What an odd view of history you have.

Apparently you missed Atwater’s Southern Strategy, the role of the Southern denominations in the fight against desegregation, and the splits in the Methodist, Baptist and other Churches over slavery.
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well, they have the option of going next door to a liberal state, so there’s that. You left that out.

Some southern red states have been clamping down on abortions, and the women aren’t all
dying.

And if someone commits suicide, tragic as that his, that’s their choice. The unborn has no choice in abortion outcomes.

You can’t win this debate, you aren’t holding any cards.

Maybe women should stop sleeping with “dads who refuse to be dads”, and move a little selective about who they hop into bed with.

This is democracy. Your state can do whet it wants, other states can do what they want. Where is it written in the stars they liberals have to get their way 100% of the time?
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The largest cause of death of pregnant women is murder by the sperm donor
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"I guess this is the reason many states aren't making an exception for rape. Maybe the woman should just "lay back and enjoy it"

Or you could ask someone what the reason is, which is how normal people inform themselves. The reason, and it's harsh but principled, is this...if you believe the baby is a person at conception, then the circumstances of the conception don't change that. It's a principled thing to believe.

Is that a state house race or a US house race? Hope she loses whatever race that is.

US Rep Hank Johnson (D-GA), said that he was afraid that building a military base on Guam might cause Guam to tip over. He literally said that. And no one on the left cares, because it's perfectly OK when democrats say outrageous things. Just this week, Pelosi, the terrific Catholic, looked down at a little Hispanic girl standing next to her, then elbowed her out of the way. If Marjorie Taylor Green had done that?

Everything is OK when democrats do it. But all Republicans are responsible for the insane things that kooks on their side say.

The Chicago mayor said in public, "F--- Clarence Thomas". That's OK.

If you don't accept that bodily autonomy is an essential unconditional liberty, it's a waste of time talking to you at all. No other liberties survive without that one, more fundamental than property rights: if you don't own yourself absolutely, you own nothing.
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this has absolutely nothing to do with the principles of bodily autonomy. All that matters is the status of the baby.

we both believe women can do whatever they want,, as long as they don’t harm someone else. All that matters, literally all that matters, is whether or not the baby represents “someone else”.

Every other issue in this debate, is a smokescreen. unless you believe women have the right to murder anyone they want. But if you believe that the right to bodily autonomy stops at the point where someone else’s bodily autonomy is an issue, the. you and i agree on bodily autonomy.

we only disagree, on whether or not the baby is a person. When ultrasounds show the unborn actively fighting off the instruments of abortion, what does that mean to you? I’d pay to see you answer that.

And how do mandatory vaccines fit into your idea of bodily autonomy,
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Hmmm

So your religion says
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That's pretty accurate. But regarding abortion, no one denies that women can do whatever they want, as long as they don't harm someone else.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the idea of self autonomy or choice. All that matters is one's view of the unborn. The left never allows it to be framed that way, because that framing (the honest framing of the issue) paints the pro life crown as the side with empathy. Which it is, on this issue. The left might consider it mis-placed empathy, but the anti abortion position has nothing to do with the desire to enslave women, and everything to do with protecting what some consider to be an innocent human being.

The left never, ever allows it to be framed that way.

That's true, but also my conscience. My religion says that, but that's not why I say it.

You don't know the first thing about me. My beliefs determine my religion, you think it's the other way around. If the Pope announced today that the unborn aren't people and abortion was OK, you assume I'd embrace that belief. What I'd do, is find another religion that's the right fit for me.

For the 3rd time on this thread, I've heard OBGYNs tell of unborn babies trying, always unsuccessfully, to fight off the instruments of abortion. What does that say to you? Why won't you answer? This is what you advocate for, so why won't you address it? If you're so squeemish and uncomfortable with what abortion is, why do you support it so rabidly? Answer - because YOUR religion - liberalism - commands you to.

Six Catholic Justices decided this, it’s not religion🤷#^&♂️

A vaccine mandate doesn’t mean you are forced to have a vaccine. It means to participate in certain activities you need one. You can always choose to not participate in the activities.
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You just don't get it.

The SCOTUS didn't say abortion is immoral. If they did, THAT would be the Catholic position. What they said, is that according to the Constitution, its not a federal issue but a state issue. There wasn't anything remotely close to a judgment about the morality of abortion. That discussion will occur where it belongs, in the states.

Silly troll, it’s not my choice to make or yours.
If you haven’t figured it out yet, I never answer your silly questions.

Just because I’m pro choice doesn’t mean I’m pro abortion.
I don’t think anyones religion should be forced on another American, you do.
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Rowe v Wade stood for fifty years, until there was a Catholic majority on the Supreme Court.
I believe the majority in their opinion as much as I did in their confirmation hearings when they said it was settled law, etc.
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How long did the Dred Scott and Plessy V Ferguson decisions stand?

No one cares if you choose to hear things that no one said.
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by certain activities you mean.........like your job?

mandate verb
man·​date | \ ˈman-ˌdāt \
mandated; mandating
Definition of mandate (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb

1: to administer or assign (something, such as a territory) under a mandate
2: to officially require (something) : make (something) mandatory : ORDER
a law mandating recycling
also : to direct or require (someone) to do something
a commission mandated to investigate corruption

Rep. Lauren Boebert, R-Colo., is arguing against the separation of church and state, according to a new video.

Boebert’s comments came Sunday at Cornerstone Christian Center in Basalt, Colorado


Won’t see any outrage from the usual suspects
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I've heard OBGYNs tell of unborn babies trying, always unsuccessfully, to fight off the instruments of abortion


OMG how gullible are you? Now we have karate fetus self aware of threats bobbing and weaving in the womb
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Your clueless .. I’ve compared a believe and a disbelief. Of what those mentioned posted … Aka Biden’s shower habits…. In multiple threads . As a deflection

It’s not my fault you guys can’t do a google search .and find out we’re the stuff you post as truth comes from
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What did I get wrong? you don’t believe what happened on Jan 6th was a hoax or just the part Trump and his administration tried to overturn the election .

