...and......the well respected Marine Explorer.....Jacques Cousteau was not a big fan of recreational sport fishing....his views on food fish(i.e. striped bass) is a necessary supplier of needed protein......with a sucessful and sustainable fish management program-which is in place under the auspices of ASMFC......and..what is on the horizon is not good news for all involved in the multiple use striped bass resource........MPAs and other fishing restricted zones for the Atlantic coast...possible closures of major onshore, near shore. and offshore areas that are currently being utilized by both recreational and commercial fishing interests....not to mention enviro/animal rights groups waiting in the wings to pull the plug on all uses...............

Hey Sandman do you ever read anyones posts and attempt to understand what the other guy's opinion is, like most of the other posters in this debate, or do you just like to hear yourself repeat your same old tired mantra. Since I did read your post let me respond to your latest diatribe:
1st - a simple look at the economics of your 3 a day limit proposal would convince most of the obvious flaw in that logic. More costs, more fuel, more man hrs....same quota.

2nd - Well my "math challenged" friend do you really think the entire commercial fleet consists of the 60 boats fishing in "your" spot. Now let's see..a million pounds/20 lb. avg. = 50,000 fish/60 boats=833 fish ea. boat/30 = 27.7 for each boat for virtually every day of the season....roughly 16,000lb. a boat. A quick look at the permit/catch data previously posted shows this is BS. If I'm wrong be assured there will be 61 boats there nxt. year.

3rd - We're also killing all the bunker....never mind..this is just to far from reality to even comprehend.

4th - So instead of a regulated R&R fishery you would rather see the draggers sell their bycatch...of course then the bycatch just might turn into the target species. We wouldn't want to address the bycatch issue on it's own...just give these "few" guys the quota to catch....while they're dragging in the sacred EEZ and shut out the other couple of thousand guys who just may also rely on that income.

5 - Juicy, bogus tax write offs? I guess you never filled out a small business return...what was that about some type of log books you sell?

6. Charter fish = commercial catch. So I guess that means...Sandman can't catch a fish in his new boat (only because the new rig isn't ready for sea of course) so he charters w/CowHunter to catch his 2 and those are now commercial fish? Tell that to the restaurant who wants to sell that fish, the tourists who want to eat it or the guy who works in the fish market.

7. Most comm this.... most comm. that...Well Karnac...I would say that mostly you don't have a clue about most anything we're about.

Bottom Line
 

I can understand commercials if fishing is the main source of income for the family. If you fish commercially to reduce the costs of boating or just do it to make money its not right. All I know that I fish like a bandit for a keeper and then let it go. You commercials if you had your way would destroy a beatuful wild creature to line your pockets. And dont give me the argument that you are entitled to your fair share as you have in the past. When our ancesors came to this country they fournd it to be a virgin wilderness with wild game for all. You cant just go into a national park and take as many as you want. We have reached a point where commercial fishing and hunting should not be legal. Market hunting for ducks has been banned for a great many years. It is not legal to sell trout and other game fish in any state that I know of. Bottom line if people want to eat striped bass they should be raised through aqua-culture not through the destruction of a wild symbol of our nation that brings pleasure to millions of Americans rather than making a bunch of people with other jobs rich. Yes I want you guys put of of bussiness before you destroy the resource.

"or just do it to make money its not right"

HUH??

Personally I fish commercially so I can argue with guys who sound like they took a wrong turn @ the PETA web page.

So let me get this straight. (please insert any name for "I" ) I bust my hump all work week long to make my living for myself, family, community, etc. I have the good fortune to own a boat, maybe, and have the skill to catch a legally marketable fish. So, in the course of a season I can put, say 5K, 10K, 15K worth of fish on the market. Because I bust my hump for 50k at "work" I should not be "able" to get a license and sell fish. Who are you kiddin?

Since when did a bass become some almost holy symbol? It's a fish.

Farm raised fish taste like chit....

<<Most comm R&Rer's just don't see the the beauty of the SB and don't think of it as a special fish that should be around for EVERYONE to catch, not to remove at some bogus maximum yield theory for the benefit of a few. It is just something to catch and sell to them>>

I resent that statement....I have been fishing for striped bass for close to 40 years, (commercially);I have fished recreationally during that time for bass (when commercial seasons are closed), because I love to fish, i.e., on the water at sunrise, fresh air, exercise, etc. I LOVE everything about bass fishing....and if I can make a legal, supplemental income off of that, to give a person who does not have access to that resource the right to walk into a seafood market or restaurant, have a bass fillet to eat, just adds to the whole experience. After all, it is "a special fish that should be around for EVERYONE to catch". Suffice it to say, you said it in your own words.....Its a shared resource for all.

I, and others like me, abided by the moratorium of the early 80's; we knew that it was needed for the health of the fishery. We also knew the plan would work, and the bass would recover, and that quota's would be devised based on historical catch records for individual states. That has come to fruition. The bass are a recoverd species...with up and down cycles that have been recorded since records have been kept.

As an aside, I attend various marine fisheries mtgs, public hearings, advisory panels, and I am so appreciative of the scientists and biologists of our state agencies to work to solve all the various problems that are involved with marine fisheries. These people for the most part are smart, dedicated people. They do care.... the tools of their science (data modeling, sampling, computer-aided tools, on the water analysis/dragging) are constantly being utilized....It's a shame that they sometimes get a bad rap by people who don't take the time to get to know them...

Weighing in: MAKE STRIPED BASS A GAMEFISH!
 

The striped bass commercial fishery is a disgrace...it is a disgrace of the democratic principle of will and benefit of the majority, and the idea of a public resource protected for the greatest good of the greatest number. The commercial fishery is a disgrace of management, enforcement, and the reluctant compliance of its participants... to which I refer to the Buyers, the Counters, the Middlemen of all levels, as well as the R&R suppliers. Kill this commercial fishery.

Yep , if we could do that we could solve about 90% of all the worlds problems. The tough part is how? :)

Crafty is on to the answer. Reread what he said, it is, I think, the most intelligent thing that has come out of this thread.

So let's have a group hug, :gh:, somebody lock this thread, and all get back to bashing people from Franklin.

WOW!!! one filibuster from Sauerkraut and it all gets brokeback mountain.

It boils down to the law;whether you fish comm or rec or a little of both.If you are observing the established laws then you are treating the fishery with respect.This thread is a classic example of why opinions are like a holes,everyone has one and they all stink.Me,I guess I fall into that category of angler which Crafty described.I too will be in VA beach in a few weeks to try and vacuum every slob out of the sea in order to win some dough.Along the way I hope to get some laughs,meet some new people and most of all...fish again.

Howabout all the guys selling to the back of restaurants right off the boat? Or crossing state lines with fish?

I'm sure plenty of people on here know names. :rotf2:

Well if you ever ate bass on the South Shore @ Bobby Hackett's or the old Red Coach grills in the 60's & 70's there's a good chance it was delivered out of the back of an old Ford station wagon, but today you would have to be a fool to risk boat, truck, fines, etc. to sell to other than a legit. buyer or to sell fish without a permit....and my wife doesn't let me cross state lines so that's not an issue.
Frankly if you're so concerned about the resource and "know names" and aren't calling someone out then you shouldn't be pointing fingers. And if you ever see me breaking the "laws" well my name is *******...my number and the EPO's are in the book. And if I meet you on the water remind me that you're the guy that insinuated that I'm a crook.:devil2:

I recently spoke to a friend of mine about this issue. This is a life long fisherman who used to be in the commercial business. There is no doubt in my mind that if he was still a commercial fisherman that he would have been able to retire from what he could have made but he considers some things more important than the almighty $$$.

Here are his thoughts in his own words;

The typical tactic of defending all comm's as being honest and above board is still being beaten to death by an individual that either never fishes or talks to another comm, or is completely ignorant to the facts.
The number of fish sold without reporting, AKA black market, in my opinion and estimation, is fully equal to the reported catch.
***** is towing the line, defending his "right" to kill as many fish as he can without any sense of responsibilty for his actions. Brings me back to the quote "People will eat Squid".
Disregarding the clause submitted in the bill where Mass reserves to comm quota as conservation stock is somehow missed in the argument. Using Jerseys mistake of allowing recs to keep an extra fish, is also their excuse to fight this as just another way to allow the high end $'s the recs spend compared to comm's as a money grab by the government.
There are way too many recs out there that have no clue as to what is happening right now. I recently talked with a boat owner about the status of Stripers, and he showed exactly what I've been saying for quite some time. He only started fishing for Bass 8 to 10 years ago. He justifies stuffing the seat cushions with fish to offset the cost of fuel. If he doesn't come in with at least 8 fish, the number he designated, then it wasn't worth leaving the ramp. I suspect he also has outlets to sell his fish as well. There are way too many fishermen out there that bought boats during the real estate bubble on false income, and fished stocks on the rebound. Everything looked rosey, and life was good. 24 foot boats fully outfitted with electronics, and networks with cell phones, allowed less than average knowledge possesing fishermen to achieve great success hammering Bass at the Block and Montauk. To those that never fished the crash years, the great majority of them out there, they have no understanding that what they were seeing was as false as the Freddy Mac/ Fanny Mae mortgage programs that people were using to buy houses they couldn't afford with money they didn't have.
It is amazing to me that Stripers Forever is slammed by people who do understand the repurcussions of the current status quo. I would bet that ******embellishes his number of years on the water, as he would understand that the fish are not showing up in the places or numbers we used to get them at during the pre-crash years.
Tunnel vision reigns supreme with him and his brethren, all they see are the numbers in the bank account. Bass are nothing but money and as I have said in the past, that is all that matters to him and his type.
If I had not lived the crash or maintained the Bass are dollars attitude, I could easily have been making 10 grand or more a year in un-reported sales. There were times when I had the boats in the water that temptation was real, and the number of times I was approached would astound you. My reputation, pre internet, was well known on the Island, the armada would follow me and watch through bino's to see what I was doing. Playing with them would have me laughing for days as people started pissing on their tubes, copying what they thought I was doing to catch fish.
Continue the fight guy's, they care not about us or our children, or grand children. It's all about the numbers in the bank.

Convinces me more than ever it needs to be given permanent game fish status

This thread should be aboutStriped Bass regulation. Not slinging mud at each other and calling each other out. Fact is we are ALL here because we fish and at some point we have all killed at least some fish. So lets keep it civilized please. If you want to call someone out or accuse them of breaking the law do it in private. It doesnt belong here.

We'll I'll apologize if the tone of my posts went over the line, but....Jenn as far as removing my name, I'm not afraid to put my name behind my position and I prefer to let those insulting me know who they are talking to.

Ya missed the point. The need for external validation applies to the guy with a flyrod as well as the guy with a gaff. You are right, though, that we all use these fish for our own purposes so nobody is holier than anybody else as long as they are acting within the law.

...even guys from Franklin :fishin:

I have been reading this long enough and figured I would finally make a post. YOUR ALL WRONG. Only kidding. But my take is that no matter what the reg's are or will be. There are not enough resources to enforce the laws.

Its Just A Fish!
 

In reply to the gentleman who said its just a fish! He said it all. To the commercials its just money pure and simple to the rest of us who dont sell our catch its a way of life. I have spent the best parts of my life fishing for bass. I live where I live to fish I work the job I have to be able to fish often and hard. Beside my family bass fishing is the best part of my life. To you it is just a fish but to me it is a part of my soul. I know it sounds hokey or corney but it is the truth. Commercials by definition are in it for the money. Remember if it is a million dollar yankee first baseman or a commercial fisherman when they say its not the money you know dammmed well it is. I know this is only a limited example but I know commercials who kill as many bass as possible and then fish scup with traps rather than catch a bass they cant sell. What a sportsman! Yes you do it for the money and nothing else. But dont feel too bad the various individuals who make policy in regard to the resource dont care about its long term viability either.

Oh no, not at all! You can't be holy if you don't have a soul, and souls in Franklin guys are about as common as Tiger Woods Mother's Day cards these days.

It's this kind of debate by some that has lowered the public view of the commercial fisherman from the once romantic image of fisherman in pretty locals to the now, bitter, greedy and somewhat hostile hard-ass. There is no place for this anymore. If you notice they never talk about the protection of the species much, rather, how much of it is theirs to take with personal attacks of others thrown in.

Internet threads like this we all know will do little to effect laws but they are entertaining to see everyone's perspective on the matter.

Time for me to move on from this one it's getting old. unsubscribe.

Yeah... Damn those ba**tard Franklin guys!

I'm enjoying a delicious piece of Haddock. I'm thankful for the comm guy who caught it and got it to market.

hey I'm from Franklin, be nice. All I got from this long thread was eye strain a headache and the realization that most people can't agree on anything. Were doomed.:uhuh:

well, if you get yur wish to end comm fishing on sb, it will be like a two-fer.....cuz most recs won't know where to fish anymore thus a major reduction in take ! and please note the "most" in there.:rotf2:

you've reallllly gone overboard this time.....thats a shame. :fury:

This tread is still smokin! Virginia beach was good to me, won the ASA Nationals today! Did a live realease with the fish. Can't believe 40 won it, there were three fifties caught just yesterday....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Woe is me! A plague of Franklinsteins has descended upon us. They grow thick as the flies on a eel fisherman's toothbrush and multiply like machinists around a jelly doughnut. Quick, we must sprinkle canal water in their reservoir and offer prayers to St Gadabout lest they breed like seals and leave nothing for us honest plugfishermen to seek.

congrats, ken...you deserve it ! impressive.

How many boats?

