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Boats don't run on thanks
You get into a conversation with another boat owner and it doesn't take long the negitive issues about money and freinds come up.
I luv takeing out new-bees mostly family freinds , I don't askfor money and don't expect it. They don't realy know just how much it takes to get the show on the road. I admit there are a handful of times I've taken guys out that do know and have been around long enough to know and don't make a offer after a day of fishing. I think thats just plain ignorance. When I invite some one I don't expect money,but after that???? Consider this... bait, gas, parking and tackle. It doesn't end there... time, time is money. Although I luv what I do it still takes time to catch & find bait, clean, service ect. ect. To have some one climb on board, catch fish, get off and say thanks just doesn't cut it. Two or three years ago gas/bait has gone up considerably... do the math. I realy hate negitive stuff and having people talk chit if I mention money but dam I'm not rich. Any thoughts on this? |
go to the fuel dock WITH them on board..
let them watch the numbers on the pump go up and up and up.. 90% dig right in to help.difficult issue..because i always wanted company. but if you make people feel like they HAVE to pay, they won't want to come out.. my feelings were always " hey i'm going with or without you" so i gotta foot the bill anyway. if you want to pitch in thats great.. ohh and biggest fish of the cleans the boat{less it's the captain} |
Money is an uncomfortable issue for both sides to talk about. That's why I think it's the boat owner's responsibility to bring it up before the person even commits to going out on the boat.
There is no way to really know someone's financial pressures, the last thing I would want to do is put them on the spot and make them uncomfortable. |
Last summer was the first time i asked my friends to help out with fuel and this is when you know who your good friends are. There wasn't one time that anyone complained because they saw how much $$ i spent at the pump and how quickly the fuel was getting sucked up by watching the navman fuel flow meter. Also, I only take out people that i know will have no problem with chipping in.
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I have never asked people for money. Like Mike says I like the company. Usually I'll tell my guests to bring lunch, and drinks. If they offer to give me money I'll once say I'm all set, however if they want to give it again I take it. Sometimes you find a twenty stuck in your tackle bag the next day.
I can be a weird situation. I really like Freaks answer to bring them to the pump and watch the numbers. |
This a good thread! I go out alot, and it gets EXPENSIVE to say the least. I enjoy fishing with my buddies rather than alone most of the time ( once in a while the solitude is needed ) and they always bring food, bait and beverages. They also always help clean the boat and take their turn at the wheel, but lets face it, gas, insurance, tackle.... it adds up quik!I don't think they realize that 150 yds of wire and flouro leader costs $25. Fuel was $3.15 last year, and no wallets came out. I know I'd go if they weren't there, but guys, a little help. Marina fees, storage costs,up keep, electronics, etc. My wife goes nuts, she thinks they should buy all the gas! We do alot as a family on the boat so it's not just me and the guys, otherwise she'd want it gone. I don't want to ask themforcash because I think that's akward, I'm nota charter, but I think you free loaders should offer!
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We will be glad to take their money! I started out years ago fishing with my younger brother, he had the boat and every time I insisted of filling the tank. Then I bought my 1st boat and he started coming out on my MUCH better (and FAR more expensive to run) boat. He would come out all the time and would allways bring one of his buddies allong, and neither would offer 1 cent for gas, bait,ect... and as soon as we would pull into my slip, their cell phones would start ringing, and it would be their wives yelling at them to get home, and of course they never hung around to help clean up the boat. Then I bought my brand new Parker and I took them out 1 time, Same story !!! That was the last time my brother got on my boat. Now when we talk about fishing & going out, I tell him what our charter rates are !!! :rotf3: |
I get out with a couple of the guys from here on the site....always offer money for fuel....if they don't take it I bring food, sodas, ice, bait....whatever. This year I will be paying my way with wood...any takers?:bl:
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When I invite a friend out for the day I will NOT accept anything !!!
But I have a group of friends that we either go out on my boat or theirs and It's kind of an unspoken thing that I fill my tank and they fill theirs! But we allways help to clean up each others boat ! |
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NEVER let Notaro on your boat without bringing the hotdog pasteries, Their AWESOME !!! |
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You can be the 1st to try to hook up a fish with my Raider plugs !!! |
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I don't think you invite some one out withexpectations of money.Unles it's been discussed then it is ignorant to think that way.Communicate with your guests.It sure could get awkward when your buddy shows up with beer bait tackle and food then you ask him for $$$ and to wash the boat afterwards. I know I usually spend $50 before I step on board.Sticking out your hand to help defray slip costs and maintenance dollars is like asking barbecue guests for money to cover heating oil,home insurance or pool water delivery.If you can't afford it,don't buy it.
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i usually fish alone (most i know don't like the hours) but when i do have company i ask for nothing and expect nothing (friends always help with other things) , i was going fishing anyway , the only rule i have is i will only fish with one other person , any more than that you are doing nothing more than running an unpaid charter , no time to fish yourself , with only a short season i want to fish every moment. as far as cleaning the boat i have a routine and its a lot easer and quicker for me to do it alone
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Its a funny thing, I brought this very subject up 2 seasons ago, and was almost Castrated!!
The thought that I would ask for money was like I just murdered someone! Now the gas has gone Thur the roof its OK?? Weather gas is $1 or $5 a gal, not all people are rich. I am a poor man in a rich mans sport!! I have always made it clear that we all must share the expense! I have a few friends that are bad off, and they have gone fishing with me many times for free!! But always help out with the clean up! I have had a guy (friend I thought) go fishing with me, brought no food, water, or anything! Not even a rod! I supplied all (good thing I have extra on the boat) at the end of the day he had drank and eat all my food, broke a very special rod (I made for a friend that died) used up a bunch of tackle, and then held up a 5 gal bucket for Fluke, he said that was all he wanted. Never offered me a dime, had to go could not stay for the clean up, and as for the rod, not even a sorry! Just well its a good thing you build rods you can make another for nothing. Then got in his car and as he drove away said, "I will see you next time" That was 3 years ago, and I have never seen him again, and if I ever do it will be too soon! If you make it clear from the beginning the people that call you friend will always help out!! |
It never hurts to discuss the gameplan during the invite. This would include where you expect to fish, how far that run will be, hmmm at X gallons per hour, we'll be burning about y gallons, aw we'll just fuel together, before we go out, (if possible, not on a 0400 departure though) The # of gallons you burn are definitely up for discussion. Some people don't know and still others need to be reminded what it takes to make things happen. Just look how pros like Bill and Juls handle it. There is a surcharge when they expect to be making a longer run offshore to chase tuna!
hey, a charter is different from entertaining clients, so you are entitled to invite "friends" to fish and share in the pieces that make the whole thing happen. If that means food and beverage, so be it. Delegate! You are the captain aren't you? |
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4 months to go!! :drool:
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Yup, someone said it...I'm a poor man in a rich mans sport. But after paying for the slip, gas, maintenance etc., I still will take a friend out for a wonderful day of cruising, looking, talking. I wouldn't ask for anything cuz I'm going anyway and like the company. Who knows, I might stick someone else with liking this hobby.
Now I want to take someone out that knows how to catch fish and teach me the spots and the tricks. Usually I just feed the dogfish and catch the little strippers and blues. Plus the occasional 'what the hell is that' kinda fish. Sarge |
In my 40 plus years of fishing I,ve been fortunare enough to be a guest on many boats in different locations worldwide. In my opinion its a privelege not a right to be invited on a boat. That being said i always make sure that my host is compensated for his or her generous offer of taking me fishing EVEN IF THEY WERE GOING ANYWAY he or she took the time to invite me I always try to give them fuel money, leave tackle plugs ,bait etc or at the very least bring lunch or buy dinner and drinks at the watering hole upon your return One could also reciprocate with a fishing trip on your or someone elses boat. Thats the way I was raised to be a gracious guest PETE SANTINI
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If I extend the invitation and it's my idea to get the boys together, I do not expect a dime.
If they approach meabout takin them out, my standard answer now is "I'd be happy to make the time to take you guys fishing, but I have to ask for some money to help with the fuel costs, it's gotten really bad at the fuel dock lately." And no one has ever had an issue with that. I took a guy and his son out, he had been after me for quite some time to take them fishing. So I took the day off and we went out in pea soup Monomoy fog. I caught them their limit of really nice bass, bait, tackle, etc. and gave them 8 hours on the water. I felt the $20 at the end of the day was really kind of weak. That's when I developed the standard answer found above. Shame on me for not addressing it before the trip, but I have learned from that now. We fish several tournaments each summer and our arrangement wiht my crew is I provide the boat, fuel, and all the tackle I have. They feed us, drink us, and cover all the entry fees including all the calcuttas. It works & I am comfortable with that. The problem lies in when we win cash, which we have. I think I will start a thread on that come to think of it....... I think I have been too generous in the past.... |
What if you have a commercial license and the guest has helped you catch for the day.Is that payment enough?
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Absolutely !!! Thats what I do. Even if we have a bad day, with not much fish caught and lots of gear lost, thats the deal!!! So my bud here on this site (you know who you are) No more hiding money in my truck after we have been out for the day and the day wasn't so good !!! Then there's allways the guy you take out like a co/worker who came out cod fishing with me a few winters ago. He knew the deal ahead of time (that i was selling) Did little fishing and the next day at work, pissed and moaned behind my back that he wanted a cut !!! |
I always paid a cut when I was commercial bassin', but that was the deal before we left the dock. I don't commercial bass fish anymore, it never made me feel very good.
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Oh bOY GOOSE =========
yep thats, B#$%^&* S$%^&*( / some don,t know the expenses // but anyone the really fishes knows well //the cost .,. most guys are cool with it ;;; if I do a short run I,ll refuse the money // but If I got to run I expect a kick / I wouldn,t think of going with anyone for the catch ya later S #%$^ ;; now with the tin rig -its usually cheap money with the rig .But descent gas running the truck ;;; some bring eels ,that cool too ----don,t fish much with guys during the daylight // I life weekdays .. What the freak said ======I,m going anyway = well I been there ;done that ;I told my wife WSWH that if I,m gonna foot the whole bullet /Its easier to fish alone /no one to please/ no one wanting to go in before me . ETC .... R/R Commercial --I took a couple of guys last year & I told em straight up / money up front =we get market fish == ya get ya money back =we hit fish & one guy caught the largest fish he,s caught / he took it home //I loss $120 I kept his money & the other guy his back ..... I had a fishing partner for 18 years til he dropped dead // everything was 50/50 it was just understood ======== get a check /split 50/50 not who caught what /// sinkers //25# a wack / hooks 100 a box // something happens to the baot while fishing together /we split the expense // Once he got a speeding ticket flying down to Aunt Cary,s ============== automatic split .. we all sold at the same place & the dealer got audited ---alot of guys got caught // I was lucky / my partner -got caught ================== all he had to do was call after his visit to the IRS & I was at his house that nite with half ;; after a while it gets tired // ya go out to dinner // pay for the food & tip the waiter /waitress for service ;;; ya go out on the boat / fished places yor probably wouldn,t be able , eels , no problem . yellow plastic== no problem .. popper ==in the bag ../ Fishin,s over thanks have a nice day NOT THIS F #$%^&*() YEar;; ya want little necks ==I,ll sell them to you at the right price // ya come with me =what ya get is yours ===too a point ============= learned a lesson along F $%^&*( time ago === give something away free & you.ll soom be out of customers================ the one ya give them too waits til the next time /& the ones that buy em find out ya giving them away WTF there gone ;; Its not always about the money ==I,d give a guy a $20 in a heart beat before I gave him $20 in L/N.S :lasso: |
As the jr. boat whore, its tuff. but i want to know up front, what you what/need from me. If its cash, let me know how much.
its a crappy thing to find out at the dock, (after a two or more hour drive at 0200) or on the water, that the boat owner expects 40 , 50 or more you dont have in your pocket. I will ask once what you need from me, or what you need me to bring. tell me right up front. want me to take a turn at the wheel say so. want me to bring ice , lunch, snacks, water, say so. want cash for gas split let me know what you expect to have to split. want me to help do boat clean up. let me know. I WANT TO FISH ON YOUR BOAT, I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU WANT/NEED FROM ME.. Please just let me know. I got to say I have fished on 4 boats with guys from SB.com. I have been invited back on board 3 boats. so I have to think I am ok to fish with. Thanks for your time.. that said anyone got a open seat?? / al |
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"If you can't afford it,don't buy it" What does that statement mean. I make a lot of sacerfices so I can have a boat. So mabey I dont go out to eat everyday, I bring a lunch. Mabey I drive a 2001 Trailblazer instead of a 2006. I dont go to bars and drink, do drugs, gamble. I choose to own a boat. That is a idiotic stupid thing to say. |
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What's this WOOD of which you speak ?????:huh: But,,,,, I want dibs on the trophy you will get for a fish caught on my boat !!!!!!! Still think we shoulda chased those TUNA !!! :wavey: |
Generally, I don't ask for anything. If someone offers I may or may not take them up on it. I do keep the catch and sell it at the end of the day to try and cover the expenses. Of coure that doesn't apply on charters, just when I'm going fishing anyway and ask a couple of buds if they want to come along.
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I have never taken money for taking someone fishing. (even as a lic'ed Capt) That said I only invite friends and family and do a few favors. Most of the people I fish with invite me on their boat too so I think in the end it all works out. If there was an exceptional trip (big day offshore) I would offer $$$, that is only being polite.
If I was entering something like a shark tourney with a group of guys I would lay out in advace what the costs are. You can spend a ton of cash on these things and if you don't have deep pockets it can hurt. But for a day of fluke fishing in the sound with a few friends, I will absorb it. That said, the cost of fuel and dockage and boat ownership in general is getting absurdly high. I try not to think about it when filling up esp when I really fish hard on the boat everyday. I keep telling myself that a good day on the water is worth it but I can tell you it is keeping me from buying a big sportsfishermen. A canyon run on even a somewhat efficient boat can exceed $1000 in fuel alone. That is a lot of coin for fuel a fishing trip. One has to think that this fuel cost has to be impacting boat sales. I can only imagine that big boats with gas engines are considered dino's in the re-sale market. My wife is pushing for a tralwler style with live aboard space and I tell you @3-4 gal/hour compared to 40+ for a sportsfishermen, I may go with the trawler and tow my little seacraft around for fishing fun. There will be no quick fix either. fuel cells, electric or hybrids will not cut it for boats or even SUV's that are really used as SUV's in the deep sand. I would like a nice big sportfishermen with a small reactor(s) that produce about 3000hp each. Clean, no exhaust and you only replace the fuel every 30 years or so. This may sound like a pipe dream (today it sort of is) but in the longer term the next generation of atomic power is the worlds solution to energy. No question in my mind. I doubt I will be alive to see it though. Until then, I will have to live with outboards and diesels and pay the price.:wall: |
Not sure how the Coasties currently view things, but there was a time when their interpretation of the law was that accepting any compensation for taking people out on your boat made you a "for hire" operator.
Certainly, if you demanded being paid in any way by your passengers, you ran the risk of running afoul of the law. Much better to let your passengers "offer" to share expenses. This strict view of what makes one a "for hire" operator may have been eased a bit, but you might want to look into it anyway ;) |
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Make it clear with your friend that if boarded say nothing about helping out with gas or anything, ever. However the spirit of the law is targeting unlicensed operators acting as a commercial entity w/out licensing and inspection. Safety. I think last year there was an unlicensed charter from RI that went down. Anyone know more - what happened? |
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IMO, the most important thing anyone on this site has is his or her own reputation. I think sayin "if you can't afford it, don't buy it" is a low blow. Furtunantly enough I can afford it but I'm tired of getting walked on. Somebody once told me "you take the shirt off your back your gonna be cold". This is one of the reasons I fish alone and my boat is a bay boat. Don't get it confused with I'm not a people person, there isn't a guy I won't fish with here or take out for that matter. I "know" plug builders and rod builders aren't given the credit they deserve for the same reasons I mentioned, don't think boaters don't feel the same. Your accussing the victom? |
I had a sailboat for 23 years. I never expected anything to run the boat.
I would sometimes expect that people would at least feed themselves. That is , if its a day trip , don't expect me to load up with grinders and soda , etc. Anyone who knows anything would not only bring their own food but also some for you. Its a social thing and you have to be careful not to hurt peoples feelings too. . For example , someone invites you to their house and wines and dines you and somewhere along the way you invite them out on the boat , you can see how they may figure the boat ride is payback and not bring anything. Most people will ask , should I bring anything , if you expect it , let them know. If you say , no I got everything , don't be surprised when they do show up empty handed. You also have to be careful how you word the invite. "Would you like to come out boating Sat as my guest"? That person shouldn't be expected to pay anything. "How about we split expenses and go out on the boat for the day" , then people know up front. This is my personal preference when invited out on someone elses boat. Just let me know what the deal is upfront and I'm glad to chip in. I also think it depends on how often people do it. Someones first invite out maybe you take care of everything , even feeding them. However if its every week with the same people , they should catch on and start bringing food , beer etc. Now I understand fishing trips are different than a day sail. Fishing trips burn gasand people get to take home fish. It should be discussed up front that if possible , a little help with gas money , after the trip is over , would be nice. Also , don't expect to share anything more than the comsumables , like gas ,. You;re crazy if you think people are going to add an extra $50 cause they know the outboard gets wear and tear. Also , if gas is $60 , don't expect each person to give you $60. Just their share is nice enough. You also have to take into account someones circumstances too. Don't ask a dirt poor guy with 10 kids to go out fishing and expect a hundred for gas. If this is what's expected , make it clear ahead of time. Anyway , as I said , I never wanted anything for the boat , gas , dock etc. That's my resposibility as the owner but if you want ham samdwiches and cheese and wine , bring some , enough for everyone. The last thing I wanted to mention was that some people don't want to insult you by offering money. There may be many points of view as to whether the trip is shared , payback , just being nice , philanthropic , etc Anyway , I would much rather have everything discussed up front so no one gets disappointed or surprised or put in the situation of not knowing what to do. As the boat owner , if you never expect anything , you are never disappointed and sometimes pleasantly surprised. Good topic though. There are a million scenarios and circumstances under which you may be expected to chip in , hope you'll chip in , not expected to chip in and insulting for even offering to chip in. |
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Always offer to help. I fish with Stiff-tip and tuna chasing can get quite expensive so we always split the bill 3 ways. No of us are rich men and we acknowledge that fact. We all get to enjoy the day, we all enjoy the experience and so we should bear the cost equally.
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I fish with my wife and 3 kids 90% of the time so it is usually not an issue, ( I tried to get my wife to pony up once but that did'nt work out so welll) But when I take the guys out I never ask. I have been fortunate enough that my guests kick in on their own or buy the supplies we need for the trip
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Didn't know about the chipping-in for costs ruling, but I do know that not all vessels have to be inspected. This is why the "six-pack" lic or Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessels (OUPV), is so popular with most charter captains. It is pretty easy to get but it has its limits.
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