seem your not sure what it means "attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument"


I directly refuted his argument with Fact based link .. to something he says didnt happen

who said anything about their behavior being current this isn't the argument. but please keep trying to defend them


(peoples displeasure with such displays of bad behavior that occurred in past are affecting the present ..

definition of present : existing or occurring now.

Regardless of your verbal gymnastics, your post was a what aboutism.

Your the one who said:

"He [Jim in CT] has no point. He is obsessed with the Clintons ( a wife defending her husband and that sprites you) a
He refuses to live in the present . Or accept the reality of who's involved in this current round of bad behavior .. "

The "current round of bad behavior" is not current. The behavior is not current. There is no current round of Moore's or Trump's sexual behavior. It is old behavior which is being accused now. Hillary's and Bill's bad behavior did not stop them from being Party leaders. Neither did JFK's or Ted Kennedy's. And if, as you say here "peoples displeasure with such displays of bad behavior that occurred in past are affecting the present ..", how does Bill Clinton's proven sexual predation in the past not affect the present? Aren't some of the women he "assaulted" in the past still suffering from not getting "justice"? And so why do you say that pointing out Clinton's sexual behavior in the past is not affecting the present? That it's not, as you say, living "in the present"?

The Dems NOW saying that the Clinton's or the Kennedy's discretions were wrong and that they should have been convicted of something is too convenient (no political damage to the Dems in calling out the Clinton's and Kennedy's NOW instead of then when it counted), and, as Jim said, unbelievable.

And it is an obvious ploy to make it sound reasonable, even necessary, that we should do something, make some conviction or resignation happen, for Moore's or Trump's past supposed bad behavior.

Obviously you were right
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You might want to take a course in reading comprehension.

I can’t live in the present? How’s this? Presently, you are still bending over backwards to protect Hilary. Presently, I am saying that Trump is a morally bankrupt reptile who should be investigated and dealt with.

You are the one who gives a free pass to scumbags in their own party, not me.

Try. Making. That. Wrong.

Am I going too fast for you?

And it’s ok to slut shame your husbands victims? ‘Standing up for your spouse’ is what you do if your spouse gets sick. Bill was not a victim who needed an advocate, he is a serial predator of women.

Snack on that for a bit.
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or something you give/get at Christmas :)

You are the one who gives a free pass to scumbags in their own party, not me.


really ?? your to funny now your are just lying.. to deflect your obvious bias on any topic that involves democrats or when someone points out your conclusions are not based it facts or truth . you are a True Republican a 1 trick pony ..

your point is clear YOU took an incident from the the 90's and 60's then you attach Slut-shaming which became a thing in 2000 and applied to an argument in 2017 to attack only liberals with a spinkle of Trump to look not bias ..

Not sure if you know this Hillary isn't running for office and when she was where were you to bring up her slut shaming all i heard was emails and Benghazi why is that?

They were wrong the day they happen and still are . the idea that they are not and they were not punished .. is another conservative urban legend ! Ted Kennedy plead guilty. and the House of Representatives approves two articles of impeachment against President Bill Clinton, charging him with lying under oath to a federal grand jury and obstructing justice.

so please spare me there was no "justice" for their actions ?

It’s not an ancient incident, if as of yesterday, you are still saying that Hilary didn’t do anything wrong.

I’m nowhere near a gop drone - i suporybgay marriage and gun control, and I am opposed to the death penalty. And unlike you, I can point callnout scumbags on my side, and I want them OUT.
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I like when Wayne accuses Jim of being biased when it comes to his party. Like it's a bad thing that he would never consider.
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No there’s no way of knowing which way he leans, he’s right in the center.
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If you consider "justice" for those women assaulted by Clinton to be a Congressional slap on the wrist (for something secondarily being related to his assaults) and his continuing to remain in power and to get wealthier because of that power, and, as well, his wife who rubbed salt in the wounds inflicted by her husband, gaining power and wealth as well, if you consider that "justice," then what do you consider justice would be for Trump?

And to the liberal apologists who say that there’s no use bringing up Bill Clinton because his abuse isn’t recent...when was Roy Moore accused of behaving inappropriately? I thought his alleged acts also occurred many years ago?

Your hypocrisy has no bounds, and you have no shame. When outrage is so blatantly selective, it’s also fake.

We need One set of rules/standards applied to both parties. Is that really beyond our grasp? Shame on us if it is.
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So when are the cons. going to force Trump to resign or why hasn't he announced that he will not run for re-election? BC if those 2 things don't happen your hypocrisy has no bounds and you have no shame since the liberals have already done that.

That's the trick. Get rid of a couple of which won't hurt the party's power position, then use that as some supposed moral reason to ask the other party to lose key positions which will help your party's return to power. Like a chess game, give up a few pawns or castles to check mate the King. It's a BS trick and anyone who falls for it is a fool.

Why the hell should he resign as if now? Nothing but allegations. If there’s credible evidence, let’s investigate.

Paul, TONS of influential republicans have been critical of trump. Did that happen with bill or Hilary? No.

True or false?
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All the liberals w/accusations have either resigned or have said that they will not run for re-elections due to the pressure being put on them. Trump has been accused and neither of those 2 has occurred.

Your quote was “Your hypocrisy has no bounds, and you have no shame. When outrage is so blatantly selective, it’s also fake.

We need One set of rules/standards applied to both parties. Is that really beyond our grasp? Shame on us if it is.”

Seems like the liberals have a set of standards and cons. another (lessor) set of standards. Looks to me any cons. w/outrage is blatantly selective - appears fake to me (also appears hypocritical and thus you have no shame).

this is hilarious

and....don't hold your breath

Franken might still change his mind and Conyers is still looking for his pants

Oh, Hilary has said that because if scandal she won’t run again? I missed that announcement.
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She was accussed of sexual assault or being a pedophile?

Ah that's right she was by the right. Comet ping pong!

Paul, when did liberals and the media suddenly start caring about making sure that elected officials treated women with respect? Before the ascendance of trump, or after?? When Hilary ran in 2008, no one gave a damn that she was married to a predator, lied to protect him, and slut shamed his victims. When she ran in 2016, only a year ago, no one cared about those things. Now that she and her rapist husband are f no more use, then and only then, does the media care.

There is zero chance we’d be discussing this if she had won. Zip. If you didn’t call for bill to resign, you have exactly zero moral authority to ask trump to, and that’s even if he admits wrongdoing.
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She didn't "slut shamed" She defended her husband as they both had been lied about for years and years by the right (maybe she did kill vince foster??). As has been stated, we (the collective we) did a crappy job dealing w/claims of sexual assualt and impropriety (back even bf Anita Hill). Times change and in this case for the better.

Don't tell me about moral authority when you seem to have no problem not calling for Trump to resign when the left called for Franken to resign. 650K Conserv. in Alabama just told us where their "moral authority" lies.

Bottom line - the conserv. have zero moral authority on this issue as long as Trump is still in office and no on calls for him to resign. The Dems have outplayed the Repubs on this issue and are showing they have zero moral authority. If you want to make the claim that both parties are equally crappy, I might agree but I doubt you are capable of making that claim.

who wants moral authority?

Exactly. Trump doesn't. Nor does he pretend to. Apparently the Dems now all of a sudden want it and claim that they have somehow made the big switch, like their fake claim that the Southern politicians made a switch on a dime from Democrat to Republican because of Nixon's Southern Strategy.

Nor is there actual evidence of Trump being as depraved as he is characterized by those who hate him. Someone mentioned the Howard Stern interviews with him as showing what a sexual pervert he is supposed to be. So I watched several of them. He was pretty consistently classy. He didn't really admit to all the stuff that was asked by Stern's typical sexually deviant questions. It was Stern who was, as usual, crude and intentionally provocative. Trump said he was always personally respectful to the ladies in his beauty contests. As the owner of those contests, he went into some dressing rooms for various reasons and saw some really beautiful women, wink, wink. OK, but he didn't harass them. With Stern, the interview will usually turn to some perverse sexual conversation. But that's on Howard. His guests go along with the banter. They were the type of interviews and answers one would expect on a Howard Stern show. Most macho men will wink, wink, along with mostly and intentionally false bravado to add to the entertainment.

Stern tried to push Trump in one video to say that he would leave Melania if she became disfigured, or fat and sagging from pregnancy. Trump insisted, in probe after typical Stern probe, that he would not. That she was special beyond her beauty, and would never leave her. Trump supposedly, according to a CNN clip, allowed Stern to call Ivanka a nice piece of a**. I saw that interview. Trump did not "allow" it. Stern does what he wants. Those who go on his show know that beforehand. Trump did not "agree" with Stern's remark. He, barely audibly because Stern was still finishing his remark, said nah, and went on to praise his daughter. You could see the beginning, in those Stern interviews, of Trump's view of the media being fake news.

There were two short videos cobbled by CNN with examples of supposedly crude or sexist Trump comments in the Stern interviews. I had actually watched the full interviews, and the out of context snippets shown by CNN distorted the tone and meaning of the whole conversations.

