Guys,it's enough. At least when presented with the accusations,the right leaning state of Alabama decide they would turn their back on Moore. The left wants to point to the fact that some folks still voted for him as evidence of moral bankruptcy. Ted Kennedy leaves a girl in a submerged vehicle to die while his pregnant wife is home and the left gives him his job back for decades to come.....please show some pride and let it go. If people really wanted to go back in time then they could easily point out the party voting disparities when Lincoln was trying to free slaves and provide them with basic human rights. Those numbers are nothing but ugly but that was a long time ago. 20 years is nothing but a heartbeat in history and will take time to heal.
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Men of character don't need to bully their way to the top and even if in the back of their minds they still believe men to be superior to women; they would never sexually harass, inappropriately touch or even consider raping a woman. I think any man who can beat a women or child, sexually harass or go so far as rape a woman; are cowards and not men at all.

Shame on either the left or right for contributing to this inappropriate behavior and double shame on those willing to stand by and say nothing or even promote a known abuser to a position where he can do more harm. To see the GOP do the right thing initially by not backing Moore, only to put their tails between their legs, when the poster boy abuser and bully asks them to back Moore is so gutless and lacks vision.

To those that say why now, why bring these up know, this has to be a politically motivated ploy of all made up accusations; I would say you probably don't know anyone who has gone through it at a younger age. I personally know three women who confided in me in their 40's that they were raped as teenagers or young women and not one brought accusations or charges due to the climate, the person involved and the crippling fear nobody would believe them.

It's common place for rape victims to become victims again, they are accused of dressing slutty, or by their actions (usually viewed from a man/pigs perspective) as asking for it and they are traumatized once again. One of these women was and is still to this day scared for life and will never recover due to the circumstances.

The fact that these victims are suddenly now coming forward has much to do with their feeling of community, this metoo movement seems to have empowered women who might not have spoken out, to shed the dark cloud hanging over them for decades. Are there some false accusations out their, there probably are a small percentage, as there would be for any accusations of wrong doing. I believe the majority and while I can't speak for others, any serious accusations on either side of the isle should be looked into and dealt with.

Looking back in the rear view mirror to attempt to judge today's actions based on past presidents, congressmen or senators makes no sense IMHO. Everyone used to own slaves, we grew up and decided that wasn't right and had a civil war over it. It wasn't all that long ago women weren't able to vote, we grew up and changed that. Wasn't long ago it was back of the buss for anyone of color, again we as a society have evolved. Times change and what might have been acceptable in the good old days for our fathers or our grandfathers, just isn't today.

Good strong men of character likely didn't abuse 40 years ago, 20 years ago or ten years from now; those that do shouldn't be elected officials. It was wrong for Ted Kennedy, wrong for Bill Clinton, Bill Cosby and the fact we have a president who likely would fit right into that fraternity is a sad state of the nation.

1960s 2017 its that easy


whats was acceptable then and now are not the same but i get it lets throw mud from 50 years ago

I don't see a strong connection between sexual morality and preserving, protecting, and defending the Constitution of the United States. Several whom you would call sexually disreputable have done a good job of protecting that Constitution. In my opinion, Trump is doing a better job of that than most of the recent Presidents, better than even the supposedly morally pure Jimmy Carter.

And, even so, Trump's sexual vulgarity seems to be overblown. It seems that he did not advance further than he was allowed after some initial attempt. If that is morally repugnant, than most men are. And that probably applies to most politicians.

Would you rather have a sexually pure Mike Spence as President, pushing for policies with which you disagree, or the run of the mill morally tepid politician who helps to politically get done what you approve of and desire?

I'm going to just set with this...good lord.

It was acceptable 50 years ago to abandon a woman to die in an auto that you had driven into the water? I was in country 50 years ago. It was not acceptable, unless you were Ted Kennedy. And it was not acceptable for men 50 years ago for married men to philander the way Jack Kennedy did. It's not the morality that has changed from 50 year's ago, it's that the media is far more willing to expose it and even overblow it now for political purposes than it was back then.

Which is peculiar since the media, which includes TV and Hollywood as well as journalism, has been, over the past 50 years, pushing for more and looser sexual freedom. It would seem that it would have been 50 years ago that the media would have been outing everybody, and that in this present age of media produced sexual "freedom," Politicians should be getting the pass they got back then.

But, no, just about everything, morally and political are turned upside down. The reason for that is what we should be in a frenzied conversation over, not this stupid stuff.

As usual, you got nothin.

Actually, the record is pretty clear. That you don't see it is disturbing.

I won't argue the validity of Trumps accusations, other than to say I think he's established a pattern that has been well documented and on tape. Go play any of his interviews with Howard Stern and others.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks and even admits on tape to being a duck; well I'm pretty sure it's a duck. Money and power will buy a lot of silence and doubt; I however have little doubt.....he's a bully, probably guilty of several counts of sexual abuse, we know of three rape accusations; at the least I'm convince he is a pig.

I'll give him praise for stiffening the boarders and slowing immigration by potential terrorists, I do however think he has done a piss pour job of protecting American from what I see as the largest threat to our way of life since 2011. Today what is the first thing Trump does before checking on anything of importance, he picks up the phone to call his buddy Putin to thank him for the high praise he gave Trump. Putin is playing him for the fool he his and all the while Trump does nothing to prepare us for future attacks by Russia.

Then he and his private political news outlet Fox attack the FBI and in intelligence community, the very people entrusted to protect us from the never ending cyber attacks that Russia has and continues to throw our way. Anyone even thinking of giving him intel that proves just that, just gets his big fat ego all upset, because it brings into question the validity of his election success. Dealing with him with intelligence information that involves Russia, must be like going ice fishing with only 2-3" of black ice. You think you might be safe, but say the wrong thing and upset the ego of the big child and the ice might break and your fired.

Sorry I'm not buying into your assessment of his performance to date.

I love you too :cheers:

that was great

yeah...Clinton served two terms, Ted=decades( 46 years)(and there are many more names to be added to that list)...Moore never made it to Washington and Trump hasn't even been there a year...might not make 2 years the way he's going

[QUOTE=detbuch;1133512]It was acceptable 50 years ago to abandon a woman to die in an auto that you had driven into the water?/QUOTE]

well...if you were a democrat...and then you got to run for president...I know...it sounds crazy...right??

The assaults by Clinton and Kennedy took place decades ago, yes. But the willingness of democrat leaders to ignore thisebtransgressions contnued right up until election night of 2016, when the gop elected a reptile and the clintons simultaneously became of zero value. In that second, liberals claimed to care about perversion. If Hilary had won, we would not be having this conversation.

Let’s investigate the claims of trumps accusers. If he did any of it, then we should deal with it, but not until then. I fail to see how that is unfair.
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I didn't think you would. But that would be the important discussion. This sudden outbreak of sexual accusations are ploys to regain power for the Dems. It doesn't impress me as a reason to vote for who I think will transform this country into something far worse than having lotharios in Congress.

I agree with much of this, but of course the current liberal concern about sexual harassment is politically motivated. If Hilary had won, the libs would still have a vested interest in protecting her, and I promise we would not be having this conversation. This is only happening because the kennedysbwith double digit IQs are all gone, and the clintons outlived their usefulness, and because of trump.

I don’t like the idea of punishing anyone based on accusations. Investigate trump, if he committed a crime make him face the consequences for once. If Lisa Bloom was trying to help accusers get rich for making accusations, that tarnished the credibility of the accusers. Right or wrong, it does.
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Go cry a river
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Have you actually been paying attention to anything except CNN? The implication that the Democratic Party has been clean for 50 years shows you have drank a lot of kool aid
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Wdmso, as recently as the fall of 2016, most liberals wouldn’t dare to criticize the clintons or the kennedys. Yes, the underlying acts were old, but up until last year, even militant liberal feminists like Gloria Allred defended the clintons and the kennedys. Up until last year, liberals very clearly put party politics ahead of women’s rights, so let’s stop acting like the practice ended decades ago. And if Hilary hadn’t lost, there would not be this fervor about outing abusers of women, and that’s fact. It wasn’t until Hilary lost that the DNC and the media decided that sexual harassment was bad. I’m supposed to believe that’s a coincidence?
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Sometimes you do, sometimes you think you do. But most people down that way that I know, many good people BTW, would take umbrage to when someone responds to something with "Have you ever been to Alabama?"

