We don't care?

I'm still trying to get over the "illegals contribute nothing to our Country" line from Page 1! Have to agree on the ground rules before you can work towards a solutions.

The way some people here talk illegal workers are nothing more than sub-human leeches.

-spence

They are not citizens and are here illegally, and they hurt the middle and lower class more then they help anything dude, just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong. Ground rules have been, and are still simple:
they are breaking the law, they need to go, how do we get rid of them.

If you don't agree with those ground rules then you have no business even debating this issue period. The little bit of money they do contribute in collected taxes can be easily consumed by the medical and other legal debt they accrue as a whole. So in the end, they are hurting more than helping.
They get into a car accident, they have no liscense, and no insurance, yeah they get deported, but the poor family who just lost there father gets the shaft. They lose their house and end up on welfare with nothing.

Bah, they are not hurting anyone right? This car accident thing was a big issue in Texas last year.


Point: When your here ilegally, no matter how good you act, because of your status you are forced to break a multitude of laws to function here, including drving a vehicle without liscense or insurance.

There are many who wouldn't agree. In 2001 Alan Greenspan cited a study before Congress indicating "Illegal workers (in Illinois) pay $547 million in taxes yearly, compared to $238 million in services used."

The notion that we should get deport all illegal aliens is clearly a minority position...

According to a recent NBC News/WSJ poll only 35% of Americans favored deporting illegal workers, while 61% favored letting them stay, work and pay taxes assuming security conditions were met.

Bunk, the majority of the Country and nearly all of Congress doesn't agree with your ground rules.

Based on what...an anecdote?

-spence

Same NBC/WSJ Poll with a slightly different question...

The minority is shrinking :read:

-spence

My ex-girlfriend jsut got her citizenship and her mom and brother hasn't gotten their yet. They have been here for more than five years when leaving Vietnam. So should they be deported, too?

Go tell that to Texas and southern California, The non mexican citizens that are being effected the most are the ones that should be listened to I am willing to bet that the 35% you speak of is based directly in those regions. all the Google info you drum up won't discount that. My father lives is Escondido, and they are just over run with illegals, hell there are deer crossing type signs on the highways with stick figures of people running and dragging thier kids!

It is illegal, no matter how much you google it, it is still illegal and should not be tollerated. Alan greenspan can blow me, there is no difinitive way to prove how much they put it, simple because what they are doing is illegal get it everything has to be an approximation unless they have a way of tracking all thier income, which is impossible becaseu they are ILLEGAL I hope you get to deal with the impacts someday, and lose your job to one of them or another situation. As a matter of fact why don't you just move to southern cal or texas and set up a center that deals with helping them out?

They are taking jobs from Americans, they steal healthcare, and your ok with that too. You should definelty relocate, your needed there.

It depends, how good is her mom's pho? :drool: :hihi:

-spence

that 63% is for LEGAL IMIGRATION! So am I, so is everyone here, do it the right way, or get the hell out

You read the poll wrong...the 63% is either supporting amnesty or legalizing those already here under a guest worker program.

Or from your perspective, rewarding bad bahavior :hee:

-spence

Funny, man.

Long story. I don't know what's happening to them now. She and I are not talking anymore. I haven't tasted her mom's pho. She works two jobs and her brother is working at the Whoel Foods makret in Newton and attending Mt. Ida college. I don't think that they are doing anythign wrong. They got their own jobs and are working their assess off to become full-pledged citizens. They were sponsored by her aunt and aren't in touch with each other for some reasons.

What's their immigration status?

-spence

Send em packin, cya

No idea.

Spence, seeing you like to cut and paste your posts, I figured I would go straight to the government site and get some info: taken right from this site

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html

This study is one of the first to estimate the total impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Most previous studies have focused on the state and local level and have examined only costs or tax payments, but not both. Based on Census Bureau data, this study finds that, when all taxes paid (direct and indirect) and all costs are considered, illegal households created a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion in 2002. We also estimate that, if there was an amnesty for illegal aliens, the net fiscal deficit would grow to nearly $29 billion.

