYS keep shorts", or "The googans ALL litter and park in the handicapped spots". If we're to accept that statements about a majority or an entire type or race of people are true, then wouldn't you agree those type people I mentioned just before are probably not at all, or of such an insignificant number as would even spend the money on OTW, let alone read the article. I think those spots will probably be fine, if not wholly protected by some who have weighed in here.

their at the town dock in harwich right now if you want to talk to them.http://24.63.160.194/dsc01314.jpg

Attached is a copy of an email I sent to the publisher of OTW on my company email letterhead. No reply as of yet.

"Chris:
What the hell were you thinking when you published this article? The Stripe bass internet message boards have been alive today ready to burn your mag and lynch McKenna. Now, I have Issue 1 of OTW. I have always considered your publication to be honest, ethical and above board. This article changes my opinion.

I must assume that you published the article through pure ignorance regarding "Spot Burning". This has been an ongoing debate for months on the boards and your publishing of McKenna's article just lit the fuse. You CANNOT publish an article that names fishing spots and gives directions without expecting the general surf fishing population of that area to be up in arms. I think it irresponsible journalism not to take this into consideration before publishing this type of article.

I make the preceding points only because I do care about OTW and feel you guys should have been more civic/public minded in your article selection.
Comments?"

Very nice piemma, hope it is effective.
Now if Mr. Mckenna was warned of the repercussions of this article before he wrote it and it was published, does this mean he did so with the intent of burning the spots? If he was aware of the negative feedback that was to come, or at least he was told what may happen if this article were to be printed, did he do so knowlingly to make a point? As I have said, he always had my respect so I gave him the benefit of the doubt til now.

Good questions Choggieman. I have know Steve for quite awhile and I just refuse to believe that there was malicious intent behind him writing the article. I think it was just one of those brain cramps we all have on occasion when we say/write something we later wish we hadn't. I am certain that, given the uproar his article has raised, he wishes he didn't submit it.
I know I have been guilt of writing emails that I never should have. I now re-read every email I write before I send it.

Steve is the most generous guy out there.. he would give you the shirt off his back if he thought you needed it. HE has never held back when i have asked him questions, even questions that i felt uncomfortable asking, as i knew that maybe only he knew the answer.

That being said, i just believe it is his nature to share.

I love the guy and i hate to see everyone ripping on him, but in the same light i am saddened that he would mention such sensitive spots in a region-wide publication.. I know his article will effect the way i fish this fall and next spring. :(

I agree with Piemma :)
If I could only take back some of the things I have said /done/wrote in my life I WOULD GROW WINGS
And would be sitting on the right hand side of the big Guy!

VB

ps. or maybe that would be me, the guy at the gate ! lol

I waited to jump in on this until I read the article, which I did last night. While I agree with the general sentiment regarding access, and the issues of overcrowding, I fail to see why this article is that different from articles and seminars I have seen in the past. Yet this one has caused such an uproar.

Nearly every issue of OTW has a chart of a lake, stream, piece of coastline that gives up spots with detailed tactics. Last month was an article on tuna fishing the Mud Hole that was quite detailed. Gene Bourque gave a seminar on the Elizabeths at the Mass Bass show with detailed charts, casting spots, anchoring locations and techniques. I remember a Fisherman article on Barnstable Harbor and the Vineyard. None of those created this response...

I've read striper Hot Spots, OTW, the Fisherman, SWS and more for years and never felt the urge to jump in my car and try them out. Instead I read about them and think about how a certain technique applies to my areas, spots, and tactics. Maybe a couple of them applied to me and I got a head start. I can't believe I'm the only one doing that. I have to believe that the vast majority of readers will be the same. A trip to RI/CT is a significant investment in time, even from the South Shore of Boston (me), that I simply can't commit. I'll think about how Steve fishes those spots and what is common to my areas and hopefully learn something.

I agree with an earlier point that if you bump into someone wading 200 yards to a bar at 2am in some remote place, more than likely they are not your run of the mill googan. If it were my spot, I'd much prefer that person to be somewhat educated and not sitting soaking bait preventing me from eeling.

Why is this article so different? Is it better if a bunch of googans discover this spot on their own and soak bait where the sharpies all want to plug? At least now they know the techniques and etiquette. What is it about the surf that has this extra standard applied to it? I don't hear the boat crowd screaming about the boat spots.