My hardcore liberal sister-in-law (who is a scialist in every sense of the word) is furious with Obama. She resides in the Howard Dean camp that this bill is nothing the progressive core liberals wanted. Every item they wanted has been wiped clean. She admits it is junk and thinks Obama and Rahm sold out to the insurance lobby. She could spit on Obama today... three months ago she thought he walked on water. Piece by piece it is all coming undone... might explain this....

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll - Rasmussen Reports

I hear you..I just got back from the hardware store and 3 elderly gentlemen were discussing the bill and Obama and they were pissed off. They were talking about all his lies.. "Worst President ever"..and the guy that said that was like 90.

That same old guy probably still thinks Rock&Roll is evil:jump1::smash:

Nice, Bash the old guy who fought in WWII:rollem:

Interesting that hard left democrats are pissed off because its not socialized medicine, and the right is pissed off because it is socialized medicine.

Nice. Pull out the veteran card like he was suppose to know. :p

I'm pissed off because we can't afford it, it's a lousy bill that doesn't fix any problems but creates more hardship. It's based on fiscal lies. It screws senior citizens..... there is a reason they are doing it at this time. It's a sucky bill and they are ramming it down our collective throats. We deserve better. VOTE THEM OUT. or not. It's up to you.

No one really knows what it actually is aside from what Fox News, MSNBC and CNN reports.

In one poll, more than half of Americans want this to go through - in another, less than 40% want it - in yet another, a public-option has over 60% support.

As a business owner, I'm prepping ourselves to bend over, grab the ankles and take it like a prison inmate.

Nothing good will come from this.

Try to discredit people who are old as stupid and you may eat a little crow:biglaugh: That's a big problem in America. We don't tap into the vast wealth of knowledge and life experiences our older people have to offer.
Some of us think we are more knowledgable but we are not smarter. There is a difference.

I'm sure the next sentence was going to be "and the damm government should keep their hands of my medicare"

So what you're saying is that people of his generation *didn't* think that Rock & Roll was music of devil worshipers?

Seriously though, you're right. 4 years working full time as an EMT, about half our patients were basic transports to/from doctor's appts for people over 60. 10, 20, 30 minutes in the back of an ambulance with these folks with nothing to do but some paperwork allows a lot of time for discussion. Many people I'd see every (sometimes multiple times) a week and I always appreciated the knowledge I would gain from their opinion coming from the polar opposite side of the age spectrum, not to mention the wisdom that radiates from them if you take the time to listen.

Hell, just about everything I know about fishing is due to the overwhelming generosity of a few people (who have now become good friends) that have decades of fishing experience, some with more experience than years I've been alive. I hold a deep appreciate for their wisdom and guidance.

You guys liked " Waterboy" eh?

and you'll be getting exactly what you voted for...he warned you and you didn't listen.......:uhuh: Hope and Change:rotf2:

Actually, this isn't at all the HC Overhaul that was campaigned. So, you're wrong.

Also, as many of you forget, Obama isn't drafting the bill. He's blindly campaigning for the American people to get behind whatever the House and Senate come up with. Essentially, even he doesn't fully know what he's trying to sell. That isn't a defense for his actions, but this certainly isn't "Obama's Bill" as many of you like to portray it as.

Johhny, this is not Obama's bill, per se. It's his forcing something through so he has one accomplishment to hang his hat on after a year in office. It's sad how he had to use threats and scare tactics just so he could claim that one of his campaign promises was kept after a year. I can't wait to hear him proclaim success with a plan that most Americans want nothing to do with.

You're right. When the bill passes and he signs it, then signing off on it is completely on his shoulders, as is his current campaigning for it. However, many portray this entire situation as though Obama has sat down and written every nonsense clause in the bill and has personal ownership over the contents, which isn't the case at all - the idiots in the House and Senate hold that responsibility.

In the end, it's just easier for people to bitch about Obama and state the contents of the bill are completely his fault then doing a some research into who has been pushing which sections, who is requiring earmarks for their vote, who is for or against the abortion sections, or who's for the public-option.

I agree that he should be criticized about his blind support for the bill, but this isn't "Obama's Bill" as people here (and Obama himself) often portray it as. People tend to forget that we have a Legislative branch of government that does the legislating.

Thanks Buckman, at age 70, I couldn't agree with you more.

Imho, intelligence without being tempered with experience and wisdom is not intelligence at all.

Everything we ever learn comes from someone else and if we are intelligent we'll never stop learning and listening to others.

When your young you never think you'll get old, but trust me, enjoy everyday, cause you'll be a senior in the wink of an eye.
Now your runnin, soon you'll be walkin.

Btw- i still love my Rock and Roll, Classic Rock and even some Rap.
Listen to it everyday. :) Most of my friends do too.

I would call, it an "Obama, Pelosi, Reid Bill" as they are the main players,
the ones filling the back rooms with deals,with some calling it bribes and threats to get it passed.
I don't call that legislating, and certainly not representing the will of the American people.

But in the end Obama owns it, as it was his campaign promise to get one passed.

He doesn't have to sign it JD.

Yup, let's see the Obama Balls on the table here. We are gettin fleeced.

Oh, I forgot, Demcratic majority house and senate, oops!!

Is your sister in law a Blonde?

I don't know, are you an Ass :smash:

This bill looks like a Christmas tree with goodies for all the holdouts.

Reid says "A number of states are treated differently than other states.
That's what legislation is all about, compromise."

Ya right, he's gotta be kiddin me.
Looks like a desperation bill, which gives whatever they want for the holdouts, so they can meet an artificial dead line,
at our cost.
Took a no cost Medicaid offer for Nevada for Nelson to sell out.

Nope, he doesn't... but he will and I've acknowledged that he will with:
"When the bill passes and he signs it, then signing off on it is completely on his shoulders, as is his current campaigning for it."

Obama says he's getting 95% of what he wanted in the bill, one of you is lying...

"Obama said the Senate legislation accomplishes 95 percent of what he wanted on health care. "Every single criteria for reform I put forward is in this bill," the president said in an interview with The Washington Post."

there's that pesky number again 95%.....


again...let me be clear ... EVERY SINGLE CRITERIA FOR REFORM I PUT FORWARD IS IN THIS BILL....

QUOTE justplugit:
"I would call, it an "Obama, Pelosi, Reid Bill" as they are the main players"

I believe we have a new Axis of Evil:uhuh:

No matter he is a one term wonder, and then when a republican gets voted in the short sighted will just blame the republicans for the bad health care plan.

It's not so much an either/or as it is a too much socialism vs. wanting more socialism. For the hard left, it was a chance for a big leap toward a socialist state instead of the slower, incremental shifting toward the Hobbesian Leviathan that has been occuring almost from the nation's beginning. The financial "crisis," the climate change conference, and the health care bill were massive opportunities to reinterpret/change the Constitution as granting positive powers to the State to DO for us as a group rather than only being a list of prohibitions of what it CANNOT DO against us as individuals, as well as opportunities to redistribute wealth from each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

But, incremental steps in a socialist direction have been taken. That's why there is displeasure on both sides.

This is no fun!!! No one want's to defend any of this. Isn't this what you Obama lovers wanted???

just wait till next year...VAT tax..they're talking a financial transactions tax, Charlie Wrangle and Geitner are planning to "tweak" the tax code to make sure everyone is paying their fair share even though neither pay their own taxes, amnesty for millions and millions, Cap and Trade, extend unemployment again and again, more stimulus, Card Check, maybe save or create a job or two....hope the Obama's enjoy their Hawiian holiday...seems like they never get away in these difficult financial times when everyone is struggling....:rotf2:

hey, what ever happened to Kawanzaa?...I swear I have not heard the word once this season...don't tell me it's gone the way of Ebonics? I used to think it was cool when the kids came home from school with the Kawanzaa hats...oh well... Happy Kawanzaa to all....and to American Freedom and Liberty...good night...

Oh damn Harry, we may have a little math problem.

Nope.
I wanted what he campaigned on.
Reform, reduced costs and Universal care for minors.

you know what sucks?
It seems to be this or nothing. The republicans had 6 years under bush and it got worse, costs rose, and even more people are unemployed. Now at least something is being tried. If it starts to fail it will get yanked long before the 10 years is up. I know more than a few people on here are uninsured, but according to Scott, if you're under 40, it isn't a big deal. Or was it under 30? or under 25?


regardless. Happy holidays everyone.

:love:

HUH? when did I say that?...aready hittin' the eggnog with visions of Global Warming dancing in your head? I'm buying land in Greenland next year and opening a winery when it melts or collapses, did you know that the Vikings grew some kick ass grapes up there the last time that it melted? :buds:

hey Bry...name the last government program that was ever yanked for it's failure or ended after it cured the ill that it was created to solve and promised to resolve :rotf2:

baby's first Christmas is magical...really enjoy it!!!

Not to let a little thing called the Constitution get in the Dems way Brian, but they put wording in the bill to prevent this "something" from being revoked.

NO!

Are U a Democrat? If U R U would have to be an ASS! Why else would a group have a JackAss for a symbol.

Flash-- NYT reports today- Harry Reid voted NO on his own HC bill then realized what he did and changed his vote to yes.:rotflmao:

Our esteemed Senate leader. :D

Prolly a Freudian slip, sub consciously knowing the bill is a travesty. :hihi:

Like what, no backsies? :laugha:

-spence

Glad to see that after being played for a fool and lied to, you still have your sense of humor.:rotf2:

Merry Christmas America

Mayo Clinic annouces it will no longer accept Medicare patients.
Indication of things to come?

Don't grow old guys. :doh: