That's old mis-information, not a "known fact". While it's true a bass may have less-viable eggs by the time it reaches the end cycle of its life (we're talking 65 or 70+ pounds), recent studies have showed a 40-pound bass has both several times more eggs (is more fecund) and more viable eggs when compared to a 20-pound bass.

I would love to see that info, can you give me the link?

Saltheart, by invoking the name of Mr. Pond you invariably lead anyone to believe that it can be reaonably inferred that he would have supported your view on this issue.

Now, that said, do you or anyone else here oppossed to the tournament fish the Martha's Vineyard Derby? It's one 28 or better inch bass a day, right? One bass for each contestant for the 30 days of the derby, if fishing was good. Now the OTW Tourney goes 5 months with two fish a day over 34. Hmmm.....

I like that. :laugha:

The Derby does not have a system that rewards aggregate weight. Sure, there is the Grand Slam that allows for aggreagate weight of your biggest fish in each of 4 categories but that is about it. On the leader board the biggest fish is the biggest fish - depending on division. Granted, some people weigh in 8# albies just to get a picture taken in front of the Derby Sign and I'm sure more than a few do so with a 32" bass to get "On the Board". Personally, I wouldn't do that and a lot of people don't. I don't enter the Tourney to get a daily but on the odd chance that pure luck puts me in the right place at the right time so that with luck and any sense of skill I may have gained over the years would let me land a fish that can place or win the thing.

Two different things in my opinion.

Other tourneys, like the MS Tourney (Formerly MDA ) for example, only factor in the top 3 fish of each species for each club and the duration is only one weekend.

I'll be honest, I do like the idea of this tourney but I think it needs to have it's rules tighten up a bit.

Twice now DZ has completely nailed this thing on the head!

Any Bass contest that emphasizes poundage over time... & long- range kills/ weigh- insto "win" is ludicrous & laughable.you want to have a top 3 biggest fish of the Tourney/ year, fine! Those fish are almost always going to be kept regardless... the CONTEST is not encouraging & creating their demise!

Anyone here like to brag about numbers of Bass you catch over time... or the biggest ones? Anyone here even target #'s over size? (Serious guys don't obviously)

You want to "beat" the other Clubs to a "win" by dragging in more poundage all year long-- as many 12 & 20 lbers as you can carry?? So you can hoist a "Trophy?" Really?? :huh:

I enter no Bass contest nor Tournaments ever-- I fish for myself & own goals completely, allowing me to be 99% C & R-- but I'd not be against one that emphasized size / best few fish win per contest/ year... vs. #'s & poundage kept! Either way like DZ I'd prefer someone running the Contest to benefit the Striper-- not Corporate profit: all proceeds to go toward anti- Reduction / pro- Pogy lobbying, for instance? :angel:

I agree with LeCounts. We should fish together sometime. :gu::

you are welcome down here anytime.. :ss:

Suppose we took our version of the " High Road"( if we could manage to agree on where THAT was before the tournament was over) and actually won something? Say we don't go for poundage but the one really good fish of a week or month? I have to admit that I hadn't read the rules before I agreed to (Asked to?) fish for S-B. The thought of killing 2 34 or better fish a week for points just sticks in my craw tho. I'll fish to fill the freezer, always have. Never have fished for points before, that makes things real complicated...

Krispy //
you stated that you want to how the other surf sharpies will be doing ///

whatever it takes // you,ll never know where or how the fish was caught [if] it was caught /////


Steve /I guess there where different times in the S/C //I don,t remember cOd or Squet // when I was in it =it was bass & BLUES /boat & shore // 5# for Blues 15# for bass -- 10 fish each division --came to 40 fish a month // that were culled as the month went along // also [WHO knows what fish were boat or shore :uhoh:

Flap ,I don't want to highjack what has turned into a most excellent discussion and I don't know about ...Invariably leading people or ....what they might reasonably infer or ...what someone might have supported.

