You're leaving out the part about you charter guys that walk the line of being a commercial entity regulated as recreational fishermen being SOL as well.

Forget Gamefish Status... 5 tags per license, 36" limit and call it a day. Even for someone terrible at cleaning a fish, 5 fish at 36" should get them at least 25-30lbs of meat per year. Few families are eating 30lbs of striped bass per year. And if they are, they should stop because the fish isn't even all that good for you with all the toxins and heavy metals.

Well if noaa/dmf/vatican don't do ANYTHING then all the comms and charters will be out of business.

Think we need to look at charters a little different. Like I said earlier I looking at them as bus drivers taking recreational fisherman out to the fish. When I was a kid in the late 50s there were 3 party boats working out of the NJ Highlands where the captains had been fisherman and changed their businesses over to running party boats. Pre 200 mile limits made it hard even than to make a living fishing. A hundred years earlier thousands of people could make their living from the sea but just like many other occupations technology changed all of that. Charters may be the answer for still being able to continue working at sea for many of the small boat fisherman. May not be their ideal job but it is a job. But of course if the stock dumps down then commercials, recs and plug makers are all out of work.

I guess the head of ASMFC isn't reading his own stock assessments because they show a big decrease since 2004 based on the 2011 report.

"Abundance and Biomass: Striped bass total abundance and biomass were estimated using the SCA model (Figures 7 and 8; Tables 11 and 12). Abundance increased steadily from 8.3 million fish in 1982 to a
peak of 67.5 million in 2004 then declined to 42.3 million fish in 2010. Abundance of striped bass age 8 and greater, representing approximately fish 28” and greater, was lowest in 1985 but then increased to a series high in 2004. Abundance of age 8+ fish decreased from 9.7 million fish in 2004 to 5.9 million fish
in 2010. Total biomass followed a similar pattern increasing from a low in 1984 to a peak of 111,877 mt in 2002. Biomass since 2002 has declined to 87,771 mt in 2010"

So are you saying that if we make stripers a game fjsh that hou will goout of business sounds like a terrible business plan to me relying on a nonsustainable item for.a.ljving
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Atleast as a gamefish they may be.caught again
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No. I'm not one drinking the cool aid that things are as bad as these tree Huggers are preaching.
Also not talking out of both sides of my mouth.
We got some in this tread who have killed & sold fish for years (lots of species besides bass) and preaching about collapse.
Guess they found religion and are born again.
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Some people learn from mistakes made in the past and others never learn and just keep repeating them.

Well Raider I've always kinda laughed at the boston Harbor charter idea of gut hook with a treble n relese. seen it too many times. Sad way to go it. Just remember that a change in tactics or gear goes a long way to sustainability.These fish aren't throw aways just to get a buck. I've had loads of tag returns over the years that came off eel caught fish an plug caught fish that were released.Al Anderson has done it for years while chartering an he's still out there doing it. He knows that every one that swims away he has a chance of hooking again in a few yrs.Keeps the charters happy.I've taken many people fishing over the yrs that went home with some sweet pictures an left the fish swimming. not a bad thing. A change here n there goes a long way. Denial got us the last moratorium. People hear about something like that they don't book charters cause they think you can't fish for stripers. You do a little conservation changes and advertise it an it goes a long way towards business.Plus it helps there to be fish to chase in the future.

Let's be clear about "the last time"

Unlimited daily take with an 18" minimum size, unlimited commercial season, with legal dragging and haul seining caused the last collapse. (Not to mention massive pollution in the Hudson and Cheasapeake spawning grounds).


That's a far cry from 2 @ 28".

And I realize they still use nets in N.C., and I think that's ridiculous. If commercial guys can't get their limit down there hook and line during those migrations, they should find another job.

Let's say for the sake of arguing things aren't as bad as they are being made out to be, even still, wouldn't you as someone who relys on a fishery to make a living, want to make it sustainable so you can pass your business down to future generations? I don't get why would comm's and charter captains NOT want to do everything in their power to ensure they have a future making a living off the sea? Why the resistance? Why wouldn't you want to question if the stocks are in danger or not?

