Beach vs. Boat
 

Drifting along in a coccoon of fog yesterday morning along the Elizabeth Islands in my skiff I noted to my friend Dave LaPorte ( who is the only one who has the balls to be in such a small boat in a complete fog with me as I sniff my way through a roaring Woods Hole pasage by "sniffing" my way to Nonamesset Island) That I don't know if I am becoming a better boat fisherman or a lousier surfcaster. For the last four years the beach, which has had it moments, has generally sucked. The only respite is taking to my skiff and chasing bass on the flats of Barnstable, Monomoy or sliding along Naushon, Pasque and the other E islands. My first love is surfcasting but how much self abuse of one occasional almost fair nights can you take after weeks of nothing and mung and so on. Now I hear the grand poobah of the surf on that NJ site claiming he would have rather had a sister in a whorehouse than a friend in a boat and I did it with my feet in the sand etc. and many of you espouse the smae sentiment. I console myself by noting I do not troll although I have wire rigs they haven't left the house in ten years maybe more. All the boat fishing I do is casting plugs, rubber and what have you. I think this boat versus shore attitude is just plain stupid. If you want to resign yourself to a future where the beach gets more and more dismal in prospect what with the exploding seal population, mung and bird closures help yourself. The bas are still here they just are smart enough to know when they are beaten so they move off to where the bait, which has a tinge of intelligence too, is. I guess it comes down to pride and denial. Too proud to accept the fact that the beach is changing and not for the better and denial of that fact that beach fishing will and is being relegated to fond memories. I know in my heart it's the seals and the people in charge know it too but they have a different outlook than the interest surfcasters have and a different goal. I will still pound the sand cuase in my heart I cannot and will not let that go but I accept the fact that to catch bass consistently I must take to the water in my skiff and sooner or later a bigger boat. Frank Woolner told me in a conversation at the counetr at Paul Kukonens shop when I was a teenager that to be a truly great Striper fisherman one must master all the techniques from shore or boat. You can still have a preference but the goal is hooking up and catching not wishing for bass.

(BTW we slid along the islands not being able to see more than a hundred feet and sometimes less than twenty and caught bass and some bluefish all day long totally alone most times till the fog burned off around noon. Nothing huge 15 to 17 pounds to dinks and Bernzy 's Howdys and white Creek Chub 2100 series tricked out poppers ruled the day. There are alot of bass along them islands if you got the stones to push off in a dense fog with nothing but experience to guide you) :cool:

flap, why not get out of the skiff and surfcast those islands??? Is that illegal in mass?? In RI you could.

a boat is just another tool to catch fish. i must say that i enjoy both types of fishing and i particularly like to catch fish. gotta subcribe to frank woolners statement- makes sense. flap- you grew up knowing a lot of legends, lucky guy!

It is illegal. There are a couple of spots you can land on but they are sand beaches and provide little in the way of current or structure like the boulder fields do. I know some guys who get dropped off but the terrain is really tough and tiresome and they do get some fish but nothing like drifting a hundred feet off shore and casting to the rocks. The fish there tend to sit tight to the shore and are not shore shy at all as no one is there to disturb them. A good 75 % of your hits come in the first ten feet out and your plug must land within a foot or two of the dry rocks.

I grew up in Worcester MA. and no place in New England, maybe the northeast, had more influence on the development of striped bass fisng as we know it today. FW was our Rod and Gun editor of the local paper, and his circle of friends form the central mass area went out as prophets and spread the word.FW's brothers Jack and #^&#^&#^&#^&, Arnold Laine from Templeton, Charlie Whitney from Shrewsbury, the Kissel Bros and there sons from Worc and Millbury, Townsend, Gray, Kukonen, Leo Perry and his sons, Paul Tessier and it just went on and on. I consider Worcester the birthplace of the Striper nation, especially here on Cape Cod.

I've never taken the boat vs surf comments seriously here. I was lucky enough to acquire my uncle's 65 whaler late last season. I like both types of fishing but still also prefer surf for several reasons. This season has been below average for larger fish regardless of method I employ (could be me) although I will say I've landed many more in a boat. The ease to be able to cover more ground in a quicker fashion is a huge plus. I've even learned a few methods on the boat that I could employ in the surf and vice versa.. To me, as long as I'm enjoying myself and learning something new, I'm a happy man.

Ditto.

I find fishing from a boat to be a treat as rarely get to do it.Sometimes its nice not have take your waders off after fishing or having to worry about sand getting into everything or taking a digger on a slippery rock.