How do you prove before an election without trial / investigation by proper law enforcement agencies? How do you handle allegations that are personally or politically motivated? Unfortunately these allegations on a politician must be proven but if they are not proven they can still taint an election and if real and not proven then they unfairly burden the victim. Slippery slope, here is highspeedlowdrag graphite for you rails.



How sure are you this has changed: Up until last year? At least by those at the levers of power?

"How do you prove before an election without trial / investigation by proper law enforcement agencies?"
You don't. You can't. You can't prove guilt or innocence, which is why our country can boast the presumption of innocence. I say if all we have is accusations, let the election proceed, no one should be forced to back out. Then if an investigation/trial shows wrongdoing, they have to resign. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than incentivizing false accusations in every election..

"if they are not proven they can still taint an election and if real and not proven then they unfairly burden the victim. Slippery slope, here is highspeedlowdrag graphite for you rails."

Ugly, ugly business.

"How sure are you this has changed: Up until last year? At least by those at the levers of power"

Now that the GOP elected a possible (likely) pervert as POTIS, and moreso now that the Clintons are suddenly expendable, the liberals and the media can crow about caring.

Sexual harassment wasn't the same issue it was in the 1990's like it is today. Trump certainly has super charged the movement. As for Clinton, he paid a dear price for his very unethical relationship even back then.

But Bill wasn't running in 2016 and to hold his issues against Hillary wouldn't be fair to her at all.

it was for the victims....

I think you can dig a little deeper than that.

It wasn’t the same issue for liberals, last year, as it is today. The difference? The pervert in the Oval Office is a republican, so now all of a sudden, mistreating women is bad. If Hilary had won, your side would still be ignoring this. As with most things, liberal outrage on this issue is very selective, which means it’s fake.
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Hilary lied to protect Bill ( blaming the cast right wing conspiracy for framing him), and Hilary used her platform as First Lady to slut shame his victims on national tv. True or false?
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In other words, he’s got you and you know you can’t respond.
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it wasn't the same issue for anyone liberal or conservative... But Trump , Harvey Weinstein, bill o'reilly ,roger ailes, Rupert Murdoch. got caught with their pants down now its everyone's issue

and your stuck on Bill Clinton :faga:

curious choice of characters there given the field...Clinton actually had his pants down...when did Trump have his pants down?

No, I am focusing on Hilary now. She lied to protect bill, and she slut shamed his victims on national tv. And the people who supported her and her husband, lecture me about voting for trump. Spare me the fake moral outrage.
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He won't understand your point
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He has no point. He is obsessed with the Clintons ( a wife defending her husband and that sprites you) a
He refuses to live in the present . Or accept the reality of who's involved in this current round of bad behavior .. he sees accusers of republicans as conspiracy. But accusers of democratics are truthfull and rightous and prove liberalism is the cause. power is the cause of sexual harassment and assault not party but that's lost on john

So Monica wasn't coached to not was herbr blue dress ?


http://www.famous-trials.com/clinton/889-lewinskydress

Thank you for proving my point
Comprehension and context escape you
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I am only surprised it was this quick to get to DJT. I figured they would wait a couple weeks.

For the record, never sexually assaulted or worse anyone. Don't condone it and don't vote (knowingly) for people proven to have. We as a nation need to be real careful about this because people will use this as leverage against legit and innocent people (difficult for me to use politicians as innocent in the same context.

The technology on the near horizon will allow bad guys to impersonate people both audibly and visually blurring reality from technology and the most honest people will be under pressure from this

Is this what aboutism? Oh, that's right, you've done a bunch of what aboutism on other posts, but it's only bad when other's do it.

So, is Roy Moore doing his bad sex stuff in the present? Is Trump doing his bad sex stuff in the present?

Your last point highlights one of the most dangerous challenge we all have moving forward, technology allows anyone anywhere to put on the internet whatever message they want; the Russians have known that for years. Now that it might not be as free as it once was, who knows how that is going to factor in, unless the law suits being brought forward are effective in reversing that.

please dont bring facts into this are you crazy!!!