There's been a decline because many people have probably realized that religion isn't really a free ticket to heaven. Children today learn far more early in life that there is no Easter bunny Santa Claus either.
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I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a #^&#^&#^&#^& but what grinds my gears is anyone who thinks what they believe would be better for someone else.
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Bingo.....Remember when John McCain, a former Democrat who switched parties and became Republican ran for president they said he was too old. Well Both Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are older than McCain was when he ran. I wonder when they are going to say they are too old to be president? Even Hillary if elected will become older than John McCain was while she is in office. What are the chances her age will become an issue if she becomes president and runs for a second term.
It seems to me they insulted John McCain but nobody cared.
It is obvious the party affiliation and it's agendas is all that matters to the Democraps.
That's one of the reasons I want Obamacare renamed properly to what it is Democare since it's the Democrats that made everyone purchase a product or face penalties. Renaming it Democare would remind everyone who caused their cost of living to increase...the Democrats.
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Spot on, and if you don't happen to agree with their view your either racist or insensitive.

If you really believe what you just said, then you are a lost cause for sure.

How is it illogical?

Do you think the existence of guns make some people into mass murderers?

Don't know if you noticed on the link you posted, but Hate crimes have been going down in South Dakota and as of 2013 was actually below the national average.


....and FYI.....Fargo is in North Dakota

I did not notice that and good eye.

Here's North Dakota.
The hate crime index there is going up!
http://www.usa.com/north-dakota-stat...crime-rate.htm
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I think that if you look at Progressives you will find this is exactly the case!! It is implemented through the Soft Tyranny of making people believe Merry Christmas and Illegal Alien are hate speech.

Yeah, he noticed it in 5 posts above this. And he tried to wash it away with a lame reason that has little, if anything to do with observable reality. He said:
"There's been a decline because many people have probably realized that religion isn't really a free ticket to heaven. Children today learn far more early in life that there is no Easter bunny Santa Claus either."

I don't know of any religion which provides a free ticket. Rather, you have to work, at least in most religions, for the ticket. Religion in name only doesn't cut it. And neither the Easter Bunny nor Santa Claus are Christian doctrines. They are cultural and commercial fictions used to promote little bits of happiness and lots of profitable transactions. Whatever relation they have to Christianity is a distant in name only. Even less than that.

On the other hand, if there were a religion that provides a free ticket to "heaven," Socialism would fit that bill. As well, to a great degree, would its little cousin Progressivism.

I wouldn't presume to tell you how to live, because you are doing great and certainly would never bother anyone.

But the gang bangers in Chicago? It's not appropriate to tell them to stop living like feral animals? It's not better to suggest a more productive culture to embrace?

But you nailed it, liberals are very reluctant to say those things. I don't want to offend anyone or be preachy, but I'm not wrong when I say those people need to change their values. And until they do, we will never be able to address the violence that ensues. Never.

Why do Michigan and D.C. have higher rates of hate crimes than North Dakota? And why is Connecticut included in the top ten states in highest rate of hate crimes? Is religion the reason? And those three states have some of the strictest gun control laws.

If the precursor to a hate crime is a bias against a group or belief, then your bias against religion could, if you were prone to criminal behavior, make you a potential hate criminal. Religion is one of the targets of hate criminals.

And when religion is used as a tool by tyrants for control of people rather than a way of life by those people, then it is the tyrant, not the religion that is to blame. Just as it is the killer, not the gun, who is to blame.

In this country, religiously motivated murders amount to nothing, excluding Islamic jihadists. Two weekends in a row, there were 50+ shootings in Chicago. Religion had very little to do with it. The majority of gun crimes in this country are committed by people who have absolutely nothing in common with the Judeo-Christian principles upon which the country was founded. You think genuine Christians are committing a meaningful amount of street crime in this country, and that their religion is the motivation for doing so? I'd love to see evidence to support that.

If criminals don't care about laws why do people argue the death penalty is a deterrent?

If 50+% of gun deaths are non-assisted suicides, and there's no specific law prohibiting it, how are these people criminals?