Don't get me wrong nothing will ever replace those quiet late nights on the shore.Like this morning for example.Up at 3am to fish the 4:15am hightide. Absolutely still,quiet and no other humans.Just myself my pole,plugs and waders.
I did manage a 30" bass at 1st light too. :)

Don't tell anybody, but I'm going fishing on a boat on Wednesday. :hidin:

I love fishing from the beach.....but when and if I can afford a boat....I am buying one.....it's all good....but boat fish still don't count :laughs:

well said Flap. Yup sling its all good

On The Money Steve
 

Right on Steve. I don't know if it is pride, stupidity, or mental illness but I still can not give the beach up. Glad you are catching fish and having fun. Hope your wife is well too.

how the F @#$% can you say he,s the only one who has the ball,s :liquify:

Sorry Mike, I know you got 'em too. I would only have to worry with you when we went by the house on Nonamesset that has the nudists living there, especially the young well endowed blond chick! :wavey:

nudists, steve? cool. never ran into one in my life. :laughs:

i like boat and shore. i enjoy catching fish. catching the fish from surf is rewarding for me. i plan to buy a boat for inshore, flats, and offshore fishing someday.

welp, i had boat in 80s and 90s
and always did both , sold grady as sand was way good
got skiff?

for what its worth, i would happily boatfish if i could afford a boat. my catch rates would go up and i could cover 1000000 times more water than from shore. However, I will always respect a surf caught fish more than a boat fish.. to me a 50 from a boat is a 30 from shore.. and a 6o from a boat would equal a 50 from shore.. You just cant compare the two animals. Yes you are a better fisherman for mastering all tools, but you can not say the glory deserved by catching a bass from a boat should equal that of a shore caught fish of the same weight.

If I had the coin i would have some sort of fishingboat.. but alas i am a starving artist :(

Bought a boat this spring notin special 19' center console.
i usta spend my time trying to cast from the surf as far as i could now I have a boat I cast to the shore.???

Right on the money Flap.
 

Even the one who made the "sister in the whorehouse" quote, has and still does fish from and owns boat(s). You are right about the Worcester gang, and surcasting, and you were lucky to grow up in that backyard, but, the NY crew was just as important in the cape surcasting scene, Bentsen, Samms, Chuck Liegh, little Paulie (the NYFD guy) and countless others from NY were key in the glory days of the outercape backside. And they all fished boat, and beach. Look at Krispys(I think) new avatar, a nice beach shot of Arnold Laine, and #^&#^&#^&#^&ie Samms, in front of a skiff, with a huge bass :D). The locals were less notable out there on the sand, some were never known, or heard of, as they preferred it that way.. but I know this, a lot of native cape codders who went for big bass in them days, headed straight to a boat, they figgered if you want big bass, you go to where they are, you don't wait for them to come to you.
Boat fish, Beach fish, lot of talk as to what "counts". Back then, for commercials, they all counted. I know one guy who caught multiple 50's and sixties (mostly from the beach, with witnessess)... never took a pic.. He's like, why??? I just wanted to sell them, and bottom line, thats what it was all about, in the 40's, 50's and 60's,70's, early 80's.
Yes, it is another tool, and a most effective one, in catching, like John Hollenberg (Hi John!), my shoes are still stuck in sand, the fish are fewer, (and smaller), but, I still get a cleansing of the soul at night, alone on the beach, that I just can't find out in a boat.

I resiged to that fact several years ago too Steve. I love the beach and have been a MBBA member for 20 some odd years but have not put a vehicle on the sand in several years. I just wasn't catching that much and when I moved off Cape and had to drive an hour or so you can get pretty tired of getting skunked. I just now prefer to fish from the boat. That is why I own 2 boats. I love my 14' tin boat and would never give it up, sorry BM, I have more fun in that thing than any boat I have owned. People told me to sell the thing when I got my 19 footer and I said are you crazy, never. I just like to fish and am not caught up in the beach vs boat stuff. To each his own. I like both but fish from boat 80% of time and enjoy it more and that is what it is all about for me enjoyment. Perfect example I went to Barnstable last nite and fished from shore and got nutin. Perfect nite and tide to drift eels but my truck in shop and couldn't get the tin boat to the water. I know there were bass in that channel too because a guy came in with fish that he got in a tin boat. BTW I would like to mention another original Worcester guy who lives in Sandwich for many years. #^&#^&#^&#^& Cook. To me one of the best. Paul

Eben =I'm not seriously getting into the beach == boat chit // have fun is what,s it about // but the statement you just made about what you consider 50# from boat ==equals 30# from shore is B/S ...

many times I,ve had it easier from shore to land a fish

I once caught a 20# from the beach --the fish made one run =180 straight to the sand ..
30 # from a boat on 15 # mono in a boulder field vs a 403 from the surf with 50# braid & at least that in leader // on a flat as sandy beach ...
every fish caught & every location & method is really different // there are [really] good spots down your way / I can,t fish from a boat /period /ad conditions & darkness so in that case if someone was nuts enough to go in there & get out with a bass /in the special situation it would mean more than if it was caught in the same place /from shore ..

Your tellin me that breaker I put you on that night /if you had caught a 50 # it would have only meant to you a 40# ????///////// I really wanted you to hook up there //because that would have been the easy part// any fish 20# or over you would have remembered the experience forever // :wavey:

Steve / & how many drifts did you make there ??? :eyes:

I enjoy boat fishing, I like to groundfish. Scup, flounder, black sea bass, togs.

Wheres my frying pan ???

I'll catch bass any way I can , you know that Steve. But shorefishing is my passion.
I am also getting more and more discouraged by the fishing from shore lately, the closures and seals etc. are pushing us out and it's very sad. After this mornings experience I have decided to start a letter writting campaign to all the polititions I can. I drive all the way to the Race this am knowing there is about a 20 minute window just before sunrise to catch some bass from shore and after getting up after 3 hours sleep I find the trail to the light is closed so I have to go out by the station and it's only open for a few hundred yards for all the SCV and others, so I reluctantly park and walk :( I go where I thought I could get some and started fishing and only got a few bluefish hits for my efforts but found Ishould have gone another 500 yards or all the way to hatches because that is where they were for all of 25 minutes and guys dragged their bass all that way back. You have no idea how much I wanted to just drive right out there past the posts and take my chances, I saw no reason whatsoever for it to be closed :mad:
maybe I'll drag my skiff out there in that zoo tom. or the next day and tangle with the wireline crew :hidin:

I HATE MUNG and Plovers

Bm and I wish we had aboat last night. shore fishing was a bomb here after looking so promising

Flap I feel the need to be sick....I wanna take you out there in the yeller barge...We picked some nice fish outta dem boulders last Wednesday...

I agree to disagree with Eben, I've had a boat all my life and it's not a cakewalk all the time getting fish from a boat, buy one and you'll find out. This is my 2nd "serious" season of surf fishing and I topped my best boat year already.... :cool:
I don't go for that boat/shore BS :fishslap: It's all about having fun, which I am, so if you want to waste your time with the boat/surf thing...Go ahead..I'll be fishing catchin' large!! :laughs:

Flap -

I'll be among the first to bust chops with BFDC, but all things considered, catching is a helluva lot better than not catching - and boats are just a tool toward that end at times.

On the other hand, there is a sense - for me, anyway - that a shore fought bass is superior game to one taken from a boat - but again, that's my own personal opinion.

There's a feeling of accomplishment and self-reliance in landing a cow from the rocks that just doesn't happen for me in a boat - I'm feel I'm relying on my skills and senses rather than electronics.

But all that being said, there are skills a good boatmen develops that go beyond just relying on a fish-finder, too -

At 56, however, I have to admit that at some point in the future I'll have to consider switching - I can only drag this old carcass around the rocks for so long - but as long as I'm still able to rely on the original parts - like hips, knees and shoulders, I'll stick to rock-hopping.

But considering the way the season's gone so far, if anyone asks me to go for a cruise.... :wavey: ....hey, I can get my boat outfits together in real short order.

I guess the most interesting sub-text to this whole thread -and I'm not trying to hijack it here - is the real fall-off of shore-based catches for guys on the board over a pretty wide range in our area.

I dunno, DZ and I have had some conversations over the last year about it - and we both have the feeling that the shore-based caster is sort of the canary in the coal-mine. Locally, the near-shore fishery has been down while the boatmen are doing notably better on the reefs - and it just has me concerned about the state of both the forage and the bass :smokin:

We'll see, I suppose....

Do both but couldn't agree with ya more.:hihi:

got skiff

thats just my opinion clammer.. i respect a shore 50 far more than a boat 50 and i bet there are alot of guys here that would say the same thing.

That's the problem, Caring what others think!!
I don't, just trying to have fun doing what I enjoy.
I'll take fish either way. All the same..... :wavey:

its not the same.

I would have a lot more respect for the person who walked the appalation trail from maine to florida than the guy who drove his car frm maine to florida :D

That's funny!!! :laughs:
Did u find a mag yet????

This is a great thread now that I read the responses, thanks to all of you for participating. I love the surf and like Karl said it do cleanse the soul. One thing I like about the beach is the feeling it gives me or should I say the reminder it gives me of how small I am. Being 6'-6" I loose that perspective. As to respecting a beach fish over a boat fish, I don't know. I mean standing in the elemental fury of the surf and playing a big fish is the one way we would all like to claim our fifty but standing on a heaving deck in a hal glae at Sow and Pigs in the middle of the night when the skipper makes it a point to tell you what to do if the boat flips, well that has some merit too. I think a fifty either way are on the same plane as far that is concerned although it took me many years to reach that conclusion and cast away prejudices of one fishing method over another. Where I cast the island shores I do not rely on electronics, actually more on things I gained from shore fishing. Things like moving water, structure etc.