I'm gonna have to dig out the article from after the last crash where a charter captain regretted doing three 6 pack trips a day livelining bunker and piling big bass in the boat day after day. The super duper catch a pile of big fish charter guys are making a buck right now down south doing just that, you can see the pics on the internet in their ads.

If the 2772 permit holders who didn't sell one fish actually sold a few each, the season would be over in a week. Which would make the whole thing pointless.

There's more than one way to get across town. Just because we aren't taking the same route, doesn't mean the destination is different.

"Well Raider I've always kinda laughed at the boston Harbor charter idea of gut hook with a treble n relese."
Hey Ron,
You have never been on a boat with me and certainly not on my boat.
I hope you are not suggesting that we release gut hooked fish to die from my boat.

This thread has brought out some attitudes.

I don't know raider ron at all but I bet he is not a gut hook and release guy.
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The comment is pointed at the practice I've seen in the harbor on more than a few occasions while fishing in the harbor. If you don't do it great but you see it done out there .Yet it is rare to see anyone try to change the practice by educating others that it is a destructive practice.It's still practiced to this day by many. The point is that change is educational by all even when things are not our own practice. the responsability is even greater with a Capt liscence as people look up to us. When they see us ignore things like this they think we condone them too.I've had more than a few heated discussions with friends over issues like this as they're just plain wrong like yo yo ing.We need to lead by our pratices and actions to include teaching others what is good and what isn't.

I have only live lined a couple of times and did it with scup and 8/0 circle hooks. They worked just fine and we only had one gut hook out of probably 50 bass. I think Maine made it illegal to use anything but circles with bait, did MA change the law also, or was there any talk about it?

I was trying to be realistic, I don't think gamefish status is realistic, we can't even get length and limits adjusted. And we can yell all day long about points south and their practices but it's not going to amount to much. Better to focus on what you can directly affect now. Just tossing things around with others the last couple of days a bunch of good ideas have emerged and my eyes have really been opened regarding the depth of sentiment and sometimes lack of reason on all sides. Biggest obstacle to overcome is the sentiment "it's not us/me, it's the other guy that's doing all the damage" together with an entitlement metality in my opinion and I don't exclude myself from guilt in this.

It would take a paradigm shift, thats for sure.

Let's start easy
1@36"

Cut the commercial take coast-wide by 50%

I seldom fish bait, if I do it's with circles. Mostly fish single hook lures, jigs, rubber,tin etc. All the barbs on my plugs are crushed and the rear hooks on pencils are singles. I use fairly heavy tackle so fish isn't coming to me on it's side. Try to release fish while in water if I can.

I wasn't always this way, but if I'm gonna let them go I want to give them the best shot at survival.

I keep 3-4 a year, would rather cod,haddock,seabass,tuna,fluke,flounder and the list goes on. . . .





Once again the real issue isn't the slug of fish out there now, it's the low recruitment stocks behind them for the next 5-6 years.

Before any draconian measures need to be enacted, a coast-wide 1 @ 36 would be a good start. Let's them breed for a few more years before they get culled out. The end game would be better for everybody.

Just an old guy chiming in.

Rob I think a lot of states have talked about it. But there is still a lot of back room talk from some members of the charter industry that feel they shouldn't be limited as to what they use for gear as it cost them money ie cuts down the number of fish landed chunking.Most of the sentiment that has been against it has been from those makin a buck from it.

Most of the sentiment that has been against it has been from those makin a buck from it.[/QUOTE]

That's a BULLSEYE.:uhuh:

That's exactly why people want game fish status...because all the bickering over state rec/comm regs doesn't go any where.

-spence

Are there less stripers around now than there were a few years ago? Definitely. Does that mean that the population is "in trouble." no. We'll see what the new assessment has to say in a few months. I'm guessing the population in general is just fine, but we will have to wait to confirm that. Fish change patterns from year to year based on a whole slew of factors. Just because you aren't catching them in your usual spots doesn't mean the population as a whole is in trouble.