I can tell you three things that I know for sure Bob Pond was concerned about

he was definitely concerned about the run off of fertilizer into the Chesapeake Bay system and in particular that that run off extended way up into Cental Pennsylvania and Lancaster County where he could make little headway in convincing people concerned about their religion and culture that they should reduce their potential crop sizes by using less ferilizer to save some fish with stripes.

He was also concerned with possibly relocating fish to try to establish spawning areas in other places besides the Chesepeake bay and Hudson River ( I believe he actually transported fish to the CT river but I'm a little fuzzy on that memory)

He also was in favor of Catch and Release as evidenced by the fact that he would always let me know that his people would be glad to rig my poppers with single tail hooks instead of the standard trebles (if I wanted) to make it easier to practice Catch and Release .

These are facts from which people can invariably be lead or reasonably infer whayever they want.

OK. How does this strike your collective chords?

If then we as a group do not support the aggregate poundage award, we do not fish as a club member, but enter as individuals only. That in effect would be our way of boycotting the club award for most aggregate points ie. pounds. This effectively would mean no S-B club entry, which would be OK by me, after hearing all your thoughts here.

According to a letter from Chris Megan , OTW , posted elsewhere , OTW is trying to come up with a solution to the concerns raised about their tourney and the conservation issues. Good for them for listening and responding positively. Lets hope it all gets worked out to everyones satisfaction.

:musc: :musc:

John--there are a number of people who weigh in 32" bass to have a shot at the daily "Mystery Prize". They'd do the same with small albies if they could. Personally, I stopped fishing for albies because it's very difficult to release one alive, and they're inedible--the fillet program won't even take them. Most of the ones caught during the Derby wind up as lobster bait.

This is an email posted on another site. It is a response sent by Meghan to one of their members.

Folks,

I very much appreciate you feedback regarding concerns over fish counts
and how they relate to the Striper Cup Tournament. I especially admire
those who can respond with a level head in the hopes that some positive
change can follow. I will and do answer all emails that make sense and
don't tell me how to run OTW, but instead communicate, insightfully, how
OTW may need to address certain issues and can help with issues facing
all fishermen today.

With that said, I am looking at the possibility of tweaking the
tournament without changing the period of time. For those of you who
use words like "slaughter", "game fish", or "fish kill" to describe what
OTW is trying to achieve with the Striper Cup, I imagine nothing short
of canceling the tournament will suffice, that's not happening.

Any tweaking to the tournament will be updated on our web-site by week's
end. I ask you all to keep an open mind, as many of you already have,
and be apart of the process as OTW works through the growing pains of
reviving the once great, Schaefer Tournament, while keeping a watchful
eye on the conservation issues of today.

To that end, state biologists from CT to MA have studied this more than
many of us and have determined that two fish a day at 28" can be
harvested throughout the entire season without harming the year
classes. I don't necessarily agree with that assessment and would love
to see that number be reduced to one fish per day, which the bass stocks
can and do sustain. It is the very reason we limited the Striper Cup
catch to two fish PER WEEK or less than 15% of what the state will allow
any recreational angler during the course of a week. For those of you
not familiar with the old Schaefer Tournament, for most of the years, a
legal fish was 16" and you could take as many fish as you wanted.
Clearly, we veered from the path of the old tournament by greatly
reducing the fish that can be weighed. It may need to be further
tweaked, but blanket accusations and generalizations do nothing to
further any of your collective issues with OTW. Consider for a moment
that possibly, just possibly, the management program was so successful
that today striped bass are literally starving to death with limited
bait fish to sustain the strong stocks. I'm sure many of you have
caught 42" and 44" fish that weigh 23-25 lbs? Just 10 years ago that
was nearly a 30 + lb fish. That concerns me just as much and it is
something we at OTW look at very closely. Yes, commercial fishing has
taken it's toll on bait fish, but that is not the entire story regarding
the dangerously low bait fish counts.