Karl, that New York had some great fisherman as you mention but almost all were pilgrims who made the trek north in response to what the central mass and Worcester crowd first opened up. Alot of the names you mentioned came much later actually in the middle to late fifties, sixties and seventies. I wonder what FD would be doing for the summer if he had had conditions in the 60's and 70's as we have now? Seems he might have had an epiphany of sorts lately from what I hear.

Laine's big secret was he was one of the first and certainly one of the most daring that took a small boat to the beach, launched it in the surf and fished from it on the outside of the bars along Peaked Hill etc. I interviwed the Perry boys years back for an article and their Dad Leo , who was the impetus for the reverse Atom and many squid plugs, fished with Laine all the time and told me how he ( laine) would push off in his skiff with a piece of plywood about six feet long and two feet wide which he would lay on and sleep as he was anchoerd up until the tide was right or after the fishing was done and come ashore at dawn with the skiff loaded with bass while the guys on shore caught nothing.

After it is all said and done both methods have merit and some inherent risks that make both equal on the striper playing fields. I go to the beach still quite often as there is nowhere I would rather fish than on the sands of Truro and P-Town. It is beautiful and there are sights you won't see anywhere else. The clarity of the night sky, the smell, the vista of the mighty Atlantic and the power it holds, the milky way and shooting stars and the endless rythym of the surf as the waves crash to the shore. But is missing something. Occasionally we get a taste and, like seeing a lover we once had and cannot get out of our minds and know we will never have again, it is a place that brings out a memory that cuts a small piece of your heart away each time we go there. Of anything that FD wrote, that sentimentality, and the memory of what once was and will never be again, is the most haunting to anyonme who ever experienced it when it was good.

I was out Saturday in that thick stuff, thank god for GPS, good bite in the morning in the Westport area and then for yuks; we did head to Cuttyhunk. I'm just crazy enough to do it and at 25 knots mind you, but with enough prop in the water, I can make a rapid and radical course adjustment.

I've been in a few surf vs boat threads, in fact the all mighty #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& and I went at it good the first time I joined up. I can see his attitude hasn't mellowed much with age, but to each his own, at 52 I couldn't give a rats ass how or if you catch bass. I say catch them any way you can and by all means with a method and location that makes you happy. If that's with your feet stuck in the sand, slinging a slimmy creature so be it. If your mental and plugs and funny pants are your thing, go for it. If you like serious work and canal fishing, jig away boys and girls.

I like your attitude Flap, you and I definately need to spend some time out there. I've got my boat back, so if you can provide the ramp, I can provide the boat. I might have some rubber we can use too:).

pics and dates

tell the timetable.. (bottles (CC local)... any good stories about him :D) no big deal who came first, or who made what first.. heard nothing but good about most of the NY boys from the grey haired crowd, and some of the Worcester gang, I have talked to.

Some nice shots, and even Arnold hung with some of these guys.

And knowing what it once was, well, as meloncholy as it is, it is also nice to remember. Good thread Flap... Thanks!

Eben -- ya skipped all over the place // in your 1st post you rated boat fish as less of a fish or better words// accomplishment // all I said was in certain situations it [[could]] be that the boat fishing has its challanges //
Flap /put it in different words but you have to [should] respect everyones choice /of fishing == Also it may not be someone,s first choice/ but its this way or no way ==for physical, medical ,or dollar issues //
I choose not to troll /but if I went tomorrow /except for the T & W I would get my A$%% kicked....
there are soooooo many tricks of the trade that we can,t even start that thread.....
what,s easier or more thrilling // catching a 50 from shore on frozen squid . or a 50 from boat on L/L with a homemade plug //

both guys are charged/proud and right they s/b

you just have it in your mind that shore fishing is that more challanging /all I was saying .& flap added to it ;;[[DEPENDS}}

fishing the inside of S/P because there is a heave on while there are guys plugging the outter ledges of B/R in rigs /getting tossed to Chit ,knowing they could flip at any time ======= surf rules //
don,t think soooooooooo // I,ve been fishing a loooooooooooooong time & seen a ton of fish caught // never once did I ask the angler //boat or shore ?????? :confused:

well said and i agree. What i had in mind about boatfishing is trolling around a wireline and a parachute jig with a fishfinder on and seeing the fish on the screen before they bite- There are many levels of each field- You could stand on the tip of a saltpond jetty and chum up a 50, or you could farm the holes along the beach throwing needles. its all apples and oranges.

clammer- you surf cast from your boat- those fish count :D

boat or shore it dont matter to me

Yup.... :humpty:
fish is fish