In the Billy Bush little dialogue, Trump said some women would "allow" you (which is the opposite of assault), if you were rich and powerful, to put your hands on their you-know-what. Which it seems is true. He didn't say he actually did, but one might assume he may have. And he admitted that he was interested in the lady in question, but when she didn't reciprocate, he went no further.

If you want to consider that all to be depraved in the context of the milieu that Trump travelled, you're probably either naïve or ignorant.

And that behavior in that milieu goes back to the beginning of that milieu. And a lot of our politicians, and several Presidents, have come from that milieu. As well did our media moguls and their star talking heads. As we are discovering.

But what Trump does want, not moral authority, but to change the nature and direction of our federal government. And while we are directed to focus on the junk, like that in this thread, he is doing, without much help and with great resistance, quite a bit of changing. The junk is meant to distract us from what he is accomplishing, and to bring him down in order to stop it and get back to creating that all powerful government we so desperately want and need.

Hoo boy.

Take a breath.

I breathing quite fine thank you.

Hoo boy.

Holiday party Jeff?
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Care to add anything of substance?
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You tell me which of these is wrong...


She stayed married to a predator.

She lied to protect him (saying he was innocent, and that the vast right wing conspiracy was framing him)

She used her platform as first lady, to slut shame his victims on national TV.

Are those actions consistent with what liberals are saying (today) that we should be doing?

True or false, Paul? True or false?

Liberals are saying 'silence is consent'. She was a lot more than silent on the issue, she clearly sided with the abuser, and she did it out of greed and ambition.

And in one of the truly great deliveries of justice ever, the most inevitable presidential candidate since the invention of the word 'inevitable', is now wandering the woods alone, blabbering like an idiot, doing infomercials for her book.

Good riddance to bad garbage.

"She didn't "slut shamed""

Oh. So when she referred to Bill's victims as "loony tunes narcissists", that was what?

"She defended her husband"

And what did she defend, exactly? His right to prey upon women...

"Times change and in this case for the better. "

Ah. And the fact that liberals didn't change their tine on abusing women, until Trump was elected and the Clintons became refuse, is what? A coincidence? As I said, selective outrage, is fake outrage. Not long ago, the pigs in Hollywood, led by Meryl Streep, gave a standing ovation to convicted child rapist Roman Polanski. I have something to learn from these hedonistic sodomites about how to treat women with respect?


"Don't tell me about moral authority when you seem to have no problem not calling for Trump to resign"

I said let's investigate.

There was photographic evidence of what Franken did, and he admitted it. You show me photos of Trump abusing women, I will scream at the top of my lungs for him to step down.

"The Dems have outplayed the Repubs on this issue"

Oh my yes, whch explains the results of all the elections since last November, of which the GOP lost one, and won several.

I cannot wait for 2018. The DNC is crapping their pants.

Oh. So when she referred to Bill's victims as "loony tunes narcissists", that was what?

That's not sluts shaming. You've been reading into the sleazy Republican narrative so long it's clouded your mind. You should do a little research on what the woman accuses Hillary of doing to them.

"She defended her husband"

And what did she defend, exactly? His right to prey upon women.

The sleazy Republicans lied so much and for so long about the clintons that she didn't believe them. Do you think they had Vince Foster killed LOL. Maybe the clintons vandalized Wiley's car or threw a dead cat on her porch or whatever the other things they've accused the clintons of doing.

"Times change and in this case for the better. "

Ah. And the fact that liberals didn't change their tine on abusing women, until Trump was elected and the Clintons became refuse, is what? A coincidence? As I said, selective outrage, is fake outrage. Not long ago, the pigs in Hollywood, led by Meryl Streep, gave a standing ovation to convicted child rapist Roman Polanski. I have something to learn from these hedonistic sodomites about how to treat women with respect?

Those moral conservative had no problem electing a vile person who bragged on tape about assaulting women and walking in on naked women.

"Don't tell me about moral authority when you seem to have no problem not calling for Trump to resign"

I said let's investigate.

What's to investigate? we have him on tape bragging about assaulting women. How many times do we have to repeat it? What is more clear than his own voice on tape?

There was photographic evidence of what Franken did, and he admitted it. You show me photos of Trump abusing women, I will scream at the top of my lungs for him to step down.

You mean the picture of Franken with his hands hovering over a woman's breast but not touching them? You seem to be ignoring Trump's own words. In a court of law tape of someone's comments is very good evidence in case you didn't know that.

"The Dems have outplayed the Repubs on this issue"

Oh my yes, whch explains the results of all the elections since last November, of which the GOP lost one, and won several.