Finally, consider this; I am lucky enough to work in the industry that
allows me to talk, write, speak, you name it, about fishing. My
livelihood is derived from the fact that we in New England have such a
vast and diverse fishery. If I am not a good steward of our fishery,
not only have I lost my passion, I've lost the best job I ever had.
Give me a little credit guys and let's work together. I firmly believe
there is plenty of room to run a tournament that will not adversely
impact the stocks..

Sincerely,

Chris Megan
Publisher
On The Water

Mike
I have to admit I mirror your thoughts about fishing in your above post. Could not have said it any better if I type it myself. I too have never considered the SB to be something special. It’s always just been another fish to catch and I too enjoy them as much as the next guy, but I also have no problems keeping my limit when I fish. Fishing is about eating and my family and I certainly enjoy each and every type fillet that makes it to the table. Be it ground fish or game.

Karl
I certainly understand your comments about the accuracy of data that’s collected. I can’t comment on what people tell surveyors, what I can comment on, within the reports equations are correction factors to bring error within the data into a usable calculation. Is it 100% accurate? No. Is it reasonable? Yes. It’s science, and the type it is ends up being a very well calculated guesstimate. And a lot of decision makers heavily rely on it. If you please, I am in no way trying to defend it, or to convince anybody to its validity; I personally give it its due credit.

There has been a ton of great points brought up in this discussion, especially about other derby’s, one of which came to my mind, (not sure if it was mentioned) was the Shark Tournament on the Vineyard. Pretty useless fish kill in the grand scheme of things, yet not many jumping up and down about putting an end to that one. People’s passion about the striped ones is plainly evident. At times a bit over stated maybe but none the less, there is a very vocal group of bass fishermen that seem to sing the loudest all the time. And from what I have seen it’s always the favorable and politically correct C+R guys.
I have been trying my best to understand and maybe side with the majority on the board about the aggregate catch numbers. I just can’t. This may be a very unpopular statement I just don’t believe that this derby harms the bass stocks, and the keeping of fish that are caught doesn’t really bother me either. So long as the fish do not go to waste. I guess amongst reasonable men there is always room for debate. Big Dave

I'd love someone to find a source for this. I simply can't believe that's how they estimate the rec quota as he states. Mathmatically it simply does not compute.

-spence

Thank You for your answer Dave.

This is a great thread/discussion. If it ever ends I`m printing it out for the info. scrap book.

Megan`s letter sounded like they were going to try to improve the format for this year? Did I read it right? My comprehension is temporarily at a low level...I hope its temporary :D .

Will they have separate surf and boat categories I wonder.

Great reading,
Mike

So what you are saying in this last part, if I may be so bold as to assume this, is that Bob Pond, who developed a fish catching bait as devastating on bass that he named it the Atom, was advocating C&R because he, like Robert Oppenhiemer, who developed the real A-Bomb, felt a touch shall we dare say, guilty, of creating such a powerful weapon? Hmmmm.......

Anyway, talked to the magazine today and some changes might occur. As C. M. says in his e-mail. Irresponsible they are not and will not be but as some wise old bird said before, "You can't please everybody". Human nature being what it is there will always be critics. Hopefully this will put some minds at ease. Now I got to hit the cellar cause I got loads o' plugs to finish. Two weeks and counting.

I said it on page 2 and I think his letter say's it all

I'm glad Chris and OTW are concerned about constructive input. They're smart - without support from their patrons they have a financial disaster.
But lets remember - its not whether the bass can take the pressure of another tournament - that's never been the question here.

The concern here is whether the final score for the Striper Cup will be
3000 pounds to 2500 pounds when it could just as well be 300 pounds to 250. Both sets of numbers determine a winner - but the lower numbers are much more conservative and ethical in this day and age.
I wish them luck.

DZ

And now for a little levity
 

Considering reports from previous years about what has been found in large Striped Basses stomachs do you think they will allow using 9 to 13 " Stripers for bait?

doesn't state law currently allow ALL recreational fisherman to take 2 fish at 28" PER DAY???

i only ask this question b/c the rules for this tournament allow fisherman who register to weigh 2 fish PER WEEK. that would be less then the state allows, right?

if you have a beef, take it up with the state, not a fine publication like 'on the water'. i am proud to say i am a subscriber who enjoys each and every issue.

i say thank you to the editors, keep it up.