Among the findings:

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.


Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).


With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.


On average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half that of other households, but their tax payments are only one-fourth that of other households.


Many of the costs associated with illegals are due to their American-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth. Thus, greater efforts at barring illegals from federal programs will not reduce costs because their citizen children can continue to access them.


If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.


Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status -- what most illegal aliens would become -- can access government programs, but still tend to make very modest tax payments.


Although legalization would increase average tax payments by 77 percent, average costs would rise by 118 percent.


The fact that legal immigrants with few years of schooling are a large fiscal drain does not mean that legal immigrants overall are a net drain -- many legal immigrants are highly skilled.


The vast majority of illegals hold jobs. Thus the fiscal deficit they create for the federal government is not the result of an unwillingness to work.


The results of this study are consistent with a 1997 study by the National Research Council, which also found that immigrants' education level is a key determinant of their fiscal impact.

If you read the site is also has some positive points as well, so this is not a biased study by no means, like they don;t collect that much welfare, well they can;t they are illegal, thy don't collect must SS either..they can;t they are illegal. this is site pretty damn good.

Straight to the Government site? What pray tell "government" are you talking about???

This is a think tank aimed at reducing immigration.

-spence

I keep saying I'm done with this then I get sucked back in. I think The Dad maybe right, but I guess in order to continue to post if I want to, I just have to make some suggestions as to solutions to the problem and I'm good to go. OK, I was just thinking, maybe make a degree of difficullty rating for any illegal immigrant who is caught. If he just climbed through a hole in a fence, hey, where's the creativity or danger in that, but if he built a human catapault and shot himself over the fence and landed unharmed in the US, well hey, I admire that kind of spunk. "OK, tell me again, you swam over, at night, in shark infested waters disguised in a seal outfit???? You are so in my brother, welcome to America."
Part of the reason this menagerie can't come up with a reasonable solution is because I don't imagine alot of us have any experience or background in writing international policy. To even fathom the volumes of intertwining solutions it would take to make that happen is incomprehensible to me, but I believe the lawmakers could do it if they put their minds to it.
While I don't condone the actions of illegal immigrants sneaking into the country, and I can understand, for example, how they or anyone who doesn't get health insurance and their abuse of the system ends up costing me money, but at the same time, I don't see that the guy who sneaks in, if he's not a criminal, just looking for something better for his family, probably won't ever have much better a quality of life than the one he crossed the border for, and isn't likely to be getting a top management job, or any job for that matter that isn't pretty near the bottom of the employment barrell and only because it was probably scoffed at by some out of work citizen who felt it was beneath him to do, how do I convince myself that illegal alien doesn't deserve to be given a break.

Your right I meant non profit. Still go do a google search on imigration, there is tons of facts siting both sides. So all the cutting and pasting doesn;t mean anything. Bottom line, they are breaking the laws, and justice is blind, this country has preached no greay ares with in the law, this situation has to be no different. Either make them all legal, or kick them the hell out. One way or another they need to be put on the grid legaly.

Oh and another thing, make them all learn english, and tell them to stopp waiving the Mexican flag in out faces, iof they like it there so much, go back.

I support amnesty for all speeders, after all they are just in a hurry trying to make a better life for themselves and thier families.

Not for illegal immigrants, but immigrants, did a Snopes check and found this to be true. Sound words from Teddy:
Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American ... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag ... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Yea, the US Federal Reserve Chairman, Wall Street Journal...must be the Liberal media right?
See attached :hee:

-spence

yea my $80 ticket should be revoked, we let illegals break the law so why cant I? Why am i, as a LEGAL citizen getting punished, and Paco who hopped the fence gets welcomed with open arms and then gets free %$%$%$%$ that i as a LEGAL have to pay for? WTF?! :smash:

Why even have imigration laws if we dont enforce them? Why go through the entire legal process if it really meens nothing? When we are rewarding people for cutting in line, why even have a process at all? Just open the borders and let all of mexico in. :conf:


The more i think about it the more pissed i get...:wall:

Speeding isn't really enforced all that much when you think about it. How many times do you drive down the road and see other speeders and you Skip... just look the other way :hs:

-spence

Hey Scott
 

You have some serious ideas for deployment of our military forces. So I would like to quote my favorite movie Colonel.