I'm glad you love it so much, as I too can't imagine my life without fishing. I would say it's wrong to suggest that comm fisherman don't love it as much as you do. You can't get good enough to make money on Stripers without loving to fish for them first. The only difference between you and myself and all of the comms I happen to know is that we also make a few bucks living the life you describe above. I doubt many people comm fish because it's the only way for them to make money. They do it because they love the ocean, love to fish, and are good enough at it that someone values their skill enough to buy fish from them. Again, I ask, what is wrong for being paid for something you love? Should a working existance be defined through misery?

If folks want to split hairs about who should get all the fish, remember there's plenty of people who can't or don't fish that have just as much of a "right" to those as any other US citizen. Many of those folks like to eat fish and will buy them at a market. It's interesting that there's a lot of statements that suggest that comm's are taking all of the resources for themselves, but by creating a rec only fishery, aren't the rec's doing the same? And if you think that getting rid of comm fishing will end overharvesting of Stripers, just look at the illegal take in all states. If there's a market for it, there will be people providing it, regardless of legality. Best thing about the commecial fishery is that it allows for a legal, recordable take of fish. Right now it's the only accurate means of recording fish mortality that we have.

I'm far from thinking that we should fish for them until the ocean is empty, and I'm rec fishing 90% of the time I'm on the water, so I'm obviously concerned about the stocks. If a reduced take helps sustain the resource for everyone, I'd participate in that. I just don't agree with the suggestion that commercial fishing should end completely. Nor do I agree that comm's don't love the experience of fishing just as much as anyone else.

LOL!

And they descend so because of habitat destruction. The once pristine forests and trees in which they used to dwell have been devastated. Their forefather's lands raped and pillaged in order to create millions of wooden devils with six to nine sets of sharp, angry teeth.

Actually I thought they cut all those trees down to build golf courses.....but that's a different story.

All I got is that there's too many people who want stripers and that there's not enough of them to go around.

Maybe we need a commercial season for people. :smash:

60" minimum, six per day. No closed season. What'll we do with them, though? They don't taste as good as fish...

NO!! not at all because as you say: "
" I'm rec fishing 90% of the time I'm on the water" How can it be a resource grab when you will still be fishing for them?

There will be no loss of interest among SB die hards and you will still be doing what you love. The problem with R&R SB fishing is There a lot of illegal activity going on by this particular user group and the fish is pressured as a result. Enforcement is a joke and we all know that.

We could always feed them to the criminally insane, I suppose...

Well it would be a resource grab for me. I'm not going to take sides as far as rec vs. comm, as I do both. How about the people who don't or can't fish, yet would still like to be able to eat one? There are still PLENTY of them, the commercial and the black market you're talking about proves it. If you want to say you have to be a fisherman to be able to eat fish, that's fine with me as long as you're okay with having to hunt or farm whatever else you'd like to eat as well.

You are wrong! I bass fish May through November, without exception. I release far more fish than I kill. I'll spend hours or days just finding bait. I am sleepless, like a kid at christmas, almost every night before I fish. Does that sound like just money. I'm here typing my thoughts. Do you think a comm in it just for the money gives 2 bits about any of this, particularly on this forum? None-the-less a bass is a fish. No more revered to me than a tautog, fluke, tuna, seabass, etc. I appreciate them all, hold none as holy. Art

.....and......to all you plug nuts out there......going back almost 30 years .I have in varied quanities....original Danny Plugs(both surface-all sizes & deep divers-large) crafted by the master Danny P in critical colors..along with original Gag Grabbers needles-some screw eyed hooks-others thru wire(pink, lime & olive green& black)including the shorter models & a sprinkling of his mini models-some jointed ones..and first generation Super Strikes needles........most new in original packages.....not to mention several Boones.........and boxes of "used' plugs of the above that caught many stripers...many of them sold......and doing so...enjoyed the activity bass fishing second to none..........

Now..I hope I have everyones attention........
.........
..............."Called striped bass, striper, rockfish, bass or just plain fish. Stripers They are colorful, spirited, majestic, worshipped, eaten and sold. Fished pursued by commercial interests ranging from sport fishing magazine publishers to trap fisherman, pursued in earnest by charter/guide operations, by recreation anglers ranging from executives to vagrants lucky enough to possess a fishing rod and a few plugs.

Stripers. Totally adapted be eons of evolution and natural selection to effectively swim in surf, estuary, river, coastal pond, bay, sound, and ocean.

Striper. Prestigous, honored, loved."

Striper. Delicious, nutritious, a commodity and source of cash.

Striper. Providing pleasure to pursuing them from the surf, shore or upon the waters.................."

.......all users groups are intertwined with the many values the striped bass provides........

share the resource.......................................... .................................................. ......................protect our continued access to our favorite fish..............