I was in touch with Gene Bourque, Ed. of OTW yesterday and he confirmed what Chris Megan said in his email to the site - they are reviewing the rules due to the adverse comments made here and in other places. Also, mentioned any changes would be posted to their website by week's end.

Clammer, I was talking about supposed sharpies, internet heroes and bait shop barneys :wall:
And "other surf sharpies" implies I am one

Good for them. I am glad they are reconsidering some of the rules seeing that they were interested in some of the public comment. The letter by Chris Megahn is encouraging and we'll see how it shakes out - good to see they are listening AND flexible :btu:

As for "Adverse Comments" made here and elsewhere, while I can't speak for much elsewhere beyond what I have read, the significant majority of the conversation here was good debate. Sure, a few people got a little, uhh, riled up, but that happens when you have nearly 200 replies and 3500 views in 3 days... But so far this has been good discussion.

I have seen discussion on this topic on a few sources that aren't widely public and they voice similar (and some more critical) comments on the current format...

Dennis put it best about the club "points" system needing to be addressed. Still encourage the club competition but bring the overall impact down to more reasonable levels.

I applaude OTW that they are investigating this a bit more... Look forward to seeing what the rule tweaks are...

{K}

what I meant is how are you {;really] gonna know ??/


did he catch the fish ---ie fish market

was it caught from boat or shore

was it caught in the time frame ============================= freeze it until the [right] time ...

seen it all before // :wave:

Oh yeah, I hear ya :skulz: But we'll see who does well consistently every month. :wave:

seen it all before // :wave:[/QUOTE]
Years ago the commercial rod and reel guys would freeze the bass they caught a couple of days before the season opened and then hit the co-ops in P-Town and Chatham like gangbusters on opening day.

Uh, the real question here is, Mike, how do you know about all the "shady" ways to win? Come on Mikey, fess up. You seem to be in possesion of a lot of this type of knowledge.:wave: :spin: :laughs: :hf1: :usd: :jump1:

What I like most about the discussion here is that most everyone actually read the rules before they expressed their opinion.

I wish I could say the same about some other websites :rollem:

i could see OTW awarding club points for the weight pins, ie 1 point for a 30 lb. pin, 3 for a forty lb. pin and ten for a fifty. The downside is that this would encourage the killing of the trophy fish, the upside would be less pressure to bring in the 34 inch fish for the club total. Again, not perfect, but....
I am finding myself in the camp of Big Dave in regards to keeping fish. I have stated before that I feel the SB stock is in good shape. I also started a thread called A Different Point of view that was from the perspective of the commercial lobstermen and how the lack of food for SB has drastically affected their livelihood. http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...ght=point+view

Question: Club competition for both boaters and surfcasters as one
group ?

If so, it may not matter where the bass were caught for the total point system. The club with the most boats will tally higher points then surfcasters but their expenses are higher.

Hope this all works for the better for whatever that may be.

Probably by an order of magnitude at least.

An interesting twist...divide the poundage in striper by the cost to catch :hee:

-spence

what the heck is a bait shop barney:confused:

girls all has been said ...u got the nod from otw,s publisher and staff about tweekin the rules + regs hope everybodys good w/ that ...now ladies lets put up or shut up ,,in or out ???yea or nae..lets put the baby to bed ....but if your out your opinion means $hit to me ...and if your in ,, may the better fisherman win....good luck ...dave

It's pretty clear that you simply didn't show up for finishing school.

-spence

thanks for noticing spence...how could tell ??? i just think some of the squirrels have lost too many of there nuts..back to yooooou spence ?

NO, it's not "put up or shut up" and leming on over to the sign up sheet. Scuttlebutt has an announcement later this week on OTW's website, a lot of us will wait to see what that is and make a decision afterward. Some people already made up their mind one way or another.

That's just priceless. I just don't know what to say. Damn world is gonna end if people don't agree with you...