Or you claiming you don’t care ?
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Literally nothing in that post, that you tagged me in, is correct.....nothing. You just spout bull #^&#^&#^&#^& all the time and blanket apply it to everybody because they don't agree with your idiocy.

You see things that were never written, you hear things that were never said, you have no comprehension of what people are saying, then you post like you're the one who's responding from the intellectual high ground.

you’re denying they can feel pain? is that what you’re saying?

your post above is so deranged, so not even close to what i said ( hence TDFs remark about you constantly hearing things that are t said), it’s harder than usual
to decipher your gibberish.

again, the only reason why you routinely wildly distort what i said, is because as dim as you are, even you know you can’t respond to what i actually said.

Let’s be very clear…do you deny that unborn babies can feel pain in the womb?


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Now it’s about pain ? That’s not what you said do you read your own posts ? what did I miss . Or is this you just moving the goal posts again when called out on your nonsense

Jim how can a fetus have and concept of pain ?
Stop applying your self awareness as if a fetus is self aware it smell of desperation
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why do doctors often spank babies just after they’re born? do you know?

I shouldn’t be surprised that you’d be the only person stupid enough to deny that at some point they feel
pain. Doctors differ in when that is, but current estimates are around 15 weeks
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I'll answer for you. Doctors spank newborns (or used to), to get them to cry, so they can make sure they are breathing.

Why do you suppose that spanking newborns, makes them cry? Because they feel the pain. So if they can feel pain one second after birth, are you going to tell me you have facts to support the idiotic notion that they can't feel pain one minute before birth? You think amniotic fluid is a painkiller?

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/845410

So you edited this, but will you say why?

Here, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics, mentions fetal pain as early as 20-21 weeks.

And when surgery is performed on the unborn, they give anesthesia as early as 14 weeks "to ameliorate pain".

But you know more than they do. Right?

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/ful...43639211059245

OBGYN Colleague in Missouri “We are now observing patients with ectopic pregnancy and hemoperitoneum until they have a documented falling hemoglobin or unstable vital signs”

1:50 pregnancies is ectopic

Some of the most quickly sick - fine to severely hypotensive in minutes - ER patients had ectopic pregnancies. There’s no time to hem and haw and worry about legal implications.
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what percentage of abortions do you think are done because there’s a true medical emergency for the mom, and what % are done on healthy women who engaged in consensual sex, who just don’t want to give birth?

i have no problem with exceptions for actual medical emergencies, because almost all abortions are done for convenience. the data is pretty clear in that, as you said, Google is free.
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A major hospital system in Missouri will no longer provide emergency contraceptives to victims of sexual assault for fear of criminal prosecution of it’s providers.
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NH has no state income tax. CT has a huge income tax. I live with it.

Different states are different, Pete. This is what the people of MO want, or else they'll vote in new legislators who will do what they want.

Not everyone thinks like you. Why do you get to impose your will on them?

In our system of government, when dealing with a state issue, Missouri can do what they want, your state can do what it wants.

This event has really shown how much liberals hate democracy.

Why don't you go down to MO and run for office, or simply accept that just like you, they can vote for the legislature and political landscape they want. I promise you, that they have no desire to be more like CT. And they shouldn't be forced to.

Abortion is difficult b/c two positive values - women’s autonomy, protection of life - compete w/ each other.

Each side wants to promote one of those values. But each talks about opponents like they’re only interested in destroying the other.
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From a doc
SCOTUS was misinformed for so many reasons. One is that there was no IVF in 1973. In 2022, IVF accounts for 4% of births! By overturning Roe they also impacted healthy “wanted” pregnancies. Don’t believe me? Look up “selective reduction” and “amniocentesis”.
You may want to google Lung/Head ratio for Congenital Diaphragmatic hernia or anencephaly with giant omphalocele. Please consider the difficult discussions that I have had with my patients who discovered that their desired pregnancy has one or more of these congenital issues.
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Several national antiabortion groups and their allies in Republican-led state legislatures are advancing plans to stop people from crossing state lines for abortions. Model legislation is in the works.

Now the small-government, personal freedom Republican conservatives are showing their true colors. Maybe we could institute internal passports or travel permits, like all free nations do.
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I copied what you wrote , sorry didn’t edit a thing

Did you read the article

Current neuroscientific evidence indicates the possibility of fetal pain perception

Possibility A thing that may happen or be the case.

And it’s a letter to the editor . Not a peer reviewed study ..



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again, why did doctors routinely spank newborns the second after they were born? what was the purpose?

and the hell you didn’t edit that post of yours. you edited your words, after saying it was stupid to suggest fetuses can feel pain. it’s only a question of when they feel pain, current thinking is 15-20 weeks in some circles.

didn’t you say abortion should only be allowed until viability? why? why would you force a woman to surrender her right to bodily autonomy and healthcare decisions? and whenever you define “viability”, please explain to be why the baby is different at that moment, than he is an hour before? how can you have any idea when a specific baby is viable?
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wdmso, since you refused to comment on the topic of this thread, would you comment on the chicago mayor saying at a public event, “F—- clarence thomas”?
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Hundreds of Jews rallied last night for abortion rights at Michigan’s largest synagogue, Temple Israel. “Stand up for our mothers, stand up for each other,” they sing.
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that’s called democracy. i’m
fine with that, even though i disagree.

Pete, it’s you, not me, who can’t handle any disagreement.
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oh, and nice dodge of the topic of the thread.
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Said the guy debating fetus pain tolerance on the thread about the hearings.