"I have neither the time nor inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post."

Go ahead and join up, then you can be part of the solution. Then you can make a difference.

I agree with pretty much everything said....but this one is up for interpretation.

This would put a pretty big dent in clubs like the Franco-American, The Loyal order of Hibernians, PLAV and other clubs that celebrate being American AND there own heritage.

I agree with this to some extent but I find it kind of unreasonable for us to expect someone who just got here to instantly speak English. English is not an easy language to learn if you've never spoken it before.

I've heard people say that they go into 7-11's and Dunkin Donuts and are upset because the person behind the counter can't speak english (which isn't 100% accurate, they speak very little English)....do any of you know when this person arrived here? Could have been last month, yet you expect them to lose there accent and speak fluent english by now. It takes years to learn the language and that is with proper training.....which I doubt they can afford on a Dunkin Donuts salary. They are probably trying hard to understand the language and learn it...but they aren't going to get much help from someone who is all pissed off because he had to repeat his order a second time....because the person behind the counter can make sure they are understanding it right.

I'll tell you right now, they may not speak very good english.....But I definitely don't get the attitude from them that I get from some White Anglo-Saxon pimply faced kid that speaks perfect english and is a citizen.

Well I'm off my Soap-Box now...

Nicely Said...:claps:

Letter to Senator Frist from a retired border patrol agent(NOT bull being spewed from the Senate)
David J. Stoddard

Posted on 05/03/2006 4:55:21 AM PDT by IrishMike

This letter sent to Senator Frist from a retired border patrol agent has more common sense than all the bull being spewed from the Senate, with the exception of a few sensible representatives.

Dear Senator Frist:

There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.

1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. 2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. 3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. 4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. 5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. 6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. 7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". 8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. 9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. 10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. 11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America?
TOPICS: Editorial; Mexico
KEYWORDS: ALIEN; ALIENS; BORDER; BOYCOTT; BUSH; CONGRESS; DHS; ELECTIONS; FRIST; ILLEGAL; ILLEGALIMMIGRATION; ILLEGALS; IMMIGRANTLIST; IMMIGRATION; MAYDAY; MEXICO; PROTEST; RALLY; SENATE
body of Letter............

Dear Senator Frist:

There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.

1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the Unit ed States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.

2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage.

3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than 20 billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.

4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents.

5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.

6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined.

7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.

8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.

9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another nation?

10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.

11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price?

For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here?

There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010.

We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.

David J. Stoddard

U.S. Border Patrol (RET)

Hereford, Arizona

\

SEMPER FI

I will accept your appology gracfully
I blew L4 out during boot in 1992. Everyday I wake up with pain you can only imagine sir. This picture is right after the my first surgery, only later to be followed my 2 more.

I don't brag about anything , nor do I feel I have to name myself anything in the internet to gain respect. I joined to go directly the the gulf, and not to sit on a boat.

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Now what were you saying?

Yeah it was wasn't it. So you served right?

Okay, i apologize. Thanks for trying.

I didn't name myself Navy Chief to gain respect. I named myself that because that is what I am.

I did alot more than sit on a boat during IF1.

Thanks, it really meant a lot to me to be a Marine, My grandfather fought at Guadalcanal and brought home 2 purple hearts, my uncle fought in vietnam.

There is not a day that goes by that I don't wish I could have served my tour, but when I came home, my grandfather was proud that I tried, and on his deathbed he handed me one of his purple hearts.

I love my country, and I would kill and die for it, anything I would suggest out military to do, I would gladly lead the assault.