When any one of us can't catch them in our usual spots it means nothing. When collectively fishermen from NY to ME can't catch them in their usual spots it means a lot.........a real lot.

The population may not be in trouble (however you define that), but recreational fishing from shore most certainly is in trouble and THAT is what concerns most of us.

Good point. I do both and will admit that it has been mostly from the boat for the past two years. Why? The shore fishing sucks.

I'm of the opinion that the reason the shore is worse is because of the lack of small fish. I keep a detailed log and the percentage of fish I caught that were 20" or less was 8% in 2010 and 5% in 2011. That used to be the keeper percentage five years ago.

Why is the Striped Bass in trouble? How do we know they're in trouble. Because it's what is done to all fish. They're cleaned out. Flounder, Ling, Whiting, Cod, Bunker and Herring.
This is a surprise to some? Just look at the big picture and it tells on itself. So why do some think that there still is no problem? Look at the track record of how we just wipe it all out!
Are the Flounder stacked like they used to be in Quincy Bay like they were 30 years ago?

NUMBERS,,,,,,,,,,,,

SCHMUMBERS!!!

the major problem with science is that it works in reverse~~~

an event happens; THEN, it goes about trying to "prove/disprove" the causes/results of the EVENT.

the inherent problem with scientific data is that it can be manipulated for whichever intent or purpose one funds it to be interpreted by~~~

numbers, data, yoy, indices, takes, ALL THE CRAP gets gathered and thrown into a witch's brew and then gets regurgitated back to us lay folk, lawmakers, and licensees to be told whatever the MONEY wants to tell!!! follow the money when it comes to "expert" anything, and you will hear two sides to every datum report, three sides to most issues, and in the end,,,,,,,,,,,,SADLY,,,,,,,,,,,,,the entity with the most power and lobby wins the managerial decision.

this has NEVER been about the Species, the Forage, or the Ocean!!!

if it ever TRULY was,,,,,,,,,,,,,would we have experienced the FIRST crash? would a single Corp like Omega be allowed to decimate Menhaden so recklessly? would the DelMarVa waters be so utterly polluted by the Poultry Industry and the Hudson so damaged by petrochemical runoffs?

will we ever LEARN?? ask the Plains Indians about their beloved American Bison!! i do not think that we are crashing the SB Stock, YET!

Yup. Think about the management mandate: "maximum sustainable yield". Translated into real-speak, it means manage the fishery to the edge of a crash and pray that it doesn't go over the edge.

This is the exact problem with fisheries management as a whole. Instead of managing a species to make sure populations don't crash they are trying to take as much of possible the whole time verging on causing a crash.
Take winter flounder in the Gulf of Maine...how long ago had that fishery totally collapsed now we are finally seeing good fishing the last few years and management just almost doubled the commercial season limit from 510,000 to 1.1 million lbs. So instead of sticking with a management plan that has allowed the species to rebound and grow they are heading right back down the same path. How long before we see the same thing happen again?

Who are these people because I want to kick their ass
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they can't maintain cod and now stripers, but they protect dogfish to the point that there are so many of them :rollem: , that they are all around the same or similar size and chow on all the juvenile cod and whatever else they can eat, good thing seals will kill them too.

You might look at the numbers of fisherman now compared to then, the health of bass in the Chesapeake, the bait situation in the Chesapeake, and the number of charters slaughtering big fish all day long up and down the coast. I think you might find the total pressure is similar.

Don't forget the estimates that something like 70+% of the stripers in the Chesapeake are infected with myco.

Anyone who cares and has the time should step up and attend the Feb. 28th gamefish bill hearing at the Boston State House. Let them hear it. Typing back and forth to each other won't do a damn thing.

Go back to 2006 limits recreational and commercial THEN cut back another 33%

Rec -v- Comm is just rearranging the deck chairs.

The government has asked if you will attend the State House Hearing and have your say. If you think this one is pre determined you are uninformed. The State House is watching this one closely. Posting here means NOTHING. Show up and be heard or shut up because Democracy is not a spectator sport.

Blah Blah fcukin Blah...whine, whine, whine

Show up and be part of the solution...make some noise.