Is the old guard losing it?
 

Are we who have 20 years in the surf or more slipping? is a new breed of hero emerging? Is Eben the new master? Maybe the drive is gone, maybe we cant keep up with these young bucks? does it matter if you fish 7 nights a week? Hmmmmmmmm

Is it possible that stripers now have a preference to plugs over eels?

Is the 9 to 5 every 3 day fisherman onto something?

I say hail to Master Eben, king of the August surf !! :crying: :crying:

:rotf2: :rotf2:

Yup! There is a new sheriff in town and he slings wood! :cool:

i thought i heard that eben blows :biglaugh:

Only when he is working! :rolleyes:

OK - this really ain't a fishing topic - Flushed to the Scuppers...:buds:

I shine for 2 months- april and august :hihi:

In Narragansett/South County - the old guard is not too well-represented any longer. The last time I spoke with Andy Lemar he said he noticed a significant drop-off with respect to traditional, hard-core nocturnal surfcasters over the last ten years. This shift has been underway for quite a while.
Dusk and dawn anglers are pretty abundant as are the subsistance fishermen - but thats about it. I thought the price of gas would drive more people to the surf locally, but it has not.
This year has been a real bad one as several local legends have passed away.
Don't be surprised if Eben or somebody else we know well emerges - its not like there are a lot of guys investing time to become good fishermen. 36 pounds from shore could probably place in several clubs 2005 shore contests.

hey joe! steve and I are still hard core! but your right I have said it over and over to steve on the rocks, "where is everyone" we see no one at night! and there are fish! not like it used to be........

Hey john a little picky arent we??? moving the thread? :laugha:

1) It ain't over till the fat lady sings.
2) There are still a few of us "hardcore oldtimers" still out almost everynight. We are just quiet about it. In the old days before the internet no one except the "insiders" knew who was taking good fish.
3) Most of us DON'T post our success. You think I want every newbie standing in my bootmarks after I slam the fish?
4) Aside from my partner there's not 3 guys on this board who know all the good spots where I'ver been crawling. Why give up the keys to the kingdom.
AND finally....
5) While I haven't got a 36# bass this year. I have 30 fish over 15 and 5, 20# or better. All from shore. In the last 10 days 2 in the 20s and 6 in the mid-teens. 2 of those in the last 24 hours.You see any pictures or posts about my fish? NO.
You see the oldtimes like to stay low profile. It doesn't do us any good to advertise our success. :laugha:

I think the future of surfcasting is in designer plugs and color coordinating breathable attire.

Think a Van Staal get's a double take? Imagine the unshaved nods at 2am when someone's headlamp flashes the gold Versace "Medusa" badge on your wading belt.

It may not be well known, but the Army Corps of Engineers actually used a well worn Milan catwalk as the basis for most East coast jetty designs.

You wanted the truth #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, I don't think you can handle the truth :rotf2:

-spence

:rotfl: :rotf2: :rotf2: :rotf2: :uhuh:

Amen Piemma.

While I am not an old-timer, I agree with everything you said. The less guys out at night, and less Internet report/spot postings bringing out more guys at night, is better for the guys that do go out at night.

The Internet is great for equipment talk, fishing tactics talk, "how to fish" talk, etc., but it is not a place to brag & potentially overcrowd spots.

Call me whatever you want, That is my opinion.

I'll second that :wiggle:

Thanks for all the agreement guys. It just makes sense to me.

A little confused by this post? what truth? I do confess I now wear breathable waders but thats it!

Piemma for President! :love: :uhuh: Saw Mr. Lamar out Sunday :uhuh:

I would say I'm of the new younger crew of fisherman. Do I possess the knowledge and where with all to get fish like you guys do... no. However the surf fisherman is a dying breed. I don't have any close friends who like to surf cast like I do.They may say they like fishing but don't want to walk the beached for hours on end in the middle of the night. At parties and stuff people laugh at me because in many cases I would rather be playing with an eel on a rock instead of getting drunk and hitting on girls. I got into surf fishing from my father who no longer cares to fish, at least not nocturnally.

I may get some back lash for this but here goes.