No that just shows that the Republicans did not care about all the assaults that Trump committed. As we've said many many times previously they had many people they could have chosen instead they chose somebody who brags about assaulting women. He thinks it's a joke and you moral conservatives elected him without giving it a second thought.

I cannot wait for 2018. The DNC is crapping their pants.
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Hoo boy should meet your standards
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Cracks me up that the core keeps waving the Trump flag, spouting the
party line and screaming foul over all the "fake news" and "fake accusations" the media puts out to tarnish the very fragile ego of Donald Trump. Inappropriate sexual conduct by Trump is far from his number one character flaw, but it's certainly in the top ten. I love all the fake news crying by Trump, when he in fact is the biggest liar and tweeter of untruths that we have seen in quite some time.

I personally don't have the time to fact check and view Stern interviews, as I understand there are over 15 hours and well over 100,000 spoken words, I've heard enough choice samples of those, along with the access Hollywood tape and all the filth coming out of his mouth throughout the campaign to form an opinion. I have no doubt many if not the majority of the accusations have some truth in them. Hey if you have the time and nothing better to do have fun, I may return in time to read your blue, red or yellow font of the day retort. If not I'm sure it will be extremely well thought out, highly researched and a very articulate response to somehow convince me my opinion must be in error.

I love the most recent lie coming out of his mouth, that the tax bill is really going to hurt Trump and his family, are you kidding me; he must take the average citizen to be an idiot if we believe that statement. If the discourse over the nuts and bolts of the bill are correct, the core that elected him are going to get the screwing once the rates go back up, if not immediately. Not to mention the hit to the deficit their children will inherit. Guess who pays for those ER or EMS services to the soon to be uninsured with the mandate going away.

Then today he's back campaigning and suggests the need to really rebuild our infrastructure after watching one of his 8 hour daily (don't you have a fing job, I'm retired and have time for a couple hours daily) TV viewings and catching the news about the Amtrak derailing; just where is that money coming from? I hope all the core Trump supporters are buying into this trickle down economics reasoning, all I can say is thank God I'm out of the work force and not worrying to much about taxes at this point. Russia is one of the few places on earth willing to loan the Trump family money, possibly his new found love Putin can throw us some infrastructure money; because I don't think the deficit can take another hit.

Did you happen to watch 60 minutes yesterday, that show was so on point and yet we are about to give the corporate pharmaceutical industry drug dealing SOB's who created the opioid problem a big Xmass present and pat on the back. One of the other interesting pieces was pointing out (I"m sure you will fact check that for me) that there were 74% more deaths in this country at the hands of white supremacist than radical Islamics. So while I agree that boarder security and proper vetting of immigrants is important, you would think the POTUS would do a better job at not contributing the divide that is in fact causing more trouble at home.

Don't get me started on show me your taxes Donald and if I hear him say there is no collusion one more time, I'd have to suggest to him; it ain't over until the fat lady sings. Even if you believe this clown (sorry that's my opinion) can clean the swamp (frankly I think he just really added a very foul odor to it), do you think he is the man you can trust with foreign policy and dealing with a world threat like NK or the middle east? He has shown the littlest things upset his ego, I only pray there are people serving in our military that will keep that child in check.

Twas the night before Xmass and all through the white house, not a creature was stiring not even Donalds spouse.

His tweets had been crafted with his usual care
in the hopes that tomorrow nobody would be spared.

When out on the lawn there rose such a terrible clatter
it interrupted a tweet so Potus sprung up to see what was the matter.

The partisan children would all snuggled in bed
with some hoping a new tax bill would bring in some bread.

Well you can fill in the blanks, but I suspect some of you children aren't getting those new shiny raises Trump suspects corporate american is going to hand down in thanks for the tax break.....coal all around....sorry Trump loves coal.....haha.

Paul,She believed them. It wasn't the first time she heard he was banging anything that had a pulse,nor the last. Fair is fair,let's not act like it was an isolated incident.
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" That's not sluts shaming."

Oh. When Hilary goes on national TV and attacks the character of the women who accused Bill...you don't call that slut shaming. OK, pray tell, what is it, exactly?

"The sleazy Republicans lied so much and for so long about the clintons that she didn't believe them"

Oh, so she was pushed to lying by the "sleazy" GOP! Of course! Tell us, when she lied about getting shot at in Bosnia, can we assume that was also the fault of Republicans?

"we have him on tape bragging about assaulting women."

Did he admit to a specific crime?

"What's to investigate"

So in your mind, once allegations have been made, trials are unnecessary? Tell that to the Duke lacrosse players.

"In a court of law tape of someone's comments is very good evidence"

Let's have the trial or investigation (like with Hilary's emails), present evidence on both sides.