And finally, what's a more effective weapon to inflict mass casualties, a knife or a gun?

It's moot now anyway, Jim's comment about North Dakota just put him back in first place :lama:

On their own no, but look at this most recent shooting and it's looking quite likely that the family attitude toward guns was a factor.

"Jim's comment about North Dakota just put him back in first place "

Can you be specific? Some folks here seem to think that tighter gun restrictipons will reduce gun violence. I said that the statistics of gun crime and gun ownership seem to contradict that, especially when you compare places like DC/Chicago to the Dakotas. My claim is that people who live in the Dakotas are proof that you can have lots of guns and very little gun crime. Why is that not a valid thing for me to say? Population density?

As always pal, it's very easy to lob an insult and run away.

Jim ,you should know by know that if you disagree with a #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& you are wrong.

Also to address the argument of "no one is taking away your guns"
While its true no one is taking them away, try to get one in Massachusetts, as many of already said, it's aint that easy! And if you happen to live in say, Boston, you could be waiting a very long time before the police department gets around to approving your LTC. If you believe in the 2nd amendment (which I know anti-gun folks don't so why am I even mentioning it) this is a problem, especially if you are a law-abiding citizen that has every right to defend yourself. What if a person fears for their or their families life because they live in a chit hole neighborhood and can't get a gun due to all this red tape? I'd say that's undue hardship and "suffering"

the death penalty is not a law...it's a severe punishment for breaking the law...do i need to explain the difference to you?

Its not a deterrent, it akin to taking out the trash.


A Bomb, Poison, or maybe driving an out of control car into a crowd

Actually, we don't really know what the statistics say because the NRA doesn't want any statistics to be gathered.

When the CDC was studying this in the 1990's they found that firearms in the household made it 300 times more likely to be shot and 5 times more likely a gun death by suicide.

Comparing gun law in Chicago to North Dakota makes no sense at all. It's not like we have borders, or equal demographics.

:deadhorse: please make it stop...I heard a car in the driveway makes it 437 times more likely you'll get in a car accident

See the Army of God for a fine example of Christian values. In central Africa the good Christians destroy mosques, in the name of God of course.
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That car will never kill anyone if a person doesn't use it.
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Add arson to the list and even though it's a stretch drunk driving. Imagine a bus driver being under the influence or for that matter a fuel tanker being driven while under the influence. Being a dart player I would suggest irresponsible bartenders over serving also.
And if we want to really reach how about people who knowingly expose others to deadly diseases, and heck some folks might even suggest second hand smoke. I know some of these are a stretch but they do cause a multitude of deaths everyday and we are not just talking about the occasional rampage shooter when it comes to taking guns away from law abiding citizens.
How many undocumented immigrants cause deaths each year? Technically they are illegal already aren't they.
I might even include drug dealers and even food or prescriptions that are handled or manufactured improperly and served or sold to the public in quantity since folks want to suggest it's not the person it's the tool or object they use.

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They aren't illegal to the left Ed,they are votes.
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That's true so perhaps we should put the left on the list also :)
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prev...auses_of_death
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Some interesting facts about suicide
http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-stati...ethods-suicide

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-metho...lethal-methods

"Actually, we don't really know what the statistics say because the NRA doesn't want any statistics to be gathered."

Actually, we do know what the statistics say, because they are released by the FBI. According to those statistics, gun ownership is much higher in the Dakotas than it is in Chicago and DC, yet gun crimes are much lower there. You are entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts. I posted the FBI states in an earlier post, and they are not ambiguous.

"Comparing gun law in Chicago to North Dakota makes no sense at all. It's not like we have borders"

Not gun law. Gun ownership. Gun ownership is low in Chicago, and they have 50 shootings a weekend now. The fact that we have open borders suggests what?

"or equal demographics"

You almost stumbled onto the truth there. It's not gun ownership that determines gun violence rates. It's the character of the people who own the guns.

There's nothing in Christian teaching that commands this. Zip. I'm not talking about bloodthirsty lunatics. I'm talking about your neighbors who go to Church and volunteer their time at local charities.

Yawn.

I may be alone in my perception but this is like the Muslims that don't take ownership of all the trouble that has resulted due to radicals or extremism. They didn't endorse the 9/11 tragedy but they cheered the act from the shadows. There are some "normal" Catholics doing the same when planned parenthood gets targeted and I suspect Jim is one of them. Some day he will be working intersections in the city with a bullhorn and leaflets.....
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Why does this Oregon mass shooting put the ball in the gun owners court? The same arguments that were put forth in previous discussions of gun control are repeated here. The latest incidence doesn't put the ball in any court. It just keeps the ball bouncing.

And then the ball eventually starts to be knocked into other courts such as poking at religion. And we get the usual contradictory swipes such as "what tool is used to control people for political domination" which disregards the opposing question "which tool (same one) is used to resist or escape from political domination. Or "what grinds my gears is anyone who thinks what they believe would be better for someone else" from someone who has said that if everyone followed his two commandments--be cool and don't be a jerk--the world would be a better place. Or implying that some Catholics, similar to Muslims who cheered 9/11 in the shadows, are cheering attacks on planned parenthood in the shadows--as if there is something peculiar to religious believers that is not shared by the rest of humanity. For example, some atheists cheering, in the shadows, various attacks on Christianity. It is probably a trait shared by most people to cheer for the home team, and be glad to see the enemies get poked. It is not a tenet of Christianity or atheism to wish harm to others, but there are so-called Christians and atheists who secretly cheer that harm.

None of that stuff is putting the ball in any court re gun control.

There is, however, a shadowy agreement that the problem goes beyond guns. Nebe says "it is the American way of life that is the problem." Jim in Ct says "It's culture and values." Spence wants to get at the "root cause."

It seems to me, however, that the court that gun control is being played on is not the gun owners court, nor any real agreement on true responsibility, but the court of politics. Who can milk the issue for votes, for power.

Tomahawks should be outlawed...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/son-said-...220209906.html
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Checkout the related stories at the bottom of the article.

it's pretty simple spence, the death penalty is a punishment, murder is still a criminal act, as well as owning an illegal weapon. LOGICAL

I thought suicide was against the law, in any case if they use an illegal gun it is criminal. again logical

knife or gun? serious? common sense

Take the money away from all that free stuff given to illegal aliens and pay for armed guards in our schools to protect our innocent children , how is that for common sense?

Yep

I know the antis think the armed guard is nuts, but the thing is it works!

It better than works..Purdue University broke this down quite a bit and the results were overwhelmingly in favor. http://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/relea...oter-tide.html

Probably why our president has a bunch of armed men around him at all times as well! :D

And another shooting today :(
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Our high school has an armed cop on duty every day since the mass killings in Connecticut...it is precautionary....I do not understand Y there would b one un armed guard at a college of more then 3000 students....is he/she going to throw books or pencils at intruders?

Also politics R jumping on Ben Carson for his statement about fighting back, dems R trying to destroy him....I believe the same as he does to fight back....in most schools students R taught to cower to a corner, this is okay if kids R real young, but college kids R adults they should have a plan to attack while trying to run out....yes one or two may B shot while running but Y wait to B systematically shot.

If they take all guns away what method will the lunatic rampage killers use? Check out the pain index in the "lost all hope link" I provided above.
Imagine if they used gasoline and a match the amount of suffering that would be caused. If it was to happen to me I would prefer bullets or explosives.
I have always said I would rather be at ground zero if a nuke was to go off anywhere near me. I personally prefer not to suffer and go quick. How about you?
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http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/20..._manufacturers

So what will the rampage killers use once the guns are gone? Imagine all the gun violence victims including gang bangers having the ability to sue the gun manufacturers for their illegal actions. The gun manufacturers will go out of business in this country. The only people who will be protected by GUNS will be tje ones who make the gun laws...the Democrats want everyone to be at risk, except for them and the people who can afford armed protection or have the TAXPAYERS pay for their armed gaurds.

I imagine they could use a fire starter that doesn't have much of an odor to start a fire causing much more pain for the victims and put the first responders at more risk.
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