If you guys don't pass on your knowledge or at least take (nephews, friends sons etc) fishing the sport will diminish. Almost every one I know who fishes got into fishing from father figures etc. Don't deny that as older states men you may have some responsibility to pass on what you love. I can't wait to teach my kids (don't have any yet) to fish when they come of age. I think that would be more rewarding than catching a cow by myself.

I do pass on my knowledge....just not to everyone. My partner is 26. I'm 58. he know what's up....

I did not mean to infer that hardcore surfcasters are gone - just that there are less of them now than there was. I certainly did not mean any disrespect to the old guard.

The publicity thing is a slippery slope. Personally, I believe that there is a line that can be walked where fishermen can (and should) be noted, without being considered a braggart. I'm fascinated by the exploits of the ghost surfcasters. To me, the sin lies more in the lost knowledge - I believe that collectively, the sport is poorer for it. I’m not saying, "Fork over your spots, Paul." Just that so much has been lost.

With the Internet, it is certainly a two-sided sword. But I think that as time progresses the internet will prove more of a plus than a negative with a similar set of mores that accompany more traditional forms of interaction - that's already happening.

I agree, but the Internet is not necessairly the place to pass on all of that knowlegde, some yes, all of it no way. Surf Fishing in general cannot handle every secret out there and spots specifically cannot handle TMI, especially from the internet. I have seen many that share knowledge on the Internet, eventually fish together, and if and when that clicks, share far deeper knowledge. Perhaps that is a good use for the Internet Fishing.

I have seen many of the "sharpies" take people under their wings and pass on that knowledge. Some people will want to take things to the grave, human nature perhaps...

This has become an interesting thread from a philosophical point of view. I had this discussion with Spence yesterday and Joe and John hit upon it.

The whole point is that the internet has changed the surf fishing scene. I think that when VHF and CB radios came upon the scene, the boat fishing world changed. Remember "laying around in my old pajamas". For you young uns' that was the code the old timers used to tell their friends that they were in to big bass on their boat.
So what's happened is that the internet has diluted the surf fishing scene because everyone knows as soon as someone catches a decent fish. It not like 10 or 12 years ago when we would hit the back beaches and the only way that anyone knew we did a number was if one of the baitshop owners, where we stopped to weigh fish for our club, told The Fisherman magazine about our "scores". And even then, by the time the mag came out the news was a week old. Remember they have fins and move.

So now on to sharing knowledge.
I freely share everything I know about this surfishing thing....with my close friends. The reason I don't post is, obviously, I don't want a mob showing up the next night. It's not a question of keeping all the fish to myself but a question of conservation pressure.

There was a situation is SoCo RI this past Spring where a couple of good fishermen were into fish at a certain spot and there was a report posted here. No specific but close enough so within 2 or 3 nights there were so many trucks parked on the side of the road and so many guys walking into a private spot that the police were going to erect "no parking" signs. Before the internet, this wouldn't have happened. Even with a "good" grapevine it would take a weeks for the news to travel and the place to get overrun.

I hope this post clears up any misconception that the old guard are keeping all the secrets from the new generation. Not the case at all. We just are judicious with who we share our knowledge.

Plus who else can ya call at 3am :angel:

....and you know your call is always welcome. :boots:

I agree with all the above..method's..plug's...jig's...eel's etc. havn't really change all that much and how to use them over the passed [let's just say a long time]...what I've seen is the loss of fishing turf[land] with all the people that moved in to live near the water. atleast here anyway.Alot of the good fisher's have given up because of this...they had endless mile's of free space with no one coming out to kick them off..not today..it's a whole new game. Yes some have passed, but for the most part they just gave up because of the lack of LOST productive SPOT"S. that and the lack of good fish.The good old day's are gone...enjoy what little is left.

Amen. Capesams is right. We will never have what we had. I remember when you could ride the Back in the middle of the night and see maybe one or 2 other trucks. Now it's like 95 at noon. We never knew how good we had it. 30s and 40s all night till your arms were so tired you could hardly fight another fish. Now a 40 would be headlines.

I have met several old timers that don't fish at all anymore and have not fished in a number of years. They are very bitter out it too. Reason: Restriced Access. They use to go anyplace they please and now can't. Access is restricted now. The bird thing also has me POed lately...The beach here is STILL closed. All summer we lost, all summer. I want to make a stink but I know I will get piled on by the plover lovers and be despised for years to come.

With regard to passing on info…I don’t think you need to tell all your secrets, just take a kid fishing. I make it a point to sacrifice some time on the boat and on the beach each year and take others fishing, even if I really don't want to. I gave up a great offshore trip cause I had scheduled to take some kids out this week. It was a tough call for me. I get asked (from friends) to take kids from time to time and this past week has been my "give back" week. I took a good friends’ grand children who have never fished before (yet come to MV each summer). These kids were 13-18. It was a slow day for me but a great day for them. One kid boated an 8.5# fluke and he could tell from my excitement that it was a great catch. I told him he must eat this fish tonight to fully enjoy the day.Another kid I took out yesterday (friend of my son) lives here and has been out once before on a party boat and caught a sea bass. He is 9 yo and wanted to catch anything big. We went blue fishing. An 8#er was the biggest we could muster but he was thrilled. I mean my son could not believe how excited he was about landing this blue fish. Want to expand the sport?…Take some kids fishing; keep it simple. It will rejuvenate your appreciation for a good day on the water and one of them may take to it like you have and be grateful to you for the rest of their life for introducing the sport to them. And if they don't, at least they will not be ignorant about it from now on.

humorus
 

:rocketem::lurk:which makes it....................................:laugha:

very well spoken,,,,all of it, but this in particular. :btu:

Getting back to the original question, I'd definitely say a lot of younger guys are hitting their stride and thankfully more are getting into surf fishing. I see a lot of younger guys coming into the shop, buying the right things, and asking the right questions. While it's not so much the old guard losing it, it's just the natural evolution of the younger crowd.

For example, just take a look at the shop's staff; Earl, Arden, and Rob who are all under 25 years old (definitely still young by most standards) and all already have fish over 30#'s from shore this year including Earl's Newport County Fishing Club leading 37# fish. They all fish hard and primarily at night. Arden also had a 43# fish in the Newport surf last year and others taken from shore in Montauk. That said, they all avoid the Internet and have learned some of what they know from the Ironman and even more so the old fashioned way, time on the water in the dead of night.

As for keeping surf fishing alive in the future, that's up to us and especially fishing shops. The best way I've found to get kids into fishing (once the idea is their heads) is to actually have them catch something so pointing them in the right direction and teaching them the basics is key. Out of all customers that come into the shop, almost none get as much free gear and attention as kids interested in fishing. I'd have to say that's another negative in regards to losing more and more tackle shops to e-business. Hanging around a hardcore fishing shop when I was a kid definitely got me going in fishing.

Since there is some access discussion in this thread, I'll also add that Castle Hill in Newport has been lost due to trash...

:bc: :af: :af: :wall:

They're taking it seriously for now, complete with a security guard. Maybe come September or maybe early in the spring he won't be there, but for now no one can get in there.

Lots of great stuff posted on this thread.

I agree with most of what has been said. I 100% agree about spot burning. You would have to be crazy to post the size of fish and the exact location of your success. I have had my favorite hole get much more crowded in recent years and I'm not happy about it. I look at this site and think its very usefull in several ways. I gain lots of knowledge and different perspectives on fishing. I also think that just talking about something we all love makes me excited to throw my line in the water the next time.

In some ways younger anglers like myself can be bitter. I'm 24, I missed the glory days. In the early 90's It was difficult for me to get my first keeper, seeing the size had to be 36'' and the Striped Bass stocks were in troubled times. I honestly had to work a lot harder to get nice fish than many of you did in your youth. I don't see an older fisherman and think, "hey your almost killed the striper industry with your lack of conservation", but its something to think about. That said veteran anglers can pass on knowledge that is usefull to first timers etc. Most notably to respect one another, don't leave trash on the beach, move when the guy next to you has a nice fish on ... etc. There is a right and wrong way to surf fish.

Man, what a great post!!!!

Here is another perspective . . .
 

. . . from a kid whose father used to take him to spend entire weekend days fishing from jetties to catch scup and an errant bluefish, and on bridges on cold fall and spring days to catch what used to be endless winter flounder.

Those were the days.

A good number of topics are raised in this post. One is of pics and I have a couple of views on them since I just learned how to post them and have been doing so. I know some don't because they know they catch fish and don't need to share their image or post a fish for the world to see. Some don't want to or can't take the scrutiny involved, like Manny Ramirez who doesn't like people prying into his private life, some can't take reading when someone challenges them on the size of a fish or that they weren't wearing their PFD, etc. Some don't want to potentially harm the fish by taking the time to set it up and take the shot which humors me because they are harming the fish in a way just by hooking and tiring and fighting it so is the little time really doing anything in the big-picture? For all intents and purposes, a fish fighting underwater is no different than either snagging the bottom or having someone stand and pull on the end of one's line and reeling and tugging with the rod, but don't get me wrong, the thrill and uncertainty is what has us hooked. The main reason I see for posting pics is for other people to look at and to see what other people are doing, it is a very pleasant escape for some. Imagine sitting inside, like all us internet users do and be able to go online and instantly be transported to someone elses world, with a picture? It is why Hollywood exists as well as magazines. I post pictures because my neice and nephew as well as friends, relatives and all their kids can look and get so happy when they see either themselves or me with fish on the computer. They tell me to post the pictures so they can look at them and long for the day when they are old enough so I can take them at night to go fo the big ones.

With regards to spot-burning, aren't we supposed to share, to a certain extent? I know that I've gone to all my spots and in all my years I don't ever see anyone there when I go there, so I guess from my rose-colored boat-view I don't worry about a flotilla showing up if I give up where I'm catching and on what tide and time of day/moon phase, this could be vastly different from the shore/surf/pier/jetty fishermen but I'm solo and don't mind helping others get "close" to a good spot and getting some luck.

As with all the things I'm into, and being single and kidless, all my buddies who got married, had kids, gotten injured, there are so many factors as to why they can't go and do all the fun things they used to do it is hard to nail down.

I think most importantly that the number of people who fish and who go on these sites is so minimal that it makes almost no difference, at least in my eyes. Remember in the late 90's at the height of the dot-com/dot-bomb and " . . . the internet is going to change the world . . . " and that everyone would be online, well how wrong were they?, the vast majority don't go online and expecially fishermen, none of all the guys I know who fish check out any fishing sites, same goes for all the guys I know who snowmobile or dirtbike, while the forums are most interesting and informative for me, they could give a Bass's-behind about what is on the World-Wide-Web.

All in all this is interesting and I'm glad that sites like this exist. When it comes down to it it reminds me of a Law and Order episode where this mother against a "Shock-Jock" goes on to shoot the "Jock" and in the final scene it shows the lawyer just going over to the radio while the other attorneys/detectives were listening and just turns the radio off, the scene went right to black after that, the point being, if you don't like it, you don't have to listen/look. There are enough people getting offended by this that and the piping plover, no one wants it here.

And that's all I got to say 'bout that.

there was a time that surfer's were so tite lipped you could hear a frog fart under water 3 mile's away...not today,, ....information? deep dark secret's? my god men there's the internet/countless book's/mag./video's/fishing club's. the info. is endless.....and nothing has changed as to how to catch a fish...so where is all this nobody tell's us anything crap coming from...???

I have to jump on this one :)

Burning a spot: A quick story from 10+ years ago, I was in a B/T shop (on MV) talking with the guys,when the old question came up.you going out tonight? Sure am, Well he told me to go to xyz "tons" of fish :)

Well I never did go to xyz spot I went to another one,and guess who I ran into in the middle of the night? The island guide who told me to go to another location! lol true story

Young fisherman taking over? Not in my book, Just that the older people have died . lol And them young kids can type a lot faster on the internet!

And lets all remember luck has a lot to do with fishing :)

VB

old people smell funny :hidin:

KRISPY, NICE LURE

use to meet guys on the back and say where's the fish? Oh, we killed em down at Highhead. Run all the way to Highhead and there's nothing but Mung! :ss: